coldchar
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Posts posted by coldchar
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Range Equipment Failure and Competitor Equipment failure are not treated the same way -- with good reason. If you have range equipment failure, reshoot the (entire) stage....
I think you may have missed the reason for my question. I am not asking about competitor equipment failure, I understand the rule and the reason behind it.
I also understand the reason , when there is a REF, for reshooting the course of fire when the individual strings share the same set of targets. It is a scoring problem. In this case, the two strings did not share the same targets so there is no problem in scoring the individual strings. In this case it penalized the other shooters in two ways, a time delay as well as the shooter got to reshoot the first string which the other shooters did not.
I realize the activator was not reset properly, we see that all the time.
Jim
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Ran into this this month. Multi string stage, different sets of targets for each string. REF on the second string from an activator did not activate. Rule 4.6.2 says REF requires reshoot of the "course of fire".
Stict interpretation of 4.6.2 would mean both strings would have to be reshot, which we did. I was initially going to let him reshoot just the offending string, but another RO corrected me. Result, a substantial edge to the shooter who gets to reshoot the first string plus ticks off the other shooters.
Anyone know if NROI has ever given an interpretation which would only allow the second string to have to be reshot.
Jim G
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I'm not making my own rules. They key words in the rule are " in the opinion of the Range Master, most closely identifies with the competitor’s equipment." So seeing how no one is going to shoot a gun that fits in no division without anyone noticing, I'm using my opinion to decided his gun best identified as Open/Minor. How am I breaking the rules?
Because you don't have any idea what the competitor is shooting. The word "identifies" surely means you know, not your guess. The rule: 6.2.5 Where a Division is unavailable or deleted, or where a competitor fails to declare a specific Division prior to the commencement of a match, the competitor will be placed in the Division which, in the opinion of the Range Master, most cosely identifies with the competitor’s equipment. If, in the opinion of the Range Master, no suitable Division is
available, the competitor will shoot the match for no score.
I agree the MD/RM should try to find out the correct division...
If the RM/MD can not verify for sure what division the competitor was shooting, then it is no-score.
But if he/she can not, the rule is specific. If you put them in Open/Minor, you are breaking the rules as well. Sure, at a local match, you can probably find out by checking or asking a squad mate. That would be "identification." The vast majority of the time that will work.
If the "subject" shooter is unknown, no contact, etc. and no-one can tell the RM/MD what the person was shooting, then again, no score.
Maybe the run is the word "identifies". Guess the moral is to make sure Stats gets the divisions entered.
I don't think the no score rule applies here. The no score rule applies when there is no divison which matches the competitors equipment, it has nothing to do with failing to declare a divison. It simply means there is no home for him, but come and shoot regardless.
If all other attempts fail, then dropping them into open/ minor is what I do to catch their attention. Is it a good answer, probably not, but it is a whole lot better than completely blowing them out of the match by declaring a no score. Any gun in any configuration fits into open minor.,
Jim G
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I ask anyone who mnight have seen him if they remember what he is shoting. My shooter information sheet asks for a email address. Flipping them into open is a penalty for declaring one divison and having equipment for another. Does not fit this situation. This is a best a over sight and at worst an attitude. When I post the scores they have time to respond with a correction. Normally they do.
Jim G
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Just noticed that Midway has an all steel Weigand rear sight in .125 and .140.
I like the Weigand sight but not aluminum.
Sorry if this is old news.
Info here: http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=956921
I have the Rough Country sight, which gives the save sight picture as a Weigand, on my Model 19 which is my go everywhere and do anything gun. Put it on after my Weigand sight began to wiggle from being knocked around a bit. Aluminum does that. The Rough Country is solid steel, works like a champ for real life carry and abuse and IDPA shoots.
However, like another member said, they use the Taurus opposing screw system to adjust windage and it is a pain to adjust. On a dedicated competition gun I pass as it is too difficult to adjust for different loads etc.
I use the Weigand for PPC distinguished, and LPA for my USPSA revolver, and S&W factory for Icore classic.
Jim G
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You get bumped to open only after two things happen. First you have to declare another division. Secondly after the start signal your equipment does not meet the requirements of the divison you declared. Unfortunately some accidents can occur but also unfortunately , some try to get away with things.,
Jim G
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Just because a case came flying out does not mean the gun was unloaded, this scenario. Prior stage, shooter finishes and goes to eject round, bullet is stuck in the chamber (over size whatever), extractor slips off the rim. Slide racks back and shooter is a hot shot and RO does not have a chance to look down the chamber, or the RO does not know to do so, or too lazy, or too distracted. Slide released, hammer down and gun goes click, no one knows it is a high primer (just a bad all around reload). Gun is now hot and no one knows it.
Your stage, gun is racked to seat a round, the second time around the extractor pulls the case free of the bullet. Most think it has fired, it has a dent from the prior high primer.
Yep, it is a DQ.
Jim G.
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Ahh... there might be hope yet (it's hell getting old).I was ALL for shooting with both eyes open (and always did, without even trying) for the first five years of shooting, but my left eye has "issues" and I just can't see clearly using both eyes at once. I noticed my shooting accuracy had really taken a nose dive over the past few months so very recently began closing the "bad" eye and using my "good" eye only. Voila! Improvement!! Lots of improvement. I could actually see the sights, the target and proper sight alignment.
*Sigh* I guess it's one-eye shooting from here on out. I miss using both eyes,
but the lady's gotta do what the lady's gotta do.
<--one eyeSig ... Could prescription glasses rectify the problem??
Having said that, I have a close friend that was one of the most accurate shooters I know with iron / metallic sights, when he got prescription glasses he stopped running into walls and such, but his accuracy suffered with the irons sights, so he switched to optics, so then again seeing might not be the best thing...
One of my shooting buddys is an ophthalmologist who I use for my eye examinations. He recently introduced me to a concept where I use single correction (as opposed to tri-focal) lenses for shooting.
The dominant eye is adjusted to focus at the front sight while the other focuses at target distances. With both eyes open I can see a very sharp front sight and a fuzzy target (sounds like cheating, huh) just like you have been taught. As your eyes age the focus just won't change quick enough to switch back and forth between the target and sights.
It's great! I can find out the exact specifics if anyone is interested. You can sample the results by having the Optimoligist dial in the numbers and let you hold a pencil out to simulate a front sight. You will be amazed.
I have used that system of perscription glasses for years. Works great and is a lot cheaper and faster then trifocals.
Jim
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I'm guessing that you just don't want to be in a position to pull it and use it, then you would have a problem..
Can't read intent. Level 1 new shooter probably ask him if he really wanted to do that and when he asks why not, explain the rule.
Level 1 experienced shooter Probably not as likely to ask him if he really wanted to do that
Anything else, welcome to open.
Jim G
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Hello fellow Wheelgunners.
My name is Jeff Weimholt.
I would first like to thank all the fellow Revo shooters that have purchased my holders.
Thanks also to all the folks that have shown interest in my holders.
I am currently working on a wedsite. As always finances are an issue. Ideas as well.
For anyone interested in my holders my email address is: jweimholt@cox.net
Most of all I would like to thank the shooters that have promoted my product.
Jeff Weimholt
Hi Jeff, I purchased a single and a double safariland comp holder from you for my Model 19 and now I have a 586. Can you email me the information so I can order another single and double for this L frame for my Comp II and III;s that is IDPA legal. My email is jgross@land.az.gov
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Both Frank Glenn (who won the Masters one year) and Charlie Crawford are retired DPS armorers. Frank tends to have a very fast turn around, Cosmetics are also something he shines at.
Charlie has a slower turnaround , but the prices are a tad lower but the technical is just is good. but you have to get in line.
Frank will work on some colts, but not all. Either one are super people and super revolver gunsmiths. I use both with equal confidence.
Jim
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At my match set up, I whip out my Icore (120 pf) or IDPA (now 105 pf) 38 special handloads which I know do not make USPSA PF. Of course that means you have to find some old timer walking around with a wheel gun.
Jim G
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Had this happen last week and the RO's were not sure how to call it. Had one shooter who seemed to spend all 6 shots are one plate . Pretty obvious it was a FTE on 5 plates. Or was it a FTE on 4 or 3 plates and they missed on two? Gets confusing when you guess.
Old Baseball rule for umpires, if you are not sure you see the out, you do not call it. The tie does not goes to the runner , it goes to the fact that the umpire is not absolutely sure.
Same on the plate rack.
Jim G
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My stat person was asking what the B next to the hit factor on the Winscore Classifier Activity Report represented. I was unable to find anything on it.
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And on the first Saturday of each month I run the USPSA match at Phx Rod & Gun. Normally I am the only revolver shooter. Would love to have some company.
Jim G
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I've had folks say "Not Ready" a time or two; I've used it on occasion....
I've had to.
A peeve of mine is standing there with my hand on the grip of my gun, taking a last mental picture, and have an RO ask, "Are you ready?"
+1
Wish I could say I had never done that, sometimes there is so much going on I am just moves thru the mechanics at that time . Sorry about that. Jim G.
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I run the local level 1 USPSA match at my club.
When I took the RO class the instructor said everything happening on the stage could be handled by the basic commands.
When I took the CRO class the instructor said he recommended the Dou You Understand ... question on Level 1 courses.
My actions: By the time I psot and WSB & do the walk thru and ask at that time if there are any questions, they have had lots of opportunithy to ask questions..
Shooters who come in late and don't bother reading the WSB and come up to me and ask questions I answer, although with a level of irratation I try to keep to myself. Generally these are higher level shooters who are just being lazy.
I have enough problems just remembering the basic commands when things go weird let alone throwing in a command not required or necessary.
Jim G.
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You can do it, but you will have some really unhappy shooters. They don't like memory tests.
Jim G.
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I was at a plateau on my USPSA revolver shooting when I found a new trning technique which helped both my speed and accuracy.
Picked up a little Taurus 94, kind of a J frame 22. Very light with a terrible trigger. Starting going to the range and setting up targets at 25 yards. Got out the timer and just did draw and shoot one round with the goal of maximizing speed consistent with an A Hit. Did it for between 50 & 100 rounds then called it quits. After the first 25 or so draws and shoots would mix in some double taps just for variety and transitioning between targets.
My speed for the first shot stayed in the 3 plus second range but my ability to hit consistently the A zone at 25 yards gradually improved, and so did my focus and concentration. Made all the shorter distances so much easier and faster.
jim
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My concern was that some folks seem to be saying it is OK to file under 11.7.1 for a scoring issue, which would be specifically excluded by the first sentence of 11.1.2 in combination with 9.6.6.
It's excluded only if it has gone to the RM. If a scoring dispute has not advanced to the RM, 9.6.6 does not limit it.
Nope, sorry. Read all of section 9.6. It lays out the procedure for scoring. If an appellant doesn't choose to elevate to the RM, he accepts the decision of the CRO. The scoring call cannot then be elevated to an arbitration on the logic of "Well, the RM didn't make a call." Any arb committee should immediately question if the matter was appealed to the RM. If it wasn't, then game over....
If the RM was asked to rule and refused to examine the target -- then we might have a situation for arbitration....
Disagree, if the RM refuses to look at the target, hard to imagine, but if then he has defacto supported the decision of the CRO. It would be the same thing as the Supreme Court declining to hear a case, that lets stand the ruling of the lower court.
Jim G.
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Troy do you say that the next time the National Championships are being hotly contested, that any shooter, or the guy cleaning the porta potty for that matter, can get involved with the scoring?
Can they "appeal" to have Todd's or Robbie's, or whomever's targets pulled and examined by the RM despite the RO/CRO having scored it to the shooters satisfaction?
Can they do this on several stages? We always grant a scoring "appeal" from the shooter, even if it is on every stage. I have never seen or know of one being turned down. So do we grant the porta potty guys appeal every time or do we treat these differently?
Gee I love this stuff
The way the rules are written, it appears only the Shooter and his delegate can appeal. The rest is just background noise.
Jim G
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I am not sure where the reshoot came in?
I'm guessing it arose from the discrepancy in scoring the target by the RO, CRO and RM, and by the fact that the scoresheet had been signed. Really only bad choices there -- either the shooter agrees to eat a miss (i.e. agrees to a change on the scoresheet -- something I might be loathe to do, if I were confident that it was possible that I'd shot a perfect double with that particular gun/that particular target) or all of the other competitor's wind up in a different position for the match as a result of a bad call.
Ultimately, this appears to be a mistake by the stage staff, in being efficient in obtaining the competitor's initials -- that is if the reporting is accurate; and if I were editing the article, I would have had a few questions that needed clarification on the details....
Offering the reshoot -- while not supported by the rules, might have been the best (Solomon-like) decision to maintain competitive equity.....
Impossible to say without having been there....
Implies, what seems right etc are not what RO's , CRO's, RM's, Umpires. Referees are all about. From a lifetime of officiating, our job is not to interpret the rules but to apply them.. Solomon writes the rules, we simply apply them.
Jim G.
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That was an interesting couple of calls. I too scratched my head on that one. Sure do not remember anything in the book about competiting shooters be able to challenge and have the call reversed
after the score card was signed. Then the reshoot being ordered to "fix" the problem? Jim G.
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I cant believe this would be easier or faster than just laying 2X2's on the ground with a spike in each end. Your probably charging $10-20 per shooter, take some of the money down to Home depot and buy a few 2X2's.
I'll be happy to give you the number of the local MD, so you can explain it to him. I can't force him to spend money, so when I decided to start setting up stages, I was looking for the cheapest way out.
You have a decision to make, what the MD wants or what is right. It effects how people look at you and what your goals are. When a club signs up with USPSA, it agrees to go by USPSA rules. There is no wiggle room on that unless local laws get in the way.
Ever thought about having your own match?
Jim G.
<--one eye
after the score card was signed. Then the reshoot being ordered to "fix" the problem?
Multi string stage, REF
in USPSA/IPSC Rules
Posted
My compliments, that is the reciprocal of what I was taught, that as a sports official I am charged, when in the gray zone, with maintaining competitive equality.
Jim G