vsound

I will just reiterate a big thanks to Greg for putting on the match and especially to Linda for the scoring. I have never seen scoring get done so quickly for a match of that size. Kudos, Linda!!!!! Minigun - worth the price of admission alone.. I GOT TO SHOOT A FRICKIN MINIGUN!!!!!! Thanks, Greg! Scoring was inconsistent, but wouldn't take much to get that on track. I had doubts about whether Greg could pull off 170+ shooters on 8 stages over two days. He did it, but just barely. Good job to get it done. Challenging stages that tested things I've never had to do before. Have new things to practice now. Good match all around. I hope to return next year. Don't really care to do another crawl-through-the-tunnel stage (yes, I'm a pansy office boy), but otherwise look forward to what he has in store for future matches.

Thanks. That's what I thought. Main thing is shotgun, 'cause I don't have a sling to carry it muzzle down. "Why is it that common sense doesn't seem to be very common?" Anonymous

What are the requirements for transporting long guns between stages? Will we need chamber flags? Chamber open? Bagged? I was going to bring my cart, but it looks like we won't have room, so I need to know what's acceptable to you for safe transport.

From post #7 by Greg on Nov. 10th (Page 1 of the thread): He changed a few things, but the item that seems to be the primary point of contention has been there all along. BTW, I'll be there blasting away with my F2 comp on my rifle . Now, if I could only figure out a way to mount one on my shottie......

FYI, as best I can tell, the original version of the rules as posted on Nov. 8th (post #1 by Greg) included the 2 and 4 second penalties for C and D hits. That part of the rules appears to have remained consistent throughout. I for one am stoked to see what he has in store for us. The only affect those rules will really have is making the spread larger between those who do well and those who don't. I doubt it will have any affect on order of finish.

Just close your eyes while you're shooting and they'll all be low light/no light....

At 25 yards?!! Mine definitely doesn't jump that much. It does still have more bounce than a DI would with the same comp, but the reticle doesn't bounce off of an IPSC target at 100yds. For yours to be bouncing that much sounds like something might be amiss.

Of course if you read the scoring carefully, it says "MINUS 2" for C and "MINUS 4" for D. So does that mean a C or D hit will actually reduce my overall time? If so, that'll be awesome! I can rack up D's all day long.

My primary 3-gun rifle uses a POF upper. I love the thing. As jobob said, it's a little harder to calm down, but with an F2 comp the recoil seems to be reasonable. Less recoil than a DI with standard flash hider, but more recoil than a DI with a good comp. A little while back, the gas plug broke on mine. But, it still kept running and I didn't even know the part was broken until I went to clean the rifle. POF replaced it in short order. It is super easy to clean and it is absolutely reliable. Mine has a 16.5" ABS barrel which is ~1MOA capable with the right ammo. Not bad for a 16.5" carbine.

App is going out in today's mail. Hopefully it's not too late. (fingers crossed)

A while back, I talked to Mike Rock (Rock Creek Barrels) about break-in procedure. His response was "shoot it". Just make sure it doesn't get too hot within the first 50-100 rounds or so, but otherwise he seemed to think that there was no appreciable difference between "breaking in" a barrel and just shooting it. He said the typical "shoot a few shots, clean, then shoot a few more" was only having the real affect of allowing the barrel to cool in between.

Hmmm. Didn't know any of the pistons had gas rings. The POF, Adams Arms, and LWRC do not have rings, but I haven't looked that closely at some of the others. I don't have a JP, but I have seen buddies JP's choke and have seen them run like Swiss clocks. Inevitably, almost any of them could choke at any given time. My preference is for the piston, but I certainly wouldn't pass up an opportunity to run a JP on sponsorship.

FYI, there are no gas rings on a piston AR. That's part of what increases reliability while reducing maintenance. Oh, and POF piston ARs do not require oil.

I have a POF that I customized to be my 3-gunning rifle. I absolutely love it. As jobob said, it is absolutely reliable. Plus, I swapped out the barrel with a 16.5" carbon fiber/stainless ABS barrel, so it is sub-moa (3/4" is about the best I've done with it on the bench). I put a Dreadnaught F2 comp on mine, so it has minimal recoil. Maybe slightly more bounce than a similarly rigged out DI gun, but definitely WAY less recoil than my buddies rifles with standard issue flash hiders. After shooting several local matches and the MG Nationals all I had to do was wipe off the piston with a rag and run a swab down the barrel....done...clean. Nothing else was dirty.

3 gun means that each stage is just one gun of the three (e.g. rifle only stage, pistol only stage, shotgun only stage). Multigun can use multiple guns on one stage. I much prefer the challenge of having to move from one gun to another within a stage.

Based on the comments in the other threads, I don't think the difference between 3 gun and multigun is really a significant issue. Match organization, USPSA support, and inconsistencies in the running of a match are more at issue. I realize 3 gun vs. multigun affects the scoring, but it seems the bigger picture seems to be the whole scoring system, not just whether to do it as 3 gun or multigun.

Disagree - minor. Not really fair to the guys shooting .308 Put them in Heavy Metal. Leave it up to the match organizers to decide what is Heavy Metal, but make it clear up front. If someone chooses to shoot .308 in Lim, Tac, or Open, so be it, but there's so few of them that I don't think it's worth the headache of having major/minor.

Just an added point to the issue of long ranges, roughly 30 miles to the south side of Shreveport is the Long Range Alley range ( www.lra-tti.com ). Plenty of bays for close stuff (some going out to 100 yds, 75 yds, and most probably 30-40 yds max), an assault deck that goes out to ~500 yds, and a 1000-yd range. Nothing against the Clark's range, but Long Range Alley would have been a primo location, and it would have only been 15 minutes more drive each day to get there.

This was somewhat dependent on how many RO's were at a stage. If there was an RO dedicated to watch a table of loaded guns, they would load more than just the on-deck shooter. I do not remember EVER loading a chamber until the RO said "Make ready" at the line. We had one stage that had us load the chamber on the pre-loading table. We did as they asked, but we were surprised by it. This match had dedicated rifle targets and pistol targets. So splitting them while scoring is not a big deal. The stats folks had to deal with it back end. Does EZWS do it automatically? Lee EZWS does not handle major/minor with multigun. I talked to the stats girl about it because I was confused when looking at the scores. She said the whole match had to be scored as major, then they have to enter additional penalty points for anything that has a minor hit. A BIG pain in the rear for her. Kudos to her because she did the best she could with what she had to work with, but it was certainly not easy to do (thus the delays in posting the final scores).

I have to agree with most of the comments being posted. First, I have to acknowledge the hard work put in by the ROs. Without them, it wouldn't have happened at all. It was my first opportunity to shoot a National level match, and as an added bonus, it just so happened to be a multigun match. However, this match was not run as though it were a national level match. It felt more like an area match, or even a section match, but using three guns instead of one. There was inconsistency stage to stage in terms of rules. Some stages pre-loaded only after all competitors were back, some pre-loaded tubes but not chamber, and one pre-loaded tubes and chamber. Competitors didn't know from stage to stage how to handle the long guns without running the risk of being DQ'd for something they just did on the previous stage. Round counts could definitely have been higher. As stated, the only reload for rifle was a mandatory one on the standards stage. No pistol reloads. Shotgun reloads were probably okay, but there was no mix and match of birdshot vs. slug. No thought had to be put in as to how to tackle the stages. Everything was straight forward. There were some fun stages, but they just weren't as challenging as I would expect a national level match to be. Retention boxes were not good. I realize a lot of effort went into building them just before the match, but simply making them wider would have saved a lot of grief. Or, as others noted, use barrels. Major/minor really just needs to be eliminated for a match such as this. It created scoring problems and really is not needed when you're doing multiple guns. They need to just have minimum calibers (e.g. 9mm, .223, and 12 ga.) for Lim, Tac, and Open, and designate a Heavy Metal class for those that want to shoot heavier stuff. Shoot everything major as long as it meets the minimums. If someone chooses to shoot .40 in Tac, or 9mm in Lim, etc., so be it. Chamber flags. Fortunately, at the last moment I remembered someone mentioning the need for chamber flags, so I brought mine. But, a lot of other folks didn't get word, or forgot, or whatever. No flags were available at the match, so everyone had to improvise with pieces of rope, cut up shotshells, etc., etc. A national level match should have made sure flags were available, even if for purchase. Lack of support from HQ was a big downer. We paid a much higher entry fee for this over what a section match would cost, and yet the prize tables are typically much better at the section matches. We didn't even stick around for the prizes at this match. It was more valuable for us to get on the road than to stick around for a few small items on the prize table. Bottom line, we still had a good time, and because of the location, if they host another multigun there, we'll be back. But, we would like to see more input from HQ and we would like to see the organizers learning from the other big multigun matches. Others have referred to RM3G, DPMS-TG, and others as the "outlaw" matches, but from our experience and what we heard from others, USPSA multigun is really the "outlaw" match.

Email or PM me with info, too, please. Saturdays are not good days for me, but I'm interested in what ya'll got going on over there.

I have a custom POF build that I absolutely love. Sub-MOA (~0.75) with optics and the right ammo, and under 2 MOA with surplus Lake City and iron sights. Description: Rock River lower with 6-position collapsible stock (lower now has Timney trigger group - not pictured) Ergo grip POF 415 carbine length upper ABS carbon fiber 16" barrel - 5R rifling 1/8 twist, Wylde chamber Custom Samson carbine length rail Dreadnaught F2 compensator Hayes Research HK-style drum rear sight and hooded front sight (now has Trijicon Reflex II -not pictured) KNS crosshair insert for front sight

I just noticed on the Tiger Valley calender they show a 3-gun match for April 26th-27th, 2008. Anybody got any info on that one?

Any updates on having a Texas State 3-gun?

Interested in going, but I can only go if it's a group trip. Anyone else from South LA (EAPS, Tangi, Caj. Act., etc.) planning on going?