IVC
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Posts posted by IVC
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1 hour ago, pjb45 said:
Troy's action reflect upon USPSA organization, its members and guess what its vendors. What vendor wants to contribution to a public relations disaster.
While true, the income breakdown shows advertising fees are just over 10% of the overall revenue. Membership dues and activity fees are still the primary driver at over 80% of the revenue.
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14 minutes ago, BritinUSA said:
That was back when the leadership loved the sport, now I think they just love the money.
Here's a link to the latest financial statements, accessible by all members. There isn't that much to go around on a 2.8M revenue, especially given that it's large enough organization that it requires a few people to run it.
But I would agree with opinions here that non-nominal salaries tend to create less than desirable dynamics. Similar to our political system.
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1 hour ago, RJH said:
So, basically you're saying USPSA is only useful if you're worried about classification.
...
I have a feeling as soon as pscl develops some sort of small classification system, USPSA will wither rapidly.
Seems like we are saying the same thing. Multi-gun pretty much proves it.
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1 hour ago, 124gr9mm said:
I think the point is that the 'lapsed' members are still participating in the activity. They likely feel that 'voting' and waiting for change to happen is a fool's errand, so they take a more drastic approach and impact the revenue stream.
So they are replacing something they believe has no impact with something that measurably has no impact. And expect things to change... SMH.
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11 minutes ago, BMSMB said:
Where did they say they were quiting? They let their membership lapse. Can still shoot local matches while sending a message to the org that this nonsense needs to stop.
I was responding to the one guy, but you're right, there were several of them. All quitting. "Lapsing membership" is a euphemism for quitting the organization. It means no longer being a member...
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1 hour ago, echotango said:
I actually did vote. Even for the runoff and Production 15.
Why? You're quitting, you're done. If your ex wife told you how to live, would you listen just because the divorce isn't finalized?
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11 hours ago, RJH said:
So if the shooting will go on mostly unaffected, why give USPSA three bucks a shooter when you could do something like pscl for free?
That's a valid question. Clubs are free to do it, much like they are free to use any local format for free.
My take is that you give a few buck to the USPSA to keep track of your classifiers and to use the existing rule book, so you have consistency no matter what club it is. At the higher level, you give it a few bucks to have L2-Nationals competition. For international competition, it's IPSC anyways.
The PSCL you mention is exactly what an arbitrary local match looks like. The rules are "borrowed" from any number of organizations and can be modified to match the local ethos. No affiliation, no classifiers, no membership. The biggest benefit of running unaffiliated is, I guess, that nobody can quit in protest if Max doesn't file his paperwork with the state on time. It's just "don't let the door hit you on the way out" goodbye, and you continue using the same rules for free while Max deals with catching up on administrative tasks.
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10 minutes ago, moose97 said:
Remind me again when the next vote for DNROI is...
We vote for the board and the board can make the change.
But the big picture is this. Local clubs run everything, from stage design to bringing in new shooters. The USPSA fees are nominal and what happens at the HQ has little to no bearing on where the actual shooting happens, which is at the local level. I would like to clean it all up, that's would be my OCD side, but in the end, whatever happens with the organization, most of the shooting will be minimally affected. So, whether we are upset or not, the show will go on, mostly unaffected.
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1 hour ago, sc68cal said:
Because you can still shoot a USPSA match without being a member of USPSA. You can still have an opinion about how USPSA is managed, without being a member. You are gatekeeping
Of course you can. But if you're not a member, the opinion doesn't matter. Not to mention the hypocrisy of claiming not to give money to an organization only to pay the fee to participate in their events. I mean, if I'm boycotting McDonald's, I should go to Burger King, not visit their drive-through on the sly...
For those who didn't renew, what are they going to do about it? They are already out. Are they going to quit again if nothing changes? Or stomp their feet? The only way to make a change is to work on the change. Leaving is not working on the change. If we need votes to make a change, are we going to ask members to vote, or are we going to ask former members to give us their opinion?
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2 hours ago, r4ptor said:
As a European IPSC shooter I can only say: "the f is going on over there"
Kind of baffling the whole series of events.
Unfortunately, if you look at the timeline, we are talking about many years, closer to a decade. The real question is why so many members didn't know what's been going on here or chose not to pay attention until now.
And it's not all bad, the way it comes out in forums. USPSA doesn't have structural problems or problems with the product. It's the personnel and management that need to be sorted out. Even if USPSA runs out of all the money, it's the local clubs that run the matches, own props, set up stages and attract shooters. As long as there is an umbrella organization that provides rules and keeps classification system, everything will be fine. And it takes very little to have that.
We just need to clean up our house...
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17 minutes ago, echotango said:
That is the new typical attitude. Not surprised. And why things will never get better.
The things will get better when we hold our representatives accountable. When we put the time and effort to change the organization. Quitting doesn't change anything. It's just quitting.
I can talk to Leighton, who is my AD, and voice my concerns. I can also vote for him or someone running against him if he ignores me. And I can talk to my fellow USPSA members and we can all vote to make a change. I voted in the recent elections, you didn't. Our local clubs can decide to align with IDPA instead if this is too much. There are options. But if the clubs associate with the IDPA, they are done with the USPSA and everyone is happy. Or at least should be.
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19 minutes ago, sc68cal said:
Non-members still have a stake in this because their local club activity fees and classifier fees get paid to USPSA HQ.
You need to be more respectful
Why would he attend a USPSA-sanctioned match? What's wrong with local outlaw matches, IDPA, ICORE, SASS and others? That's the way to send the message, by shopping the competition, no?
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5 minutes ago, rowdyb said:
This is what happens when you get more than a token salary and have zero oversight.
^^^ Bingo.
Another part is that once the organization grows, the standard of behavior changes. The frat stuff at L1 matches works, but it's also where it ends.
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To clarify...
I'm not saying that the person writing the letter is right, only that Troy is wrong. It's a bit fishy to admit upfront that the writer "shared some information on the inner workings and finances happening at the org." That's not confidence inspiring that the social media post in question was based on public knowledge and was only criticizing the organization. It looks much more like divulging of privileged information which is sanctionable in any corporation as one of the most serious offenses against the organization.
But regardless of what the post was or whether the person was right or wrong with regard to the information, the response must be professional, which it wasn't. The venue, the language and everything else was unacceptable, no matter what the person did.
So, let's see if Troy follows up the same way he did against YML, as he should. If he does, it will restore confidence into the top management. If not, well, then we have a legitimate gripe about double standards.
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1 hour ago, EarlKeese said:
He should at a minimum decertify himself.
^^^ This.
Let's see how the BOD handles this. But at least it seems that most of us agree that this type of behavior at the top level of the organization must stop.
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35 minutes ago, echotango said:
He is part of the Elite. Nothing will happen. I am not a fan of him. I let my membership expire Sept 1st for reasons like this and others.
Then this is no longer your concern. It's like quitting a job - once you're out, it's no longer your problem.
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There is another thread, just posted a few minutes back, about Troy.
Should he be disciplined? I'll go first - yes.
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1 hour ago, Racinready300ex said:
Because there are different stories out there many people are voting for him and seeing as a way to show their discontent with leadership and the handling of the situation.
That's brilliant! Vote for the inappropriate part of leadership to show the rest of the leadership you won't tolerate bad behavior by the leadership so you can blame leadership for the state of the organization. Oh, wait...
Can't wait to be able to call Deltas "dicks" at major matches. I also have a few ideas about what to call Charlies, along the same lines, to appease the gender equality crowd who would claim it's not fair to use only male genitalia references.
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1 hour ago, BMSMB said:
It's odd that you say the people on here know what happened...
55 minutes ago, Racinready300ex said:And the BOD made this situation worse. Possibly intentionally.
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Which story is accurate we can't really know.
This happened on the heels of a sexual harassment lawsuit, it was the president himself, it happened at a major match and we do know about both dry-humping and the inappropriate language (calling "deltas" "dicks" and maybe more). The remedy was from Troy at NROI, not from the BOD.
And the BOD are the bad guys... Again. Right?
They give a pass to a guy without discipline for inappropriate sexual language, the organization gets sued. They discipline a guy, the president no less, for inappropriate sexual language *and* conduct, some members call for their heads. They discipline another guy for leaking communication to hostile third parties, they get sued and we end up with this apologist thread. Well, which one is it? Discipline or try to burry it?
I'll start. It was a bad mistake to let the first one slip, they should've acted and kicked the guy out. The other two are about right. They offered remedial action in the second case and that offer was rejected. The third case should allow for readmittance in the future, but that's still on the table. As for the role of the BOD, I would really like us to press them to clean up the technical issues, fire whoever messed up with the filings, make sure they hire people with basic competency to go through legal checklists. Do this and we can all go back to shooting.
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1 hour ago, BMSMB said:
That's it? Not stuff like ensuring the corporation actually exists in the state it's supposed to be incorporated in? Not ensuring the org staff act in a professional manner instead of going and screaming at volunteers about what they post on social media? Not losing $800k in a year... I could go on, but I dont want this thread to get locked.
You're correct, those need to get fixed, those are part of running the business. I was talking about the ethos of the board and "cleaning up the house." What you write about is embarrassing and must be sorted out, that's for sure. The current board should be able to take care of it after they put out all the unnecessary fires that have been sprouting due to the issues with the personnel. And if they can't, we all vote, right?
Just remember that YML is the runoff election for the president, dry-humping and all. What does that say about the members being serious about cleaning up the house and holding the management in check?
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40 minutes ago, BritinUSA said:
Do you know this for a fact? Has this been proven, that he directly involved anti-gun groups during the Cameo situation ?
Mainstream media is anti-gun. There was enough "noise" that it escalated way beyond private communication and into public domain. That's the whole issue with stopping document exchange and alike. It was leaked and disclosed.
There are some fixes that should be done at the top level, but it's mostly political stuff, smoother reactions, clearer communications, etc.
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50 minutes ago, Rob Boudrie said:
Writ of Mandamus
Made of "unobtanium." We've been trying to get the Supreme Court to issue writ of mandamus for a slew of civil rights gun cases sitting in the 9th Circuit, never happened. A writ of mandamus in a basic civil case is likely unheard of.
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4 hours ago, Dutchman195 said:
The smart move would be to address it head on.
What really will happen is they'll say nothing and I would guess if asked in person or a direct email you'll get a response that says "Its being fixed"
Of course, and it must be addressed. It's up to us, members, to force the cleanup. It's a small enough community and we are dealing with fellow shooters and reasonable people.
But the BOD is in a tough position because everyone whines no matter what they do. I believe they are cleaning up the house and that we will see things get in order. However, look at what's been going on. There was one president who ended up in juvenile exchanges with a top shooter, even if the shooter was a pest and juvenile himself. He got ousted because it was unacceptable behavior for a president. Then we had a "situation" with the female employee that resulted in a lawsuit, a disgusting treatment of her, no question. Completely unacceptable, but not the fault of the BOD, it was individuals who lacked any common sense and the BOD had to clean up the mess. Next, another president does beyond juvenile acts such as dry-humping and using vulgar language to call Deltas, he gets dinged by the NROI, and a bunch of internet commandos call the BOD pariahs for taking action, no less on the heels of a sexual harassment lawsuit. And these are all people elected by the members. Where is accountability by the members who voted for those who misbehaved later?
Fast forward to this issue, there is a member bringing all sorts of anti-gunners into the mix in order to get his way, he gets dinged, and the BOD are the bad guys again.
None of these issues are isolated incidents nor do they exist in a vacuum. The BOD needs to clean up their act, mostly to get their personalities in check and start acting like they are part of a serious, large and growing organization. They also need to take care of the mundane corporate task. But they also face sheer stupidity. I mean, dry-humping by the president and an RO?? Along the way, as the organization is being cleaned up, everyone seems to cry foul as changes are made and everyone seems to blame the BOD no matter what happens.
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25 minutes ago, BritinUSA said:
If we perform a root-cause analysis of this situation, it would show that the originating cause was the decision to hold the Nationals at Cameo; Everything that followed..., the bad press, last minute change of venue, suspensions (not only of Joe, but others) were all a direct result of the Cameo decision.
That decision was solely in the hands of the defendants.
We agree on that, it was all a direct result of the Cameo decision. Still, it doesn't make it wrong by itself since the suspensions process is documented in the bylaws and it gives the BOD wide latitude. This is by design, that is how the control of any corporation is exercised.
JP GMR 15 Load, Changing Bullets
in 9mm/38 Caliber
Posted
Ugh, I'll check it out. I have several different magazines and extensions. Don't like the idea of loading to the magazine dimensions, especially if it's just the extension. Messing with the OAL will change the internal pressure and, in case of a PCC, might affect accuracy by changing the bullet jump. But if there is a feeding problem, I'll have to address it.
The magazine I'm using for testing is a BMX all metal magazine. That one will likely feed everything, much like their .40 magazines easily feed my 1.200" Limited major loads. But the stock Glock magazines, and especially the extensions... ugh again.
Thanks for the heads up, I'll check it out.