DaveInHawaii

Cool, it's all good fellows. Here's the back story...a while back I called Hodgdon to ask why their powder charges were so low for the HAP bullets. The tech support guy said that they found a difference in the thickness in the jacket between the two bullets and thus the pressure issues with HAP. That seemed odd because I thought they were the same design. So, I called Hornady and the guy I spoke to said he thought the jackets were the same but he didn't want to go into any details on load recommendations. Who knows? Hodgdon definitely feels there's an issue and I figured you guys probably deal with the HAP bullets more than anybody else. I wanted to keep my initial posts simple to not complicate things. I'll load some up, start low and bring my chronograph. Thanks for the help. Dave

Sweet, good idea. Much easier than going back and forth adjusting the Dillon to get different COL. I'll try that tonight. Thanks, DF

Hi, I'm with you on loading as long as possible. In this case it is for a CZ and I can go out to 1.090 on the Zero 125s. I have not checked the HAP 125 though. Thanks, DF

Great, thanks for the info guys. I appreciate it. I was impressed with the consistency, accuracy, and cool temp of the Silhouette powder I tried with some Zero 125 (.356). Thanks, Dave

Thank you for your reply. I'm loading for practice and don't need to meet any kind of power factor. I'm just looking for accuracy. Thanks, Dave

Hi, I want to load up some of the HAP 125 in 9mm. Published load data is hard to find. Hodgdon data is very conservative and seem to be concerned about pressure. http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/pistol They list Titegroup starting load at 2.8 and a max load of 3.2 (33,700 PSI) with a COL of 1.069. It's the same for HP38 but they give a max load of 3.3 with HP38. For you guys that load the HAP 125's have you seen anything weird happen with the pressure? Personally, I'd like to try these with Silhouette powder and I'm interested in using the load data they list for the 124 XTP which is: Starting load 4.6 to 5.4 max with a COL of 1.060. I would load it longer if it chambers. I'm wondering what your thoughts are? Thanks, Dave

Hi, thanks everyone for the great input. And hello to Kulaglock11...a fellow Honolulu shooter. If you go to the pistol range, I'm the tall, bald guy that is almost always shooting revolvers. I'm pretty sure I'll be able to figure the little CZ out I ordered some of the Precision Deltas and those might do the trick. The gun is harder to shoot with the short barrel. But, I don't think that's the issue so far. It sounds like I'm probably not pushing the bullets fast enough with the short barrel and lighter loads I was using. This is the rest that I use and you will recognize the view. (BTW, say hello if you see me. I'm usually at the range on Friday afternoons and Saturday.) Loading for the 9mm is definitely more of a challenge than my revolvers. But, it's helping me learn.

Excellent, thanks for the tips! What 147 bullet do you like for your CZs? Dave

Yea, I agree the 3" at 50 yards is not realistic. Or, maybe the amount of time it would take is not worth it. Part of the fun for me is finding out the potential of each gun. Take care, Dave

Good advice. Thanks guys. It does like those Zero 125 grain pills. But, it gives me fliers and there are some malfunctions due to the short chamber...so I should probably get it reamed. I did paint one of the rounds yesterday with a marker and got a nice ring where the rifling made contact. Actually, I don't think the barrel likes 147 grain bullets. That’s too bad because my other nines do like the heavier bullets. The gun is a CZ Rami which has a 3" barrel. I was shooting for a 1" group at 25 yards and 3” out to 50. I shoot steel out to 50 yards…it’s just for fun. From a sand bag at 25 yards, the Zero 125 JHP average just over 2" with the best group at 1.3". The 147 (Zero / Speer) groups average over 3". The 147 Zero JHP did pass the plunk test when loaded to 1.120. But, I didn’t realize the Zero 125s were too long until after the testing. I appreciate the help. Dave

Hi guys, I'm working up some loads for a new CZ and the short chamber is messing with my plans. I was planning on using Zero 125 gr JHP (.356) with Titegroup. I could not get the round to pass the plunk test and gave up trying when I reached an OAL of 1.070...and that was still too long. I have some 147 grain Speer TMJ loaded to an OAL of 1.130 and they fit the CZ chamber just fine. The only issue is they are not as accurate as I would like. I would appreciate any suggestions for bullets that have history of being accurate (50 yard accurate) and also have a profile can be loaded to a reasonable OAL with shorter chambers. Thanks a lot, Dave

I have the same barrel and the best bullet I have found so far is the Speer product 4006 147 TMJ. They have in stock at Powder Valley. The shape does well in the short chamber of my Kart Barrel. I tried Montana Gold and Precision Delta too and I prefer the Speer. The flat point shape seems to fit in the chamber better than the round nose bullets. At the upper end of the Titegroup loads it would go over 900 fps. I've settled on a lower charge of 3.2 to 3.3 grains. Accuracy was good at 25 yards...this was shot with iron sights.

Excellent. I will definitely order a few boxes. Dave

Cool, thanks guys. I am not competing so I don't care about power factor. All I want is accuracy. I'll try some of those XTPs. Thanks for that tip. I do have a little Silhouette and will try it again when I feel like experimenting. Thanks, Dave

The Bay...It's a beautiful calm day today. It's been windy lately. Today the bay is glass. I was out on a paddle a few weeks ago and came across my neighbor. He will be 85 and he's got his snorkel / fins on the back of his canoe. How cool is that!

Thanks. My load was also at the higher end of what's published. 3.5 Titegroup at 1.130 OAL. Dave

Well, I've been working at it for 5 or 6 weeks and I'm finally getting it figured out. I'm new to loading and I had a lot to learn to get the 9mm loads shooting tight. I appreciate the help, Dave This was my best group at 25 yards in mid March. Now I'm getting this:

Right on. Thanks so much for helping a novice out.. I will definitely bring my chrono to test these loads. I loaded some up to 1.115 OAL with 3.3 grains of tight group. When I tested the 147 Zero's previously at the longer OAL there were a lot of fliers with groups showing a 5" to 6" spread at 25 yards...and that was with a rest. My goal is one inch at 25 yards from a rest. I'm able to get under an inch at 25 yards with my other 9mm guns. With Federal American Eagle 147 grain loaded ammo I'm about 1 3/4" at 25 yards with the Kart barrel 1911. That's pretty good I suppose. But, I'd like to see it tighter. My middle aged eyes are quickly going downhill. But, on a good day I can shoot pretty well standing / no rest...so I don't think it's my shooting. But, it definitely has something to do with my loading.

Thanks guys. I think my original post was not stated correctly. I will try to clarify. I can load the Zeros to 1.125 and they fit fine in the chamber. However the accuracy was poor compared to the other bullets. The other 147 bullets i have (Montana Gold / Speer) prefer 1.135 OAL. The zeros are round nose and the others are flat points. I was just surprised that the Zeros can be loaded quite a bit shorter. I spoke to the Speer tech support about the OAL on their bullet and it's 1.130. The Speer guy said not to go under 1.120 due to pressure. So, i wanted to get your thoughts on the reduced OAL suggestion from Zero because i'm a little worried about excess pressure being new to reloading...and it seems like conflicting recommendations. The bottom of the Zero bullet has the lead exposed while the other two bullets i have are completely encased. Maybe that has something to do with it? Hope this makes more sense. Thanks, Dave

Thank you Jack. Sounds like it's time to bring the chrono to the range. I appreciate your input, Dave

Hi folks, I'm new to reloading and wanted to bounce this off of you. I have some Zero 147 round nose bullets. Most of the reloading info I can find on these types of bullets says to keep the COAL to 1.130 minimum. The plunk test tells me that my barrel likes it on the shorter side. I called Zero today and they said to the COAL for this bullet was 1.095 to 1.110. They confirmed that we were talking about the round nose and not the hollow points. That seems awfully short. Does anyone have any kind of documentation from Zero that can confirm this is correct? Thanks, Dave

Pictures make it more interesting. Here's the gun in question. I really like the feel of it. I got it used. It was made by Mike LaRocca. I was not familiar with him before getting the gun. It's really nice. I had Ed Masaki, an old time bullseye smith check it out and he said it was well made...didn't have one thing to criticize. Ed's in his early 80's now and will tell you what he thinks... The frame was from an older Dan Wesson Point Man in .45. I'd like to replace the front sight with a plain black sight. The fiber optic is a little distracting for me. I like the Bo-Mar rear. Take care, Dave

Thanks guys. I really appreciate your input. I loaded up some of the Speer bullets and MG 147s to 3.5 in TiteGroup. Does anyone know the Minimum OAL for the 147 Zero FMJ round nose bullets? I've heard such good things about Zero that I wanted to try some. With the chamber on my barrel I need to go with a 1.125 OAL and I'm wondering if that will be a pressure concern since the Zero's are the longest 147 gr. bullets that I have. Thanks, Dave

Thanks fellas. I have not put the chrono on it yet. I think I'll pass on the 3.6 max load of Titegroup. How about Silhouette powder. I'm finding the accuracy with that powder also increases at the higher end of the published loads. Is it more forgiving if I were to venture to the max charge? Thanks, Dave

Hi all, I'm having better accuracy loading to the higher end of the published load for Titegroup and 147 grain TMJ FN bullets. I'm shooting a 1911 with a Kart barrel that prefers 147 bullets. I'm using Speer and Montana Gold on a Dillon 550b. 3.5 grains of Titegroup is the highest I've gone. 3.6 is the max. My OAL is around 1.135. If I go longer than 1.140 they start to fail the plunk test. I'd like to try 3.6 grains but as a new reloader I'm a little concerned about going to the max. For example, a couple of my loads from last night were 1.129 and 1.130 is the minimum published OAL. Anyway, say I load for 3.6 and some 3.7 rounds make it through. Should I be concerned? At this point I'd be happy with 2" at 25 yards from a rest with these bullets. I'd really like to narrow it down to 1". Do quality hollow points, like Zero, generally shrink the groups? I have not found any hollow points in the 147 grain. Any tips of where to find some? Thanks, Dave