Orbit
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Posts posted by Orbit
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Hi Friends,
I have a STI Trojan 5 40 S&W. With the pistol are 10 pcs of metalform Stainless Magazines (5 with short lips and the other 5 with long lips). Initially, i had a lot of nose up & FTF problems with these magazines. After twicking a bit and break in for about 800 rds, all metalform mags are all reliable but not to my 100% satisfaction.
Last week, I received the 6 pcs Tripp Cobra System Magazines (10 rounds) and 6 pcs additional corey followers (for 9 rounds). I am very excited to try these new magazines. Yesterday, Father's day, I went to a local shooting range and test the mags. It was a disaster. All mags are nose diving, whether loading the mags with 10, 8 and 5 rounds. Open or close slide has the same results. Its all nose diving. I created a lot of bad ammo due to this since it shrinked due to nose dives. Later on, I used a dummy ammo for further testing.
My ammunition are a winchester40 S&W factory load 180g AOL=1.128" and a reload ammo 40 S&W 180g AOL=1.128."
I also try to use the EGW mag release and it was all the same: Nose Diving.
Friends, if you have these same magazines and working for your 40 S&W pistol especially STI Trojan pistol, how did you tune it? I am planning to return all of these magazines. It is a expensive magazines for $390.
See the pics below:
Please help out.
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----------------Back of berm
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----------------- Don't point gun past this line
Thank you for the simple but clear diagram.
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Number one, assume that the back berm is straight.
Then draw a line parallel to back berm where the shooting is standing.
If you point your firearm up range of this line then you have broken the IPSC 90 degree line
Is the target is on a side berm then draw a line 90 degrees from the side berm to the leading edge of target. If you step past this line and point your firearm up range of the line you have broken the 90
Hi,
Thank you for the fast response. Where can we get a lay out illustration of this rule? English is my second language and I am a bit lost in the second paragraph.
I am hoping for your patience.
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Friends,
I am shooting IPSC for a year but I would like to really understand the 90 degrees rules. The match that I shoot before were designed not to break the 90 degrees rule. I would like to know this by heart. If you can give me illustrations, reference points and examples that would be great. Sometimes, I am confuse about the reference point; is it the bern or the stage that I am shooting at (remember some stages are not perpendicular to the center of the berm due to space availability)?
I posted this topic, because last Friday May 29, I shoot in IPSC match. On stage 2, the RO told me that I almost break the 90. I watch my video but I can't see it
Please help friends.
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Updates:
The replacement Metalform magazines from STI Texas arrived today (3 pcs). One thing is noticeable, the metal of the replacement ones are thick and well polish. THE ONE THAT I BOUGHT ARE THIN METAL & SEMI POLISH. Same brand & maker but different quality.
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Orbit,
If you have the time, call Roger Kotanko of Dark International- Port Dover. Your experience with your 40sw and 9mm in single stock is very common. 100% he can fix your problem, btw, Roger only works in evenings and or you can see him every Tuesday night at Burlington Gun Club
Francis
Do you have a contact number or email of Roger? Please PM it to me at orbit1785@yahoo.com
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Friends,
Updates for my STI Trojan 5 40 S&W pistol after a bit of tuning and range time:
1. Clean all regular matalform 40 S&W magazines and make sure all lips and opening conformed with standard dimensions
2. Polished the ramp, ramp sides or edges, 360 deg sides and throat/chamber
3. Fire a couple of hundred rounds (1.128" OAL - factory dimension for both reloads and factory), total = 750 rounds
4. Properly re-install the SVI trigger bow
Results:
After shooting and tuning up, the pistol ran flawlessly in terms of accuracy, trigger pull, cycle and for the entire range time, I only had 1 FTF (magazine #5). I keep on repeating to use the #5 magazine, and it ran good.
After a deep analysis, the nose-up is like this:
Screen Shot 2015-06-01 at 11.51.03 AM.pdf
The back part of the ammo wasn't yet out of the magazine and didn't even touch the breach face and extractor. It seems that the nose of the ammo was released immaturely after the slide went back from the action and prevent the slide from moving forward to cycle.
I think this is really a magazine related issue or ammo. But when I use it again for several times, zero jam or no nose up.
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As RO in IPSC, we can also shoot at the same day as competitor right? Do we need to also pay the match fee? And when can we shoot, at the end of the match or anytime as long as you inform the Director?
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Actually, you have to buy your own striped shirt (unless the match gives you one). And flag patch. And hat. And blue pants.
I got IROA-certified in 2013. I have since worked several IPSC matches, including the World Shoot, and each has been a great experience. You get to work with ROs from all over the World, learn tricks and skills that you don't necessary encounter here in the US, and pass on things you have learned. It is a genuine brotherhood. Overall, I think it makes me a better RO.
With this said, IROA makes the application and qualification process a real PITA. You have to accrue a certain number of match points by working IPSC matches (USPSA don't count), then you have to maintain a minimum number of match points by continuing to work IPSC matches. As we typically only run one a year here in the US, this probably means travelling overseas (likely as not at your own expense).
I have to say, I think it is a pity that IROA will no longer give match points for working USPSA matches; in my experience US-based ROs get waaaaaaaay more high-level competitive work experience than ROs outside the US, and thus are typically more polished and conversant with the rules and competitor management strategies (less likely to fold under competitor pressure). Yes, there are some differences between USPSA and IPSC rules, but not enough to make a material difference... my feeling is that this has more to do with machismo and a perceived rivalry between IPSC and USPSA than any meaningful difference in RO needs.
The OP lives in Canada, so the process is easier. I would say that, if you have the time and funds to get certified and then MAINTAIN that certification, then do it... you will really benefit from the experience. However, go into it knowing that it is a long-term commitment, and not something you can pick up and put down at will.
Very constructive input.
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Hi Friends,
What are the advantages and disadvantages of being a IPSC Range Officer aside from helping our co-practitioners in shooting sports and the IPSC organization itself?
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Tripp 10mm mags, the Corey Tripp mags are what I use
load your ammo to 1.18-1.20
I was shooting 165gr, then switched to 180's and now a 200gr
all fed with the Corey/Tripp 10mm competition mags
The STI mags do not work, even the Tripp 40s&w mags do not work well loaded long
I am about to order that magazines: Tripp 10mm Corey Magazines with Hybrid Follower. I am just waiting for another results of my 2 trips in the shooting range in regards to my issues and waiting for the replacement mags. From there, if there is no improvement, I have no choice but to burn $$$ again for the said magazines. I am hoping this tripp mags will work or I will send back my pistol to STI for good.
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What issues are the old mags giving you?
Nosediving.
If the Dawson mags are giving you problems with a built in feed ramp in the mag, I suspect there is something other than mags going on. Who made the gun? How many rounds? What is the OAL of the ammo you are running? Bullet profile?
Springfield Loaded.
Thousands.
I have tried multiple profiles and various OAL's over the year. Loading longer helped but problems remained.
I finally decided that ditching the metalfor/Dawson and Wilson mags would be the best course of action.
Hi Friend,
I am willing to buy those dawson/metalform magazines if you want. Send me pics in my personal email: orbit1785@yahoo.com and lets discuss on how can i get it. Its hard to find those mags in Canada
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Jman93,
What specific model of wilson do you have?
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could it have too much tension. The picture looks like the case can't slide up under the extractor.
My open gun did the same. Removing the front spring fixed it.
Hi,
I will try it again tomorrow. Its hard to remove the aftec extractor. Do you know how to simply remove it? My hand is sore already, tomorrow again. I think you have a point by analyzing the picture.
Thanks.
for the mean time, i put an empty brass in the chamber, so that the aftec will loose a bit (hoping). I checked the tension, a bit okay but I will try it.
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could it have too much tension. The picture looks like the case can't slide up under the extractor.
My open gun did the same. Removing the front spring fixed it.
Hi,
I will try it again tomorrow. Its hard to remove the aftec extractor. Do you know how to simply remove it? My hand is sore already, tomorrow again. I think you have a point by analyzing the picture.
Thanks.
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The Lee U die is worth it. It will cure the buldge. From your pics--the ammo is the problem. If you can't get one (sometimes hard to find), then get the push through sizing die. It works. I don't even use case lube anymore. The 650 runs like a clock with pre-sized 40 brass.
You installed the AFTEC? Did you modify the firing pin stop correctly?
To be honest, I will just start the reloading process, no experience yet, i am just buying reloads or factory ammunition. Yes, I already installed the aftec extractor and it run great with good and enough tension to hold the empty brass. I did modify my firing pin block as required in the aftec document.
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sort the ammo out then reassess.
I did that when I was in the range yesterday. I shoot the factory load first and out of 5 trials in alledge defective mags, I only got 1 FTF.
Then I used the sorted reload ammunitions and no FTF. These happens when I gauge all ammo and clean the barrel chamber (put a bit of oil).
The FTF was the same indicated pic at the very beginning of this post. The ammo nose-up.
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sort the ammo out then reassess.
I did that when I was in the range yesterday. I shoot the factory load first and out of 5 trials in alledge defective mags, I only got 1 FTF.
Then I used the sorted reload ammunitions and no FTF. These happens when I gauge all ammo and clean the barrel chamber (put a bit of oil).
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If you were in the US, I would volunteer to send a Wilson mag to you for a function test. I tried to go with the Metalform Mags to save a few bucks when I first bought my .40 Trojan, but it was a Jam-o-matic, Wilson mags ($160 US) later and it runs like a top.
Of course my Canadian made Para 16.40 runs like a top...
Hi Dogtired,
Thank you for the input and even for the offer of lending the mag if i am in US. I am planning to buy the corey Tripp mags sooner, I am just trying to see and solve the issues one at a time. In terms of wilson mags, what kind or model of magazine in 40 S&W or 10mm?
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Do me a favor.
Pull the barrel out and see if the same rounds drop in.
Remove the front spring from the aftec. Make sure it can pivot.
Hi Dansedgli,
I did that yesterday. I got the barrel and tried to drop in the ammo of both factory and good reload on it. It seems that the wall of the case is a bit thick that produce a resistance to fully seated the ammo. It needs to be pushed a bit to make it seat properly. The worst one are the pics below.
These are the same with my barrel.
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Note: The case which was written as bulge and didn't fit to my Trojan 40 chamber works flawlessly with STI Edge and STI Ranger 2. I did
made a comparison of their chamber. I found that the edge and ranger chamber are reemed, polished and bit wider than my Trojan
40's chamber
Conclusion: The STI Trojan 40 chamber is still too tight
The chamber is almost certainly in spec, have it checked before doing any "reaming". It sounds like the problem is the ammo and I am very familiar with that problem. I bought several cheap aftermarket barrels for some of my guns I could ream to shoot crappy reload ammo because it was cheap and the only stuff available.... but I would never ream a factory barrel to make it shoot out of spec ammo.
Hi Bountyhunter,
Thanks. Actually I am thinking of that last night and will not touch the chamber for reamer. I will try first several high-end ammo and good empty brass to reload.
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I am trying to put the pics but I cant see the right icon.
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If it were me. I would check...
1. slide stop. see if there is any gold rubbing marks on the inside hump, if there is, file down, careful not to remove the bottom ledge that makes contact with the follower.
2. with an empty case and 600 sandpaper/then use 1000 grit, rolled onto the case. rub it up and down on the feed-ramp, then use a polishing paste with a demel buffing wheel and polish. Also with a small round file, break sharp top corner of the ramp, just round it off and polish with buffing wheel.
3. load your ammo around 1.160 - 1.170 give or take and make sure you have proper crimp. Drop finished round to test into chamber, should fall in and fall out, when you have the proper crimp. no more crimp needed, just enough to ensure round falls in and falls out.
4. change recoil spring to a Wolff 13lb spring. that should be right in the ball park, you can later change to suit your style of shooting.
5. make sure you don't have too much tension on the extractor? check to see if the round slides up easily and stays secure in the hook. also bevel the bottom on the extractor, where the round comes up into the hook. use a slight radius at the corner of the hook and polish.
and yes the Tripp Corba/corey mags are the best to use.
thats what I would do.
JMHO
Just because a round fits in a gauge does not mean it does not have a "bulge". Its the shape that matters too, not just if its under a certain spec. As above, round nose bullets, and new brass - or run used brass through a full length sizer. Load long 1.18 OAL.
If none of that works get new Wilson, Tripp, or ? mags.
If different mags don't fix it...... weld the ramp?
Hi,
You are right and lots of points to consider in solving my issues. I just came back from the range and the following were the results:
1. I check first all the ammunition dimensions using my Dillon Case Gauge for 40 S&W.
Results:
a. The factory load and my finest 40 S&W reloads (1.128") have some sort of a bit difficulty to seat properly in the gauge. It seems that the
wall of the case wasn't resize/sized properly, it seems that the case is still thick enough to produce resistance to prevent the seating
of the case in the chamber.
b. The reload from a friend of mine in 1.18" have bulge cases
Temporary solution: Used the Factory load ammunition (winchester 165g FN 40S&W in white box)
2. Fired at least 50 rounds ( 20 rounds factory and 30 rounds finest reload)
Results:
a. I have 1 FTF per mag ( 5 rounds each mag) - used 5 mags
b. It seems that the FTF now wasn't the nose up as indicated in the pic but the ammo didn't seat completely to the chamber. The ammo
was 3/4 seated while the other 1/4 still out of the chamber.
2. Dismantle my slide and clean the barrel ramp, chamber and its wall; then put back the pistol together again
Results:
a. For 5 mags running 50 rounds of finest reload (means the ammo were checked which almost identical to the physical dimensions of
the factory ones), only 1 FTF.
3. I tried to run 1.18" and 1.2" OAL to my gun but it wasn't fit to my magazine in terms of its length. So, i removed the spacer. Loaded
the magazine and put it on the gun.
Result:
a. the ammo nose dive - first ammo in the magazine
b. the ammo didn't fit to the gun's chamber (fit thru half way) -- the case are bulge
Note: The case which was written as bulge and didn't fit to my Trojan 40 chamber works flawlessly with STI Edge and STI Ranger 2. I did
made a comparison of their chamber. I found that the edge and ranger chamber are reemed, polished and bit wider than my Trojan
40's chamber
Conclusion: The STI Trojan 40 chamber is still too tight
For now, my plans for tomorrow are:
1. Full cleaning of the pistol
2. check and sanding of slide stop (if it touch the ammo) if needed
3. Polish the ramp, side of the ramp, throat or chamber, upper edges of the chamber
Friends, please write your comments, suggestions and personal experience.
Tripp Cobra System (10 rds) & Corey (9 rds) Magazines
in Gear & Accessories
Posted
Thanks for initial responses