compulsion1984

You don't like the trigger on the gun? I like the Gieseelleleleleleee triggers. The short 3 gun trigger in it seems suitable. I don't think I would want a 2 stage like my long range AR. Someone mentioned the gun not being very heavy. The 3g is definitely lighter than some of the heavy barrel long range ARs out there. My form is probably not perfect, but my main problem is just sheer lack of strength. I haven't had a manual labor type job in 5-6 years and I haven't bothered to weight train until recently. Sitting at a desk with no rigorous physical activity invited atrophy. I'm working on that, but I believe that reducing the rifle weight a bit will help especially when I'm running around in a match. I think the carbon fiber upper will offset the Vortex HD 1-6 scope I plan to buy this spring a bit weight wise. I shot a 3 gun match in New Bedford MA (the only real multigun/3 gun match in the CT area that I know of) yesterday with my wife's pencil barrel and troy alpha rail upper. The ~1 pound reduction in weight and plain jane YHM comp that didn't excessively dip helped especially since I'm running on empty with some sort of cold sickness crap. I'm toying with the idea of tapping and plugging a port or two on the 3g comp. I didn't take notes when I was reading about comps, is titan the comp that's going to rupture the eardrums of everyone in a two mile radius? I was also toying with the idea of getting the rolling thunder, but I'm not keen on the whole adjusting / tuning to get it perfect. That would require range time with a non tacked / soldered comp and that's quite illegal here (screw CT). There's another comp that starts with an M that is a little cheaper that I was also considering... mc or muc something... It ran about $50 rather than $80, but I'm not really concerned about cost, if it's under $100. There's a rifle match in mid-late November that I plan to attend in MA, so I need to make a decision and act relatively soon.

+2. The SLP catches for sure (stock). I come in closer to parallel to the gun and it helps a bit.

Update on my ongoing drama. I received the FN manual in the mail (which I requested). It had a half page printout inserted which talked about the awesome new bronze piston. It states it only works with loads 1 1/4oz and above and that it's, as said before, totally awesome and life changing. I'm pretty sure there were references about it curing terminal diseases. Anyways, I went shooting yesterday with the intent to get more data to provide for future buyers or anyone who wants to see what shells work well with this bronze piston. Didn't go so well. During load 2 I got my thumb completely trapped and bit by the lifter, which I again can't have welded for 2 months because of upcoming competitions. It was the worst one yet. It was one of those instinctual reactions like touching a hot stove where I tried to pull my thumb back, which made it worse. I had to put the (loaded) shotgun muzzle down on the bench and use my non trapped hand to put the safety on and then dislodge my strong side thumb. I wasn't too pleased about that. Luckily it didn't rip off the nail or cause more than a little bleeding. Boy is it sore though. I tried Winchester high brass #4 with 1220 or 1250 fps. I don't have the box, but they failed about 50%. All winchester stuff I've shot, including AA, just doesn't work well. The only 90% success shells are still Remington Nitro 1300fps. I shot some more of the trial loads. Remington Heavy dove loads not only cycled badly, but the 6th-7th became lodged in the barrel after firing causing a complete failure. I messed with the bolt, re situated the shell that didn't load and had became ghost loaded, and tried everything I could. Eventually the bolt moved and ripped off the bottom metal part of the case. The plastic shell was still lodged in the barrel / chamber. I didn't have a gun cleaning rod, so that was it for shooting the shotgun yesterday. Luckily it came out easy with a tap or two today. I should change my name to Murphy. More updates to follow next weekend. I've had several shells stuck in the chamber so far, just not this bad. Is there anything that can specifically done to alleviate this? I'm thinking I might have something wrong there that is causing excess friction and may be amplifying all the failures to cycle. I could try to throw up a picture later if anyone thinks that might help.

I appreciate the comments. Here's a few other thoughts and some other things I could use advice on. The only con about the comp. change is that I would have to split the 3g comp since it's tack welded on. That's why I'm slightly reluctant to change comps. Whatever comp I put on I have to either braze on or have tack welded. If I do decide to get rid of the barrel I would like to sell the whole "stock" 3g upper since it would go eaiser and for more than piece parts. I couldn't do that if I cut the comp. I do have an extra upper receiver and I could pull all the upper parts off the 3g if I wanted to build a 75-80% new upper. This weight game is also important because I decided next year I'm going to buy a 1-5 or 1-6x scope. I am heavily leaning towards the Vortex Razor HD 1-6x, but the thing weighs like 25 ounces with no mount. I'm considering looking for other 1-4, 1-5, or 1-6s that weigh a bit less. The Swarvoski 1-6 is out of my price range and I don't like the reticle. My eyes aren't fantastic with glasses (I'm just the model of perfect genetics) and I would really like to get a 5 or 6x max optic. I never really looked at carbon fiber handguards. I'm definitely going to pick one of those up. The AP customs rail-less at rifle length seems perfect for me. I hate the samson rail. The 15" evo on the gun kept canting upwards. I followed Samson's instructions to install it, talked to them several times and still nothing. Eventually they sent exchanged it for a new one (good customer service), but it has the same problem. As an engineer I see the two allen screw attachment method as an inadequate and bad design; it's just not secure. Why have a 15" rail when your front sight is absolutely useless because it cants up? While I'm also ready to buy an MOE stock kit with buffer I realize there may be other factors. I've seen talk about lightening systems from (I believe) JP and others. I know nothing about these lighter systems. I read several threads, but most people just stated what they use, not how exactly they work or what the differences are. Are the buffers and bolt carriers lighter or what? At this point I'm willing to upgrade everything except the lower forging and trigger, which are both great. I will spend the money to get the gun exactly how I want it since I'll have it forever. Any helpful pointers or links to good threads are appreciated.

I picked up a used Stag 3g earlier this year during the panic and I've been pretty happy with it. Now that I'm starting to compete I've payed closer attention to it. The compensator pushes down and dips noticeably with XM193, which is what I normally use. The forward end is also a bit heavy for me. I'm a tall lanky guy with a thin build. When doing standing unsupported shots it affects my performance compared to shooting my wife's upper with a pencil 16" barrel. I'm working on training, but I'm not going to be ripped when I'm done so I'm going with a 2 pronged approach. I'm considering the following things. Please chime in if you've made some of these mods or have any other relevant input / experience. Replacing the current heavier barrel with a lightweight barrel to save some weight. These seems kind've stupid since the barrel on it is supposed to be accurate and high quality. Replacing the stupid mags llc eaf1x or whatever buttstock with a pinned magpul MOE (I live in CT). This would shave off half a pound and get me closer to the gun, which I want. Replacing the compensator with something else. I've seen recommendations for several types: rolling thunder, surefire, JP. I'm curious who has replaced their comp on an 18" barrel with (I believe) a rifle length gas system. I know that all variables have slight effects, I just don't know how much. I would prefer not to be deaf. Some people actually commented they like the muzzle dip from the comp so they can see their targets. I would rather have a slight rise or ideally no rise. The compensator is at the top of the list, but I'm tempted to buy a $200 palmetto lightweight barrel if I replace the comp and just have a complete barrel assembly replacement. Thank you in advance.

Another update. Left the action locked back for 10 or 11 more days. Did a thorough cleaning and re-oiled. I very lightly oiled the inside contact portions of the piston and used Slip 2000 EWL 30 on moving receiver rails / bolt parts. Went to the range again. I started off by shooting and patterning slugs with a Briley light modified extended choke. I shot 15 1500-1600fps Winchester bulk 2 ¾ slugs, 5 magnum Remington 2 ¾ slugs, 5 1560fps Remington regular slugs 2 ¾ slugs, and 5 reduced recoil win lites. The regular Remingtons and win lites patterned the best. The win lites cycled and felt very light on my sore shoulder (since I shot those last). I let the gun cool, then moved onto the regular shotgun range with a wider variety of ammo. The results worst to best: Win AA super sport sporting clays 2.75, 1350, 1 oz, #7.5: 13/25 fail, 52% failure Federal cheapo multi purpose 2.75, 3 dram, 1 1/8, #7.5 1200: 6/25 fail, 24% failure. (Previously I had 6.7% failure). Remington Premier nitro sporting clays 2.75, 1300fps, 1 1/8oz, #7.5, exceeds ATA velocity limits: 1/25 fail, 4% failure. The extra velocity made little / no recoil difference. Fiocchi Helice nickel plates 2.75, 1350fps, 1 1/4oz, #7.5: 0/25 fail, 0% failure. This stuff was hot and made follow up shots difficult. These shells had a “deep” crimp that hung up slightly when loading. As you can see the faster Nitro sporting clays and hotter Fiocchi worked well. I’ve got a few others I’m going to try soon. I was hoping after locking the thing open for a couple of weeks, shooting slugs, and shooting heavy loads it would work better. The higher fail rate with cheap federal leaves me to believe the thick viscosity of the Slip 2000 EWL 30 is detrimental in the receiver, I’m going to try regular EWL from now on. The thickness may be slowing parts down rather than lubricating as desired. I’m going to (sigh) thoroughly clean the gun again, oil it the same way with the thinner slip 2000, and go shooting again later this week. I have more 1 1/4oz loads to try. I didn’t want to shoot any more today because the gun was incredibly hot by the time I finished. My shoulder also has a nasty looking bruise. On a side note. Mechanixs covert gloves work great (with the load 2 method) on my left hand since I grab the barrel. I tried the vented and non-vented. The vented felt better (less stagnant and sweaty) at first, but after shooting 60-75 the glove became uncomfortably hot and I went back to the regular coverts. I imagine the vented will work the vast majority of the time in actual competition since stages aren’t 50+ rounds. In case anyone is still reading this. For the people who still have stock lifters / remember how the originals looked. Is the left fork of the lifter shorter than the right (when looking from below)? Mine is noticeably shorter, maybe 1/8" or 3/16".

I didn't bring it up (return for repair) with FN. If I still have issues after running the high velocity stuff I'll send it in. The 2 customer / tech support people I talked to offered no knowledge or troubleshooting, just rudely answered questions. They didn't say, did you try A B or C? I would hope they would take the gun back for warranty, but based on their responses so far I am strongly concerned they will shoot hi brass through it, say it's fine and only meant for that, and send it back unchanged.

Sierra77 and Perry you captured my thoughts exactly. I feel lied to. If there was a disclosure on their website, then all is fair. If they said they might not work then I would be venturing into dangerous waters knowingly, not buying a ~$1100 gun that performs worse than my $300 870. However, when information that common ammo won't work is not mentioned explicitly it's a pretty shady move. I understand that long stages are demanding in hot dirty environments, but when I load 9 into a cold gun and it jams several times I'm not abusing it. I should be able to shoot a tube without jams period. I'm afraid of what's going to happen when I DO abuse it in a 3 gun event. One of the reasons I wrote so much here is to try and help people who are considering buying this thing. I was under the impression that after a good cleaning and oiling it was flawless out of the box with all shells based on most other posts. I would have rather paid more for a gun that #@#&ing shoots from a company that isn't rude to me.

I started shotgun speed loading recently. I tried a weak hand 6 stack (with 4) and a carbon arms 8 round pinwheel. I find the load 2 / load 4 much faster with less practice. I suppose if you trained one way for a long time it might make less sense. I find doing the load 2 / 4 also a blast that gets my heart racing every time. When I weak hand load a shell or two I fumble more and find myself thinking, "is it over yet?" I'm going to try to learn to either weak hand load as a backup or figure out a good way to strong hand load 1 shell underside. The reason for this is because I want to be able to load a shell or two while moving. I think if I need a lot I'll load 2/4 and run. If I need 1 or 2 I'll load with the gun up and walk / jog.

Hello again, I'll start off by saying how appreciative I am of everyone. I got several PMs with various suggestions and a large response here in very short time. I've never had such a warm (or helpful) reception at a forum. Updates as of today. I hope the long post helps future people in my situation. I called FN tech support todya (rather than CS). My experience there was very poor. This isn't supposed to be an FN bashing fest, but my experience with them has not been good. I'm only pointing out what happened to me personally. Anyways... when I told him about my problems he quickly said I was using underpowered loads. After some prodding he said the "specs for the gun are 1 1/8oz 3.25 dram minimum". I asked him about the new single piston, which he sold as the best thing since sliced bread. When I inquired what loads it was designed for specifically he wouldn't say anything (the red and black both have specific load ranges). He told me that the gun is for home defense and not for target loads. I mentioned that the website and manual both list both pistons and (the website at least) mentions nothing about this shell specification requirement. He blew that question off. I politely asked for a light piston to be sent out and he refused; he went on about how the new one does everything. I mentioned that 2 pistons were advertised in the manual and online and I didn't think requesting a light piston was out of line. He more or less said too bad. I told him that was false advertising and he said he could send me to parts to BUY one. I told him I didn't want to buy one for a gun that didn't work out of the box, he still didn't care. He provided no suggestions how to get my gun running, just gruff short responses. He was rude the entire time. At this point I started getting pretty mad, which is atypical for me. Since him providing help was going nowhere I finally inquired about how the piston should be run (wet / dry). Several people here said to run it wet and I've run it light / medium oil and wet. He said the piston should be completely dry. I mentioned the manual says to light oil, he responded that the outside can be lightly wiped down with oil. I finally finished the call with him, so I would stop bothering him and he could return to whatever was more important than his job. I had him transfer me to the parts department. At parts I had a much better experience. I spoke with a woman who reminded me of a nice older lady you'd meet at church. She was pleasant and did the usual customer service rigmarole when the computer was doing things. Apologized for delays, that sort of thing. I explained that I only got one piston when I bought my gun. She was unaware that the shotguns now ship with one piston. After she got my serial and some info she proceeded to get a light piston sent to me under warranty. They're evidently back ordered, which is fine. My only worry is that they show up as discontinued on several websites and since new guns ship with the bronze color I don't know if I'll ever get the red. So parts remedied the situation completely to my satisfaction. I hope I eventually get a light piston in the mail that most people (with the exception of new gun owners) use. Went back to the range and poured more money into the gun. Bought some Win AA shells based on recommendations before hand. I shot the gun wet and dry in a little experiment since I like doing that sort of thing cause I'm a geeky engineer. All 2 3/4" 12 gauge. Started wet then transitioned to dry mid way through. I'll group the data by load rather than wet data then dry. My gun HATED Win supersport sporting clays (it says sport twice) AA 1300 1 1/8 oz 3.25dram #8. 7/16 failures wet, 5/24 dry. 43.8% wet fail, 20.8% dry fail. Federal cheapo field and target multi purpose shells 3 dram 1 1/8oz #7.5 shot 1200 FPS. Worked best the other 2 days and still today. 2/16 wet, 2/30 dry. 12.5% wet fail, 6.7% wet fail. Winchester super X gray box something or other 1255 1 1/8oz #6. Didn't run these wet. 10 / 17 dry. 58.8% dry fail. The difference between a wet and dry piston for me was significant. The gun performed significantly better with the bronze piston that was bone dry. It was cleaned with Gunscrubber, Hoppe's #9, and a tooth brush; no oil was applied. I'm uncomforable running it bone dry long term since it's a rather harsh environment for unlubricated metal on metal contact, so I'll very sparingly oil the mating surfaces between the piston and the shell tube. I thought it was weird that the heavier dram AA loads did worse than the Federal. It may be noteworthy that the AA has a rubbery / waxy smooth coating while the federal seemed to be ribbed plastic. The action was locked open another day which may have helped a bit. I'm about to go on vacation for a week. It will be locked open the whole time. I'm ordering a large variety of 1 1/8oz 3.25dram loads online tonight so they'll be at my door when I get back in town. The gun now has ~450-500 rounds through it in three sessions. If that's not broken in, then I don't know what is. Hopefully FN will send me a light piston soon. I will hold off on the Clay's piston (for $85 or 100) until I can try the FN light. Hopefully locking the action open will help. I'm going to look for burrs or any spot where the action might be slow next week. No one I know has an SLP, so I unfortunately can't try a light piston like someone suggested. I'm stuck in CT. Once the matches in october / november are over (if I still have issues) I'll mail the gun back to FN. If it works by then I'm going to send the lifter to C rums to get built up and have the slot cut into it. I do the load 2 method and I've almost hurt myself pretty bad 2-3 times already. Thank god I wasn't on the clock or I might've ripped off a lot of skin or a nail. Expecting a shotgun to cycle with 3 dram loads seems reasonable to me. It baffles me that the designers didn't accommodate that. I imagine they wanted to reduce recoil in lieu of compatibility. If the gun isn't designed for common ammo, then FN should have said so very clearly. There is a good chance I would have bought a different shotgun if I knew the manufacturer blatantly ignored lighter shells. I've never had such bad buyer's remorse at this point. Most people on the forums said if you clean it and oil it up properly it's fine after initial break in. I'm not sure if I have bad luck or the new piston is just ruining everything. Hopefully the medium-hot shells I'm getting online will work. I'm gonna get some of these and get my shoulder nice and bruised. http://www.midwayusa.com/product/126023/fiocchi-helice-target-ammunition-12-gauge-2-3-4-1-1-4-oz-7-1-2-nickel-plated-shot-box-of-25?cm_cat=Cart&cm_pla=ProductDesc Could someone please provide the specific part number at Brownells or midway for the glock extractor springs? I am an XDM guy and I'm not sure if there's multiple weights / sizes for different glocks. Again if anything new comes to mind please don't hesitate to post. I'll be thoroughly cleaning the gun and going out in 2 sundays if the ammo gets here by then. Also, I imagine there may be some serious friction or a hangup for the shells somewhere on the lifter, inside the receiver, or in the chamber. Any pictures (with arrows or something) showing areas you've polished or smoothed out to reduce friction would be greatly appreciated. I have the least experience (compared to pistol and rifle) with the shotgun and I don't know where to look, unless it's identical to a semi auto rifle. I don't want to do anything drastic since I may have this thing serviced, but if there's a burr or something obnoxious I may take care of it. Thanks again.

Hey everyone. I'm done lurking and finally joined. This seems to be the place to be for USPSA and three gun. I'm 29, stuck in CT and started shooting competitions this year after shooting regularly for ~10 years.

UPDATES / Quick Notes for new or potential SLP owners: Running the piston dry drastically improved my reliability. If you do the load 2 method (Carbon Arms pinwheels) there is a slight stop / something impedes it. It's do-able, but if you come in at too sharp of an angle the shells won't go in. At first the gun is very picky. Don't buy any shells in bulk. Start off with high velocity stuff 1 1/4oz shot. I'll start off by saying I started shooting USPSA pistol early this summer and have had a blast with it. I've been lurking here for a few months and found the site invaluable as a beginner competitive pistol shooter and recently multi / 3 gunner. This post is both a public service announcement and a desperate cry for HELP. I just bought an FN SLP Mark 1 (12 gauge 22") on August 14th of this year. I've been on every wish list I could find for several months and they finally came into Impact Guns, grabagun.com, and centerfireguns.com although they sold out in under a day. I was very excited because this looked like the perfect 3 gun shotgun for a reasonable price. I have not been so lucky. I'll break this into two parts, the what has objectively happened and what my thoughts are. What happened: Anyways, bought the new Mark 1 and it was delivered last week. I eagerly went through my new purchase to find no 2nd piston and no manual. I did get the 2nd choke, the worst choke wrench I've ever seen, and what appear to be sling mounts. I didn't notice the missing piston right away but I noticed no manual. I called FN and they said they don't ship with them anymore, but I can request one. I went home and gave the gun a light cleaning and oiling to remove the factory grease. I followed the manual exactly. Sunday I went to the range with my new gun and a pile of shotgun shells; all shells are 2.75" unless noted. I started off with Federal 3 dram, 1 1/8 oz, #7.5, 1200 FPS. Worked about 1/2 to 2/3 of the time. I got fail to eject, fail to cycle, fail to chamber (almost like the shell ghost loaded itself), and stove pipes. I tried Remington gun club 2.75 dram, 1 1/8oz, #8, 1145FPS worked 40-50% of the time. Same issues. FTF, stove pipe, phantom loading where the gun ejected and closed bolt without a shell. I also shot some winchester steel #6, I didn't keep the box, but I had all the same issues. I went through 150 shells on Sunday. I left the range frustrated, but with some hope. I broke the gun down completely used GunScrubber to clean out everything thoroughly and oiled it so it ran wet. I locked the action open for 2 days. I called FN today to ask about the missing piston. The representative informed me that they only ship with one "improved" piston now. He said something to the effect of why use two when you only need one? He also said this change happened about 2 months ago. The rep said light loads may not cycle. Anyways the piston in my gun is a brass / bronze color on the bottom rather than the red or black I read about. I don't know if it's a light or heavy or what. I'll call it a l-eavy piston. I was on general customer support. I'm calling technical tomorrow. FN's (digital) manual and website both still list 2 pistons. I went to the range today with a bigger variety of ammo that I specifically bought to try and get the thing to run. Again the gun was oiled "wet" this time. I used Slip 2000 EWL in case anyone cares. Same issues with federal and remington. I also tried Federal 2.75 dram, 1oz, #7.5 target, 1180 FPS which had similar results. Winchester 1 1/8, #6, 1255 was a nightmare. Shells would get stuck in chamber. The plastic was stuck or jammed in the action then the next loaded shell would get forced under it freezing the bolt. I had to force the bolt open while trying to knock the newly fed shell loose. These failed over 75% of the time. I tried 1290FPS, 1oz, #6 remington game loads 2/9 stove piped or didn't cycle. The only ammo that would cycle is the following: Remington 1330FPS 1 1 1/4oz, #4 shot express long range (double the price and I can't use in some matches). I also shot 5 Remington Slugger 3" Mag. 1oz slugs which all worked. Total round count both days combined is somewhere between 275-325 through the gun. There was no noticeable improvement after more shells, running it wet, or locking the action open for 2 days. Now my thoughts: I'm practically pulling my hair out. I essentially have an $1,100 single shot or manual shotgun at this point. I got 6-8 to shoot in a row with the federal once or twice, but the stupid thing will just not cycle. This is my first FN gun and I'm thoroughly disgusted. I had previously given them a lot of credit and admired the brand. I went from being super excited about my new buy to having two of the worst range days in my life. I tried searching about this new single piston here, but I had no luck. I feel like FN is "cheaping out" by not shipping a manual and shipping one piston with a gun from what I have read online can be finicky. The choke wrench is also an absolute joke. It looks like it's cut from a steel plate. Give me a decent wrench like I got with my cheap 870. I've got a 3 gun match early October and a shotgun only match at the end of October. Oh yeah, and I sold my 870 since I didn't "need" two shotguns. This ammunition pickiness is a big issue considering availability right now. I also don't want to have to buy the 10-15$ a box stuff when everyone else can run the $7 walmart stuff. I apologize for the wall of text. I try to be thorough. Should the piston be run slightly oiled or bone dry? Does anyone have this new single piston or know anything about it? Any other ideas to get this thing to work? What have you tried and been successful with? I read through every post I've found and done everything I've seen there short of removing metal. Thank you in advance. I'm going to call FN tomorrow to complain and beg them to mail me a light piston rather than the l-eavy one. I can't send this gun back before the competitions.