IVC
-
Posts
1,170 -
Joined
-
Last visited
Content Type
Forums
Profiles
Events
Store
Posts posted by IVC
-
-
Not sure why "killing Revo" keeps popping up - there is no downside to low participation divisions.
It's the same course of fire and nothing changes in a match if someone shoots [pick any division you hate]. Having more divisions just gives people more room to play. As long as we have the same power factors and scoring, who cares?
-
You don't zero at the "distance you'll shoot at." You zero at the distance that gives you the maximum point-blank range. What you want to have is no holdovers at any practical distance, that's about it.
For pistols, the most common mistake is to zero at close range, say 10 yards. Even 15 is pushing it. Because of the sights offset, particularly with optics, if you zero at 10 yards you'll be 4x the offset high at 50 yards. And there is no benefit - if you zero at 25 (or even 50), you have no holdover at 10/15 and you're set for *all* distances. You might be 1/2" low at 10, but in exchange you can shoot any distance by pointing and shooting.
For rifles you have a bit more decision to make. This is because rifles are normally used for larger distances and you have to decide how you want to use it. In a typical *combat* match, you'll pick something that works for the types of matches you shoot. The usual 50/200 is great for anything within 300 yards, but you'll be high at 100 and that's the distance that is often used in matches because of the bay limitations. If you need to be closer at 100, you might want to pick a different zero. As pointed above, use a calculator and figure out which zero works for your rifle and your matches.
For rifles, and outside 200-300 yards, you should have your DOPE table and either dial it in, or use the correct tick in the reticle. In fact, if you know your DOPE (and you should), you can dial in ANY zero combination at any time.
My personal distances are: pistols 25 yards, PCC 50 yards, ARs 75/150 (for the load that I use and just one type of AR match that I shoot).
-
On 1/11/2024 at 3:35 AM, Sarge said:
I don’t think laying them on the ground or “here and there”, is what we’re talking about.
10 hours ago, JonasAberg said:"... finding a place along the side berm..."
in the original post just sounded kinda random to me.If the PCC is left uncased it's either in the rack, on conveyance, or dropped ("on the ground"). Putting it on a bag or any other pile doesn't change the nature of the "storage condition" of the PCC. Same as handgun - if it's on a bag that is on the ground, it's still considered "dropped."
I'm with Jonas, it's "kinda random." But either way, there are rules about how PCC can be stored, how it can be transported and how it can be picked up.
-
Maybe I give it another try, especially since I do use Federals for Revo and have recently picked up a batch of small rifle CCI-s for 223.
But with WSP I have a quick hack that enables me to load up tubes in less than a minute. The way they are packed is "shiny side up" so all I need to do is ensure I can do two flips onto the tray. The first one is easy, all primers end up on a square lattice, but upside down. The second one is the one that requires a trick - if I just flip the tray, primers will move and bunch up. But, I now use a paper towel cut to the size of the flip tray lid (folded twice) on the initial flip so primers end up on the paper towel. When I close the tray, the paper towel provides springy force that keeps primers in place, so when I do the second flip I end up with the perfect lattice of primers ready to pick up. I just lift the paper towel and pick them up. Very fast, no frustration, works every time. Load about 15 tubes and off I go to monkeying the handle on the 1050...
-
3 hours ago, Boomstick303 said:
I am interested in the new one, but my Primer Pro runs like a top.
Which primers? It couldn't fill a single tube of WSP for me, no matter how much I tried to adjust it...
-
The only part from DAA that consistently didn't work was their "primer systems." Even this one seems to address the problems that don't exist and not address the problems that do - jamming around the drop chute. The collator version, which I own (it's on the shelf, not usable), jammed at the drop point. The problem wasn't upside down primers, not flipping them, or even primers getting stuck in some pickup sites, the problem was primers not dropping.
If anyone is interested, I have Dillon primer filler and two versions of DAA primer systems for sale... cheap. Lol. I'm back to manual pickup for running a manual 1050 and not looking back. Until there is a proper collator system that works for automated presses I'm not switching.
-
"Confirming" means that what you see in dry fire is the correct thing to see.
In other words, what the dry-fire lacks is the confirmation of the acceptable sight picture (ASP), correct trigger pull (TP) and sufficient follow-through (FT). You must provide these elements of technique as a conscious and honest input into your dry-fire. It's not really that people are dishonest in dry fire, it's more that they don't know whether the combination of ASP-TP-FT is good enough to match the live fire.
When you "confirm" your dry-fire, you shoot the same way as you would in a dry-fire session and you make sure that the shots are where you called them. Nothing more and nothing less. If the shot is where you made the mental picture of it, and if it's at the same speed as dry-fire, you're done.
-
13 hours ago, Superkaratemonkeyfighter said:
If a rule is originally created for safety how is there ever an exception to it !
There isn't an exception in the safety sense, it's adaptation of rules to the addition of rifles to a pistol match.
Much like PCCs can be carried in hand where pistols can't, there are similar rifle-specific rules that work for rifles but not for pistols. For those of us who are not grumpy about it it's not a safety violation or exception.
-
1 minute ago, broadside72 said:
I am not talking about "at the moment" or being able to carry then in around in the hand but a change in rules to allow you to point your handgun at the berm while removing it from your bag or holster and directly placing it in the other since it is technically no different than what you can do with a PCC.
Sure USPSA could change the rules this way, modify parts of section 10.5.x, and allow holstering of guns at the berm. But I would vote against such a change, as would many others. I would vote for "no berm exception for PCC" way before voting for extending handgun handling outside the safety areas. In fact, USPSA has been *strengthening* safety area requirements over the years, adding requirements for boundaries and alike.
-
On 12/25/2023 at 9:49 PM, Keyst0ne said:
there is no time limit on 5.2.1.7, and the term "abandon" or "abandoned" doesn't appear in the rules anywhere. Is this practice against the rules in any way? Can anyone point me to a rule I'm not taking into account?
DQ under 10.5.14 would be the rule preventing you from coming back to the horizontal PCC if it was on the ground. Correctable 5.2.1.4 if it was on the cart.
Neither 5.2.17 nor abandoning apply once you leave. Former because you're no longer casing/uncasing (the gun is uncased and *not* under your control), latter because it's a multi-gun term for actions during a COF.
-
3 hours ago, Keyst0ne said:
What are the rules on storing a flagged and uncased PCC?
I would say 5.2.1.4 and 10.5.14.
Leaving uncased PCC at the berm is either storage, which requires it to be vertical (ok to leave it on your cart), or it's a dropped gun and it's a DQ if you pick it up, even if close to the berm (must be picked up by an RO).
So, if you uncase PCC and leave it pointing to the berm, you can't pick it up later because you're NOT "casing/uncasing at the berm" at the time you're picking it up, which are the only actions allowed. You're picking up a dropped gun. But if you place it on your cart or any similar "rack" AND you keep it vertical, then you can retrieve it and carry it around with no issues.
-
1 hour ago, broadside72 said:
What is the difference from me pulling my pistol out of the case safely and directly putting it in my holster versus pulling a PCC out of case and pointing the muzzle reasonably vertically and walking around? Here's a hint: here isn't any
The difference is that the moment you hold your handgun outside the case it's a DQ because you're never allowed to have it in your hand (unsupervised, outside the safety area), while with PCC the moment you take the bag off you have the PCC in an allowed carry position. If you wanted to make it comparable, you would have to allow carrying of handguns in your hand with the muzzle in vertical position (the only way to avoid sweeping). Only then would the argument of "no difference" stand.
Handguns and rifles don't have the same safety profiles if carried in hand. From militaries, to law enforcement to any competitive shooting event, rifles and pistols are treated differently when it comes to "transport" and what constitutes "handling."
-
Just now, xrayfk05 said:
The rules are different, so talking about both is at least confusing.
Biggest difference, berms are off limits in IPSC.
Again, you're absolutely correct. But this is a discussion forum and *discussing* the rules is the purpose of the thread. Yes, we could all just say "look at the IPSC rules" and be done with it... But that's not what folks want to get from these threads.
-
5 hours ago, Keyst0ne said:
There is nothing wrong with safely unbagging a flagged PCC into the berm, nor is there any time limit or distance defined in the rules that would limit a shooter from arriving at a stage, dropping their case by the berm, unzipping it, and placing the PCC on top of the case with the flag visible, even if they have the entire squad ahead of them in the order.
I'm not sure I agree with this.
There is no *specified* time limit, but if you leave a PCC by the berm, you're *not* "casing/uncasing," you're "storing." It's not about abandonment, it's about plain reading of the rules - you can case/uncase at the berm, but if you want to store it, it must be according to the other rules.
-
47 minutes ago, xrayfk05 said:
I hope you can sift through all the advice regarding USPSA while your question was about IPSC.
The question in the end was indeed about IPSC, but the core of the discussion and reasoning is about the USPSA rules. The OP even starts with the *USPSA* rule 5.2.1.7, then shifts to the differences between USPSA and IPSC.
You're not technically wrong, but c'mon, it's about the uncasing of the PCCs and whether the rules are appropriate, IPSC or USPSA...
-
1 hour ago, Nolan said:
Step up to the box, at Make Ready, unbag and throw the bag on the ground behind me.
No problem, as long as the muzzle is pointed in the proscribed direction. A newbie uncasing at the line might earn himself an unintended DQ.
-
3 hours ago, Joe4d said:
If muzzle down and flagged equals holstered,, then ummm derpa derpa,,, at ULSC, you point it down and flag it, walk back to start and get you bag if needed walk to safe area and bag it.. Exact same thing a pistol shooter would do if they were bagged.
No, a pistol shooter would get DQ-ed for that. Pistol must be either holstered or bagged *before* "Range is Clear" command. PCC don't [sic].
Many ranges have one centralized safety area, far away from some stages. That's the practical problem. If every stage was required to have a safety area and it was always close by, sure - make it a requirement that PCCs are handled only at the safety areas. Note that handling still requires a berm, so it cannot be done if there is no berm.
-
4 hours ago, Blackstone45 said:
So why should PCCs different in that they can be uncased and handled at a berm? Why shouldn't a competitor be able to handle or unbag their pistol at a berm?
Because of what happens next - PCC doesn't go into holster, it's carried to the line. You can't do that with the pistol.
The question isn't why we wouldn't do that with a pistol (there is really no need, pistols are in the holster; even if they are in the bag, they can be unbagged at the line); the question is whether PCCs should be *prevented* from doing it. If so, they would have to run to the safety table as they are on deck, and they would have to go there again after scoring. This would force safety tables in many more locations, something that is not necessary when just pistol shooters are around.
-
Do you want something that is "single stage plus," or you want something that you set up, QC and then get consistent ammo out of it? In this situation, you get what you pay for, but you still get to decide what it is that you *need.*
Personally, I would go with the setup that will allow you to grow, where you can use it to process brass or load, where you don't have to perform multiple operations with one die due to limited number of available stations. Dillon 550 is certainly a very capable press, but I'm not a fan of those types of presses - if you want to produce ammo in quantity, it's not the optimal setup and the only reason to go with it is to save a few bucks upfront; if you want to go slow and one at a time, a single stage is the way to go. It's almost that it's a middle ground where it's the worst, not the best of both worlds. And it's by no means cheap after you add the missing parts.
Disclosure: My main press is 1050, but I also have a Forster Coax next to it. I considered getting a cheaper progressive to dedicate to, e.g., brass processing, but didn't find anything that would work well - a 550 gets expensive quickly when you add basic automation (case feeder, bullet feeder, etc.), while still lacking quite a bit of crucial elements compared to the 1050/1100.
-
2 hours ago, broadside72 said:
"PCC tables" are a stupid exception. PCC shooters should be required to use Safe Areas like everyone else. I can unbag my pistol at a berm just as safely as a PCC user, so why do I have to use the safe table?
When you are on deck, go uncase at the Safe Area and come back an wait or do it at Make Ready.
Two problems here. First, safety tables aren't everywhere. Second, and more importantly, PCC are allowed to be carried (not holstered/cased), so you'd be taking them *outside* the marked area in your hand, no matter what.
It's either PCCs have to be cased and uncased at the line, or they get an exception for casing/uncasing as a good compromise. Note that if there is no suitable berm, it's already the way you'd like to have it - safety table only.
-
2 hours ago, dmshozer1 said:
I have my gun in a cart,
Prior to being called to shoot it is pointed at the berm 2 yds away, flagged but not in a case.
When called to shoot, I pick the gun up and walk to the start position with the gun pointed up.
Why should there be a problem if the gun is cased and flagged?
There is no problem with *cased* and *flagged*. This is equivalent to a holstered *cold* handgun. There is also no problem with *vertical* and *flagged* for transportation, either in hand or on a cart. This is equivalent to transporting gun in a holster (but sweeping is different, as it should be - no sweeping if holstered/cased, sweeping if hand held, same as with handgun).
The question is about the "berm rule" where PCC is *handled* outside the safety table. Should this be allowed? Why not just have the same rules as for handguns, where the only allowed handling is at the safety table. The answer is that safety tables are not as readily available and that the alternative, to force PCC shooters to bring cased rifles to the starting position, is not practical.
-
One more thing... Change optics and mount. Or, use a vise and measure groups. Faulty mount or optics could be all that's going on.
-
Don't mess with the action and parts that are not directly related to accuracy. You're not fine tuning, you're trying to find a huge problem.
Do the plunk test, confirm bullets aren't hitting the rifling. While you might want to play with this later, a small gap will ensure you're not deforming the round by randomly pushing the bullets in. The inaccuracy from a large gap is order of magnitude smaller than what you're seeing, so it won't matter for what you're trying to determine.
Chrono the bullets. You want to confirm *consistency* much more than any specific velocity. Large SD will indicate problems with ammo or delay in the blowback.
Take off the flash hider, shoot without it. Confirm velocity distribution. Even if it looks like it's not the problem, you have to eliminate variables. You want bullets coming out at the same velocity and not hitting anything.
Use proven bullets such as HAPs for testing. You need to know that the bullets are consistent and not getting sheared on the way out.
Feed one round at a time, making sure you close the bolt slowly if you have a forward assist. You want to make sure rounds aren't damaged or changed during chambering.
At this time, you have to have just a barrel, chambered round and locked (closed) breech. If the breech is the problem, you should see variability in velocity. Anything other than the barrel (on both ends) and ammo is a minor issue compared to scattering at 25 yards.
-
4 hours ago, ysrracer said:
Too soon?
If that's what she said...
Meeting Agenda
in Revolver Forum
Posted · Edited by IVC
Even if it brings just one new shooter it's a net-positive. As long as it doesn't detract shooters "growth" argument is moot. As for the cost, in today's automated world it would be a stretch to say it adds *any* cost, let alone any meaningful cost. Classifiers run on their own, Nationals are like any other match where it doesn't matter if there is a Revo shooter or three, and as for trophies, c'mon, they are what, "buy dozen get half a dozen free" type of a deal at the local Costco or equivalent.
If anything, class recognition/trophies/prizes is what needs to go. Classes should be only for people to track their progress and know their standing on the journey to becoming good shooters.
EDIT: originally typed "categories" where I obviously meant "classes." Corrected now.