Hammbone
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Posts posted by Hammbone
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I LOVE theories... But there are to many variables in this one. Here are some things to ponder...
- if you load each bullet to the same internal case volume, the distance the bullet travels before engaging rifling changes with OAL length and ogive design.
-a longer bearing surface will by nature make a bullet more likely to be closer to perfectly aligned with the axis of the barrel, but if the twist rate is marginal or to slow, the longer bullet may not properly stabilize.
-the transition of the bullet from rifling to unguided flight is very important, the last thing to touch the barrel (back of the bullets bearing surface) has a very large effect on accuracy, more so than the bearing surface, in my opinion/experience.
-at what point do we see diminishing returns on increases in bearing length?
-bearing surface won't affect barrel vibration, many rifle loads are tuned for this effect, how much does it affect a pistol?
Without having all the answers I want... I have to ditch the theories and buy 124 gr jhp from Montana Gold because they are a great value and shoot extremely well... In MY gun. Ymmv
I completely understand where you're coming from, and I don't disagree with any statements you've made. I've pondered a lot of those points myself. It all boils down to this: I just need to start loading some experimental ammo and do some testing! As I mentioned, I'm JUST starting to reload (in fact, I still haven't loaded a live round yet). My problem was, I felt like I didn't have a solid starting point. So being that I'm an Engineer and I always over-think everything I do - I just had to compile as much data as I could get my hands on and start doing some comparisons.
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Thank you everyone for your help with providing information. In the event anyone ever needs this info in the future, I've taken the liberty to consolidate all the info I found and put it in one place. The data came from a combination of various printed load manuals, and various forum posts (BE and others). The last two loads are the two I am going to start experimenting with using the HS-6 and Berry's plated 147gr RN. (Reminder: Always always always use caution and start at 'starting' load. Specifically with loads not derived from reputable printed manuals. Also note that the starting loads from some sources are at and/or near max load of other sources - hence why I'm starting near the lowest listed.)
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If you haven't done so, you NEED to pick up at least two books, I have the Lyman #49 and Speer #14 books. You don't have to find data for your specific combo, you just have to find something close.
I attempted to do this. I got "Modern Reloading 2nd Edition" by Richard Lee, and I purchased "Reloading Guide for Pistols 9mm 357 SIG 40 S&W 45 Auto ACP (Pistol Series)" by Gun-Guides. Lee list a whopping one load with HS-6 and 147gr bullet (happens to be a XTP bullet). Turns out, Gun-Guides just copied Lee, so in the end all I have is one data point. So much for buying two books! I went to Hodgdon's website, they also only list one load with HS-6 and a 147gr bullet - SAME load as Lee & Gun-Guides.
For example, you need to find what the min/max for HS-6 using a 147gr FMJ bullet. Also keep in mind, the OAL will vary, the longer the OAL, the less the pressure is. Some guns like long OAL and some short, but this is why you make various and test them. If I don't see anyone reply by tonight, I'll grab my books and see if there's any data in there.
It would be great if you could let me know what Lyman and Speer have to say!
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I would start with a load and work it up. Pick a powder, primer, bullet, and OAL. Load it, chrono it and see what it shoots. Test the accuracy/grouping as well. Remember to work up the load, I like to make batches of 10, at different powder weights and OAL's. Find what works best in your gun.
Yes, this is going to be my plan. I'm just hunting to find a starting point. Like I mentioned, I'm JUST starting. I have all of my equipment but haven't actually loaded anything yet (I bought a LEE Classic 4-Hole Turret Press). I have over 1200 cases of brass (sorted by brand - mostly MagTech and Federal), I purchased 1000 WSP primers, 1lb HS-6, and 1000 Berry's 147gr RN plated bullets. I'm starting to second guess using HS-6, but I'm going to start with it now that I have it. I can't seem to find any load data with this combo - I'm actually finding very little with HS-6 and 147gr. I'm not doing any practical shooting competitions, so I'm not hunting for a specific PF. I just belong to a local indoor 50ft bullseye range that has a 1000fps max velocity rule that I'm trying to abide by.
The little load data I have found range from 4.3gr - 5.0gr start/max loads, and 4.3gr - 5.5gr start/max loads with 147gr bullets and varying OAL's. My plan is to make 8-10 batches of 10. I'll pick 2 OAL's. For the first OAL, I'll load 10 at start load, then 10 for each additional 0.2gr increment up to max. Then do it again for the second OAL. Our club has a chrono and I plan to use it. Although, the range is lit with fluorescent lights and I've heard the chrono may not work well with the 60Hz cycle of the lights - so I may have to do my test outdoors somewhere.
I spent some time tonight playing with my LEE Auto-Disk Measure. Just doing some statistical analysis of thrown weights over a range of disk holes. (FYI - my findings do NOT jive with the listed data that comes with the kit!) But it does seem to throw pretty consistently. For each disk hole, I ran 6 throws and dumped them right back in the hopper without measuring (just to give things a chance to settle in), then I measured the next 10. Doing this seemed to provide pretty consistent throws.
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What's your theory?
First I must preface: I'm just getting started at reloading. I've combed through a LOT of data. I find bits and pieces of info I'm looking for, but it's hard to find everything. So for example, say I can find load data for a 147gr Hornady XTP with HS-6 at a COL of 1.100". But lets say I don't actually have XTP's, instead, I have Berry's 147gr RN. If I know the XTP's average length .659" and the Berry's average is .669" (.010" longer), can I use the XTP load data and just add .010" to the COL listed? ...therefore, I leave the air gap between the top of the powder and bottom of the bullet the same.
Is there any logic behind that? Or is this just over-simplified wishful thinking? I also realize I just compared apples and oranges between jacketed and plated bullets...but that's more of a crimp issue isn't it?
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I'm gearing up to reloading some 147gr 9mm rounds soon. I need some help for those of you with calibers and bullet inventory. I'm looking for bullet length data (not C.O.L. of the entire cartridge, just the bullet itself). I'd like know the bullet length of the following bullets:
Montana Gold 147gr
Hornady XTP 147gr
Rainier's TRN 147gr
Rainiers RN 147gr
Rainiers HP 147gr
Speer TMJ 147gr
...and anything else 147gr you can through at me.
I'm a numbers guy. I've got a theory and I'm ready to start crunching some math.
Thanks
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I've been poking my nose around this forum for a while, finally decided to join. I've been 'actively' shooting for about 6mo now. Just started reloading - well, just bought the equipment, haven't produced anything yet. I belong to a very small, local, indoor pistol club. We just do bullseye type shooting at 50ft. I shoot a Beretta M9. Not "the perfect" gun, but it works well and I'm starting to get decent with it. One of our club rules is that all center fired bullets must travel below 1,000fps. This is mainly why I've decided to start reloading. Bulk 115gr NATO round 9mm are hard to beat on price, but the exceed the velocity limit, and the 147gr factory ammo gets expensive. Glad to be here, I've already learned a ton just by snooping around.
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Newb situation here: I just started reloading. I have completed 68 rounds so far. Why 68 and not 70 you ask? Because I have two LIVE primers that have liberated themselves and gone MIA somewhere in my garage! I'm freaking out! I CANNOT find them! I have two dogs and a 2yr old, all three have very curious personalities. What to do? Do I need to do a full lock-down and quarantine the garage until these are found?