jakemaul

Here's how many classifier runs have been shot in each division, going back to around mid-2006... only counting cases where the full match was reported to USPSA, so there's a lot missing, but I don't think it would have much affect on the relative rankings. Restricting to only matches in 2015 doesn't change anything significantly, except PROD and LTD switch... but they're pretty close either way. | REV | 11199 | | LTDTEN | 28300 | | SS | 48551 | | OPEN | 62462 | | LTD | 114657 | | PROD | 116103 | Carry Optics obviously doesn't have enough data to rank yet. If we did want to eliminate a division, L-10 is the obvious choice. Revo is lesser shot, but is so different that those folks don't really have a good other home. L-10 shooters can shoot Lim or sometimes Prod. The USPSA world clearly "revolves" around Production and Limited, and Open barely manages to keep up with 1/2 of either one.

I have a mobile app now, currently for android (coming soon to ios, I hope) - https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.azshooters.calc It's only the classifier calculator piece, but it works offline so you can use it at a match, even without internet access.

Hmm... when folks shoot less than all 8 stages, is it always only the 2 non-classification stages (Outer Limits and Speed Option)? Or do some clubs sometimes omit other stages instead? I don't know if the rules *require* those 6 specific stages to be shot to count as a match, or if smaller ranges could legally host a 4-stage match, for example. Under the new system, AIUI, that would be allowed, but I don't know if it is now. One possibility is that instead of graphing raw times for each *match*, I could instead graph each individual stage time. That's loosely similar to what I'm doing on the USPSA Classifier graphing- graphs every classifier run, not match times. Or instead of times, I could do percentages. This again would be per-stage not per-match, because frequently (at least in my experience) there's not always enough competitors at the low-level matches in the same division to make a percentage very meaningful. In either case, not shooting one or more stages would no longer be very relevant... there would just be a missing dot. Another thought: I could do an overall graph of some sort, and then a graph for each stage (probably switched with a dropdown). Another one, maybe the best one: 2 graphs... both controlled by their own dropdowns (or radio buttons). Both graphs show individual stages, not matches. First one shows all stages, different color per stage, and the dropdown chooses which division to look at. Second one is the other way around- all divisions shown, dropdown chooses which stage.

I think I would prefer minor only. One way or another this is likely to have a lot of "budget open" shooters, and minor makes standard 9mm ammo a lot more viable. I dislike the implementation of the major/minor system in general though, because the reward for shooting major just overpowers the potential value of shooting minor. I wish the tradeoff was such that you'd have to think harder about which is better for you personally, rather that virtually everyone choosing major by default. Jake M FY86388 https://azshooters.org

My data comes from the USPSA "Match Results" pages. http://www.uspsa.org/uspsa-display-match-results-listing.php?club=CN18&club2=&year=2015 No matches shown this year for that club. However they're submitting classifier scores, they're not submitting a full match to the USPSA. That's why my site hasn't picked them up. Don't think there's any good way I can resolve this in the near future. I've considered pulling data from every shooter's individual classifier page on uspsa.org, and I may eventually fall back on that, but it's non-ideal because that doesn't have hit factor data. After I get practiscore processing working, I may have time to revisit this.

Hmm... yeah, I don't see any results for you in my database. You sure you've shot a classifier at a match/club that didn't use practiscore? Can you link me to a sample match? I might be able to figure out what went wrong and get your data imported.

Cactus combat match league shoots at Ben Avery. Practice match every Thursday starting at 5:45pm. There's a new shooters meeting, and an instructor/mentor that goes with the new shooters to every stage to walk them through it.Follows USPSA rules (except scoring, which is simplified), so it's good prep for real matches. Like rssc, you don't have to be a member to shoot. cactusmatch.com Steel Challenge is definitely a great way to start shooting real matches... Comparatively minimal mechanics to mess up (moving, reloading on the clock, no-shoot targets, etc), lots of shooting, and lots of fun. Jake M FY86388 https://azshooters.org

When I put my USPSA number in it doesn't work. Is it because I have a Life membership? Otherwise I really like the layout. It's nice seeing all the different divisions at the same time. It handles life members properly. My guess is that you've only shoot classifiers at clubs using practiscore?I don't know exactly how it happens, but sometimes practiscore matches don't upload the full match results... only the classifier data. My site doesn't see that (yet). Jake M FY86388 https://azshooters.org

I maintain a modern classifier calculator. https://azshooters.org Let me know what you think! Jake FY86388

According to these USPSA BoD meeting minutes: http://www.uspsa.org/bodminutes/20141209.pdf It appears that under the new classification system, Outer Limits (at least) *is* used for classification. I recall being told this at one point also, that those 2 stages would no longer be "special" and would count just like the other 6. However, you can be classified as soon as you shoot any 4 stages. In the current system, any stages you haven't shot will get the maximum score... so you can get classified, but it'll be terrible. In the new system, only the ones you've shot are counted. Also relevant from the same PDF: "Rimfire Rifle Divisions' Peak Times will be determined after the conclusion of the 2015 Steel Challenge" Presumably this refers to WSSC. The rimfire events for that match are scheduled to take place on November 12, so if they hold to that we won't see any official peak time data for quite a while.

Yeah, I expect my values will be a bit too high in general... if nothing else, 1 second is a long time on S&H, not quite as much on Outer Limits... I haven't taken that into account. Also, as Mtbboyz indicated a rifle might not always be faster than a pistol... or at least not as much faster as you might expect. The par times will undoubtedly drop over time- the fact that Rimfire will be treated as a first-class citizen in terms of ranking/classification means it will get more attention... more shooters, more practice, more attempts, etc.

Awesome, thanks! Those are generally pretty close to the values I chose based on RFPO. Outer Limits is the only one that I have different from yours by more than 1 second. My values are slightly higher than yours for everything except Outer Limits and Accelerator. +--------------+----------+-----------+ | stage_name | division | peak_time | +--------------+----------+-----------+ | 5 To Go | RFRO | 9.5 | | Showdown | RFRO | 7 | | Smoke & Hope | RFRO | 6.5 | | Outer Limits | RFRO | 10 | | Accelerator | RFRO | 8 | | The Pendulum | RFRO | 9 | | Speed Option | RFRO | 10 | | Roundabout | RFRO | 7 | +--------------+----------+-----------+ And here's my RFRI values. I'm suspecting these are going to be too high and will need lowered... rifle irons isn't much (if any) slower than rifle optics, at least at the distance that Steel Challenge stages are shot. Like I said whenever USPSA gets around to setting real values I'll just switch to those. +--------------+----------+-----------+ | stage_name | division | peak_time | +--------------+----------+-----------+ | 5 To Go | RFRI | 11 | | Showdown | RFRI | 8 | | Smoke & Hope | RFRI | 8 | | Outer Limits | RFRI | 12 | | Accelerator | RFRI | 9 | | The Pendulum | RFRI | 11 | | Speed Option | RFRI | 11 | | Roundabout | RFRI | 8 | +--------------+----------+-----------+

I also filled in peak values for RFRO and RFRI. Out of thin air, I decided those peak times would be 1 second less than the respective RFP* times. I'll adjust them whenever the USPSA/SCSA sets a real number.

Okay, here's what I'll do then: Anything that comes in as "Rev" (which has only happened a grand total of *3* times) I will reassign to ISR. Anything that comes in as "LTD", I will reassign to ISP. I'll leave OSR alone. This is just based on what seems more popular- ISR and ISP are far more widely used than "Rev" and "LTD". There's a bunch of other divisions that are pretty rare- SS, SSP, SGP, ESP, CDP, PI, PIRF, PRO, SSCR, etc. I'm going to leave them alone unless someone is willing to go through the full list (70 divisions... though only 20 have been used in the last 2 years) and tell me how I should combine them.

Like ksorrell said, USPSA will probably be another month. In the meantime, my site has got your stats already: https://azshooters.org/shooter?uspsa=FY77537 It doesn't calculate your actual classification, but it shows what class all of your stages fall into so you can kinda guess at it.

Question on this... do you think it's a good idea to actually remap ISR to Revolver and ISP to Limited, or should I show them separately?

Okay all... the proposed 2016 classification is shown now. Let me know if it's way off from expectations! A couple known caveats: My local club scores uses 'ISP' instead of 'LTD' for the limited division. I don't know the difference. For the time being I've just made them equal, because there's no known peak times for ISP in the new system. I'm guessing this is expected to go away entirely, leaving just the traditional USPSA divisions (open, limited, prod, SS, revo, and the rimfire ones). Rimfire Rifle peak times have not been set (RFRO and RFRI). Those divisions will be shown as "Unknown" for now. I haven't shot a Steel Challenge match with a rifle (or any kind of rimfire), so I'm not sure if that would be faster or slower. Faster maybe due to sight radius making target acquisition easier, but maybe slower due to transition time? If anyone has a guess as to what the peak times might look like, I'd be happy to put in some guesses. I am *not* enforcing any minimum number of stages on record. If you have even a single stage shot, it'll give you a classification. Officially it will require more than one (BoD meeting minutes from December say 4, but it's not fully decided). I haven't done anything with ISR, so it's also "Unknown". If folks feel it's appropriate, I could set it equal to Revolver. I expect folks' classifications will, on average, go down a bit over their current official SCSA classification. Generally speaking it seems to have a "normalizing" effect, pulling people towards the middle- somewhere around a mid-to-high C, though I haven't studied it in depth. However, if you're the type that shoots more than one centerfire division regularly, expect your classification for the two, separately, to each be lower than the current system (which combines them and takes the best overall). Let me know if you have any thoughts on it! Jake

Easy one... fixed!

Check mine (A46578) and look at the last row under the RFPO section. It shows a time but None for each stage. I think it's correct now. Look okay? There's only one individual stage score listed because the columns are for official stages, and only Smoke & Hope was run in that match. The other 4 stages are unofficial ones.

Howdy! I probably won't be there this Sunday, but good luck! If you haven't seen it, there's a separate page just for stats about the Cactus Thursday match... https://azshooters.org/tnpm_shooter... much the same sort of thing.

Check mine (A46578) and look at the last row under the RFPO section. It shows a time but None for each stage. 99 little bugs in the code, 99 little bugs take one down, pass it around 102 little bugs in the code... Reprocessing again.

Reprocessing is complete, data should be "complete" now.

If you want to make the current system as accurate as possible remove classification calculations for RFPI, RFPO, RFRI, and RFRO. We currently do not perform classification calculations on rimfire divisions. Also take the fastest time, regardless of center fire division and use that to calculate the classification. That being said I wouldn't change what you have with the possible exception of adding a line at the top of the current classification summary that calculates the classification based on the fastest time for each stage that was shot from a center fire division. That way you'd be calculating classification the way we do it now as well as showing classification by division (which I really like). Finally Steel Challenge is one of the topics for the upcoming BoD meeting. I've emailed my AD and asked him to get a status on the classification system. I would encourage everyone to email their AD as well and tell him you'd like an update. If enough ask perhaps at least one will as the question on our behalf. One of the main reasons I did this was at the request of one of my buddies at my local range that shoots a lot of RFPI, and does markedly better with it than he does at Limited. He wanted to see a more granular view of the data. Your idea on a "centerfire overall"/"Official" row is interesting though... it would be nice to have one that mirrored the SCSA official rating exactly. I'll see what I can do.

Oh wow, you caught a rather large bug. Seems my script had an off-by-one bug, causing the last stage of some matches not to get counted! I'm reprocessing data now. Thanks for the careful check.

Thanks for the offer Nimitz, I've sent you a PM. At the moment, I'm not sure how valuable it will be to proceed without a better understanding of the new system... I'd hate to give people false hope (or unduly take hope away!) by showing estimates that end up wildly inaccurate. The work I've done so far has a lot of assumptions in it, and they can wildly change the classification- In testing I saw at least one "Steel A" drop to "D"! That's not something I really want to show (and I doubt anyone else wants the heart attacks either) unless I'm pretty sure it's accurate.