[What's the right magazine for Shadow 2?]

A new SP-01 manual safety will come with two 19rd magazines that are different than the 3 MecGar 17rd tubes that come with a Shadow 2.  The magazines are interchangeable but if you plan to run aftermarket baseplates or extensions on them you will want the MecGar 17rd mags and not the CZ ones that come with the SP-01.  The tubes are longer on the CZ mags and wont fit flush with the grip base if using an extension or aftermarket baseplate.  IMO the MecGar mags are nicer than the CZ ones.

[Dies for my new Dillon XL750?]

How are you making out did you find any primers?

 

[How short OAL for CZ shadow?]

13 hours ago, belus said:

That previous thread on we both read was also on an auto-indexing press, it just happened to be made by Lee.  You only need to move the handle a couple inches to double charge and it usually happens while you're distracted trying to trouble shoot something else.  It's definitely easy to do. I haven't double charged on a 650/750, but I have made a couple squibs. I think it's a disservice to new reloaders to recommend auto-indexing presses under the guess of them being safer or foolproof.  In contrast, I've never created a squib or a double charge on the 550.

Your first dozen or two rounds should probably only have one case on the shell plate at a time if you're just starting.

I went back and re-read mos of that thread since I read it before I decided I was going to get into reloading.  I went out and checked my Dillon and yeah if you only pull the handle 1/3 of the way it can reset and double charge.  Thanks for the advice and I will probably only load one at a time on the shell plate.  I may switch to N320 too, it seems to have good reviews and cleaner than TG plus much harder to double charge.

[How short OAL for CZ shadow?]

16 hours ago, belus said:

 

I think you might already be at minor PF with 3.2 of Titegroup behind a 147gr. I would't load higher than that until you've chronoed it, but I also think 3.2gr at 1.08" will be fine. I haven't worked up a load with Titegroup yet because I have some other powder to burn through first, though I expect to use 3.0gr in my final load with a 147 coated bullet.

Since you're also new to reloading in general, be very careful. Titegroup is easy to double charge and a couple months ago we went through a saga on these forums after a new reloader blew up his gun.

 

What press are you loading on?

I would generally discourage someone from starting to reload with Titegroup. If you can swing a pound of Universal, Unique, 700X, Win 321, or Red Dot at a local store that might be a safer introduction. Could be tough to find in this environment though.

Here's the thread from a guy who blew up his X5 with a double charge of TG on a Lee press. His load was 3.0 of TG and a 147gr.  The first reply correctly predicts he was double charging cases and not noticing it.

 

Yeah, I read that post and his situation is very similar to mine.  I was perfectly happy buying Fed Syntech!!!

 

I am aware of the issues and thought about getting a different powder to start but already have the TG and it has been difficult to even find some of the other powders.  I am loading on a new Dillon XL750 I posted a pic in my thread on asking advice. 

 

Honestly, I dont see how you can even double charge a round on an auto indexing progressive press?  I plan to go slow and watch everything and individually feed the bullets.  I am planning to only run 100 rounds to start and I am going to weigh, measure and case gauge all of them.

[How short OAL for CZ shadow?]

18 hours ago, 4n2t0 said:

 

I understand your nervousness as a new loader, we were all there once. Try to stick with published data whenever possible but sometimes, like in your case, published data from the powder manufacturer doesn't exist for your bullet weight and construction (Titegroup+147gr lead/coated lead bullet). When this happens I reference several manuals and or collect as much information from the web as possible and start with the general consensus charge. When trying to duplicate a load bullet weight and construction matter most. For instance; from my previous example you can assume that any 147gr FMJ loaded with 3.6gr of Titegroup will produce similar velocities when fired from a 4" barrel. Why? Because the bullet weight (147gr), construction (FMJ) and barrel length (4") are all the same. The ogive of the bullet, barrel and magazine all potentially affect the OAL so that figure should always be determined on your own (as you did by following Wobbly's post).

 

P.S. Darrell's data might come in handy (147gr coated lead w/ Titegroup).

 

 

Thanks yes Darrell's (?) data is very handy!  I hope to get a few rounds loaded this weekend and appreciate the advice.

[Advice at getting started in these difficult times!]

Thanks Muncie21, I do plan to chrono the rounds but I dont have one currently.  I have a 3gun match tomorrow and was hoping to have a few rounds done to take with me to test and chrono since they will have one there but my schedule isnt going to allow that to happen today. 

 

I did get my presses mounted and the Dillon mostly set up on a bench in my garage/shop.  I may build a dedicated reloading room in my basement this winter.

 

I have to install the dies and adjust them.  I am using Lee dies since the Dillon ones have been on BO for awhile now.  I just read somewhere that the Lee dies can be a little short for the Dillon 650 but there is a work around with mounting it, I think it is mostly the bullet seating die that can be an issue.

 

My plan is to run 100 rounds at 1.08 OAL 3.2g TG and 147g Coated BBI.  I am going to measure, weigh and run them all through the Hundo case gauge then go and shoot them.  Hopefully it all goes well.

[How short OAL for CZ shadow?]

1 hour ago, 4n2t0 said:

 

It doesn't matter that 1.08 is LESS than the cited OAL if that information is useless. What happens if you find data that lists a shorter tested length? Which length would you choose then? As an example only: I load a 147gr FMJ to 1.08 over 3.6gr (max) of Titegroup (130 PF from 4" barrel). Hogdon's data applies more directly to my situation but I still ignored the OAL. No reputably published data will make your $hit explode because you shortened the OAL to fit your barrel. Lead data for lead/coated lead bullets, FMJ data for FMJ/plated bullets.

 

Also, wouldn't it be easier to search this forum for 147+coated+Titegroup instead of trying to mathematically reduce your charge in relationship to the OAL while extrapolating coated lead charge weights from FMJ data? lol.

 

You're over thinking this. Load to the max determined OAL using suggested charge weights for a lead/coated lead 147gr bullet and chrono you test loads to confirm velocity.

Awesome thanks I am just going to start with the 3.2 then.  I am new and trying to understand also, from what I was reading in Wobbly thread there was some formula for figuring out load vs OAL if you change it.   BTW I did search that and there are a bunch of threads but nobody mentioned a specific load with a OAL less than 1.10 a few talked about it but didnt say what they ended up using.  Thanks for sharing what you are loading with 1.08.

 

 

[How short OAL for CZ shadow?]

11 minutes ago, 4n2t0 said:

 

 

Thanks, I did NOT measure factory rounds in my barrel.  My measurements are using the Bullet I plan to load using Wobbly's push method in the chamber of the gun I plan to use.  I have a 1.080 OAL according to the method Wobbly described and I am asking if someone can tell me how to figure out were to start with Titegroup since 1.080 is LESS than the 1.010 that is cited in all the load data I have found on Titegroup.

 

Apparently there is a formula out there that requires 6th grade algebra but I can't seem to find it anywhere?

[How short OAL for CZ shadow?]

On 3/7/2019 at 1:29 AM, Darrell said:

I load Bayou 135's at 1.130 in all my CZ's, I have to load the 105's at 1.030, and my 124 PD JHP at 1.080

I am getting ready to load my first 9mm rounds on my new press for my Shadow 2.  I did Wobbly's push test and I am coming up with 1.092-1.097 so I am going to go with 1.080 OAL to be safe.  I am using a 147g coated truncated nose bullet from BBI.  Is there a way to calculate powder load for a shorter than listed OAL?  I am using Titegroup powder which according to Hogdgons load data 147g bullet at 1.010 is 3.2 grains for the low side.  Should I start there or lower at 3.0? 

[Advice at getting started in these difficult times!]

3 hours ago, 4n2t0 said:

Bullet profile affects the OAL. Measuring a factory round is useless because you aren't loading those components. Under a coated 147gr bullet 3.0gr-3.2gr of Titegroup should make minor. Load to the max determined OAL.

 

 

 

 

The bullet and casing I have in the pic with the calipers is the bullet I plan to load in an already fired case that I fit to the chamber of the barrel in my S2 using the method that Wobbly described in the CZ thread I posted a link to.  I just measured factory rounds to see what they measured for comparison.

 

I checked it again and 1.092-.097 seems to be what I am getting the majority of times.  So back that off .015 for clearance and would be 1.080 to be safe place to start?  Using 1.080 with 3.2grains of titegroup should be a good starting point for me then or should I start with 3.0 grains with that short of a OAL?

 

Thanks

[Advice at getting started in these difficult times!]

Well I keep watching youtube and reading the forums and coming up with more questions lol!

 

Everything should be here this week, I do have all the materials and my 750 should be here today according to UPS.  I still have to set everything up and decide where I want to put it all.

 

I am trying to decide on a loading recipe to start with so determining OAL seems like the right place to start.  I found this posted and has some pretty good information in it from Wobbly the moderator over there.

https://czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=34225.0

 

 

I followed the directions to determine MAX chamber length in my S2 with the BBI 147g bullets I bought and come up with 1.092-1.101 with the 3-4 times I tested it.  I also plunk tested two factory rounds I have used extensively in the gun 115g Blazer and 135g Fedsyntech.  Both fit the chamber with no issues and measured 1.15 for 115g Blazer and 1.12 for the Syntech.  I am guessing the flat nose of the 147g is the reason for the shorter 1.09 length I am getting with pushing the bullet into the case to get a max measurement?

 

So if my max chamber length with the BBI bullet is 1.10 that would give me a max loading OAL of 1.085 or lets say 1.080 to be safe?

 

So using Titegroup with Hogdgon load data they give 1.10 COL with 147g Hornady XTP and 3.2grains as low side and 3.6 as high side.  But what do I go by for 1.080 with a BBI bullet?

 

That seems tight, should I have the chamber reamed to allow for a 1.10 OAL with this bullet when a 1.15 115g FMJ fits with zero issues?

 

 

[Recent bullet orders]

My BBI order showed up yesterday.  Thank you Chandler for the update and excellent customer service with the difficult issue you've been dealt with USPS.  Hope they get it sorted out.

[What are your shooting goals for the next 12 months?]

My goal is to get reloading room setup so I have ammo to shoot next year.  That is of course if I can find primers.

 

I am new this year and have so many things to work on its almost overwhelming. 

[Advice at getting started in these difficult times!]

Thanks that Vibra-prime is a must have

 

I have been using the MTM 30 cal ammo cans and they hold around 4-500 rounds of 9mm or 223 with no issues and seem pretty durable.

 

From what I can tell the 50cal ammo can will hold 10 P-100 ammo cases which should also work with the Hundo case gauge.  MTM sells the ACC9 as a combo kit https://www.mtmcase-gard.com/products/shooting/ammo-can-combo.php

 

I just ordered one from Midway.

[Advice at getting started in these difficult times!]

Thanks for the replies

 

SJBriggs, thanks for advice One Shot will be here Monday

Stick, Dillon press is ordered and I got shipping notification so hope to have it early next week.  I was happy I could find a 9mm press available somewhere!

amada8, Hundo is on order and should ship next week. 

 

I also picked up some MTM ammo storage containers, a primer flip tray, inline LED light since I am old and blind, a bullet puller and some extra arco bins blue of course lol.

 

A quick calculation of my equipment costs is going to be roughly $1900 and that's counting everything.  To load my first 1k rounds of 9mm I am going to have .065 cents per primer, .067 per bullet, .05 per case and .02 for powder for a little over 20 cents/round.  With the going rate of .65 cents a round right now I will be saving $450 on that first 1k rounds.  At that rate it is not going to take me long to recover my investment!!

 

Even if I buy small pistol primers on GB which I can get for $640 for 5k.  That would be .13/primer and I'm still only at .33 cent/round which is way cheaper than you can currently buy it if you can even find it. 

 

But most importantly I will have ammo and can keep shooting!

 

 

[Recent bullet orders]

I ordered from BBI on August 21 and USPS still shows the package is stuck in TN.

[Upgrade Glock Trigger or Buy A New Pistol?]

I like Glocks and have a few and to be honest for home defense or EDC they are tough to beat, simple guns that always go bang.  For 3 gun I use Shadow 2 and couldn't be happier.  Sights are better, trigger is fantastic low recoil heavy wt gun and ready to go right out of the box. IMO you get a lot for the money with a CZ and a Glock trigger will never be as nice or smooth as the trigger on a CZ.

[SP-01 CZC Carry Optics build]

2 hours ago, GrumpyOne said:

Yeah? 

lol!

[Advice at getting started in these difficult times!]

I am moving forward and finally have most of what I need to load both 9mm and .223 from a material and equipment point.  I just purchased a press, dies and most of what I need to set up a reloading room.

 

Here is what I purchased so far for equipment:

I broke down and went Dillon XK750 for 9mm

Dillon casefeeder

Dillon small pistol case feeder plate

Dillon Strong mount and roller handle and bullet tray (I am following advice and waiting on getting a bullet feeder)

Lee 9mm 4 die set

Digital scale and calipers I already have, Mitotoyo

Lee .223 4 piece die set

Lee Deluxe APP press

Lee 223 Pocket Swage kit

MSSS, tumbler and brass cleaning kit

 

Materials:

For 9mm

Black Bullets coated 9mm 147g lost in election postal service hell

9mm once fired polished brass from Precision brass

Titegroup powder

CCI BR-4 Small rifle primers

I still plan to order a Hundo 9mm gauge case and MTM storage case for 9mm from BSPS.

 

For 223

500 55g Everglades 223 FMJ

250 77g Nosler HPBT

Once fired polished brass from Precision Brass with crimps

H355 powder

CCI #450 Small rifle Magnum primers

I am planning to order a Triway Giraurd Trimmer.  I will also need another small rifle case feeder plate, toolhead caliber conversion kit and powder charge from Dillon to load 223

 

I broke down on getting the Dillon as money was only real issue while quality and performance is better even slightly in every review I have seen. Is Dillon worth the extra $$ probably not BUT my time is and in the end I can afford it and plan to be doing this for awhile.

 

Getting materials is a real issue.  I seemed to be able to acquire 223 stuff easier. Ironically I got 1k rounds of PMC Bronze 223 delivered yesterday from a BO I placed back in May for .34/round!  I am sure XM193 will once again be cheap and I am happy to buy it and use it but would like the option of loading better quality ammo where it seems the real savings in 223 comes in, processing the brass seems to be a lot of work and why I got an APP press.

 

I REALLY need 9mm and currently do not have enough to get through this season and still practice.  I dont want to be in this situation in the future so loading 9mm in volume is going to be a necessity even when times get better.   I have 1k SMR CCI BR-4 primers I am going to use for a 9mm load.  I am going to try loading the rounds at a higher Power factor 130-135 and consider trying Markcon primer sealant in the primer pocket to mitigate the issue with breech face erosion with lower PF rounds and small rifle primers.

 

Thanks for all the info provided so far it has been very helpful.

 

 

 

[SP-01 CZC Carry Optics build]

11 hours ago, Matt1911 said:

Changing that hook trigger out for the older style 85 trigger made a huge difference for me on my SP-01

Yeah, I can't wait I think the SP-01 with the relocated 85 trigger is going to fit well and the big window SRO dot is going to work well with my old blind eyes!

[SP-01 CZC Carry Optics build]

18 hours ago, terrapin said:

I bought an amazing custom hard chrome SP01 AccuShadow 1 with the full Cajun trigger system. Custom milled for the Sig Romeo. Man I wanted to love that gun.... unfortunately, I simply shoot my S2 carry optic gun better.

I think once I get motivated, I’ll sell it and just buy another S2 and top it with an SRO. Keep one for backup and dry fire, and compete with the other.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Lol, I am worried about that myself, but then again this is post #51 and I can sell it in the classifieds now if I dont like it!

[SP-01 CZC Carry Optics build]

18 hours ago, Truckin_Thumper said:

I do. 
While I do like my SRO, and I have 3 of them, I am not convinced they are any better than a Holosun. 

One out of the 3 SROs I have is getting shipped back. The other 2 work pretty good. 

I also have 3 or so 407Cs. 
All 2 MOA. One is on the back up CO gun. 
So two identical pistols. Also on some other gaming  long guns. 

No one can convince me why should I not buy or recommend the Holosun. 

I think they are on par with each other. Holosun wins hands down just on cost. 
I can buy 2 407 for less than a single SRO. 
So, I may never buy another Trijicon product again. These SROs were the first and may just be the last. 
Not bashing them, but at those prices, its just too much when your competitor has something equal or better for 1/2 the cost. 

Thats just my opinion, which may not count for much, but it is what it is....LOL  

Thanks for the feedback I am not married to the SRO idea.  I have a RMR on a Glock and like the battery life and durability.  BTW what finish did you use on your gun, nice job BTW

 

[SP-01 CZC Carry Optics build]

I just received my SRO from Primary Arms. I can't wait to get the gun back I just hope I still have enough ammo left to go shoot it!!

[Rifle Primers in Pistol Loads --- Reliability]

Would something like Markron primer sealant mitigate that problem some?

[Advice at getting started in these difficult times!]

Forget it I see it the 1100 is an 8 station press and the 750 is a 5 station.  If I am using the Lee APP for brass processing I will be fine with the 750.