Billf

Brian, I respectfully ask these questions. Supose the fire inside you returned this afternoon, and you wanted to shoot at your highest potential at the next 2 nationals and World Shoot. Would your round count change? This site contains many skills and techniques required in attaining top performance. But, if you wouldn't mind describing what your range practice tomorrow would consist of. Also what kinda mindset would you have, and what goal would you try to accomplish during the first week of practice? Thank you for allowing me to ask. Bill

I have been to several matches lately, on the way home I felt short changed due to lack of shooting (low round count match). Maybe this fella just having withdrawals and just getting his fix. I say let him shoot all he wants, the only thing he is really hurting is his score. If the guy is haveing fun safely , who cares about a couple of cents worth of tape.

We can have different opinions and still be friends, Eh? I think USPSA should have divisions Open, Limited, Production and Revolver. I think that everyone shooting a MAJOR match should be of the same class, COMPETITOR. Classifications should be something that individual clubs can administer and use at club matches. Tittles of M and GM otta only be earned by performing at a major match where at least 2 top dogs are present. Of course I have no problem with Woman, Child and Man categories. I do have a problem with a 21 year old being in the Child category. I think that Slots to Nationals should be given away in order of finish at a State/ Section Championships and Area Championships, and if more then one slot is available, top Woman and then top Child then back to order of finish etc.. I think that USPSA needs to be more consistent and not change things so much in such short period of time. Of course when laws of the land change then that is a different story. Changes should only be done in lets say 7 to 10 year periods unless it is a safety concern. INDY CAR = IPSC, STOCK CAR= IDPA, GO-Kart = IRC/ICORE, Rev folks don‘t get mad at this one I recall going to the drags and seeing these 9 and 10 sec go karts, dang where they cool. Fly weights, well there is bullseye (don’t get mad either folks, cause many of the shooters above can’t shoot them tiny little groups) . Got a bad knee but have a need for speed, there is the steel challenge or the handgunner. And then there are Pins, Silhouettes etc.. Just trying to make a point don't take it literally. USPSA does not have to please everyone cause it can’t, but it has a nitch that needs to be filled and we must market that. USPSA will always continue and it will keep growing especially if we stop diluting it. I would bet (remember Im poor, so the bet wouldn’t be hugh) that there are quite a few shooters that can win a match shooting open with a limited gun. Hell I recall someone who won a Nationals with a broken leg. I witnessed a rev shooter smoke a open bottom feeder for the win at a major championship. Oh and for you old guys, well there was this fella who could tapp them there targets faster then most of the young guys. And then there is this one fella who is King brides maid and respected by all in the shooting community. Don’t forget them women whom probably beat most everyone here at one time or another. Or that 17 year old that showed everyone how to do it at a World Shoot. Now why the hell should someone less deserving be put on the same pedestal as these fine shooters, without earning it......... Just my thoughts. Bill

Patches, Good post, you put some thought into it. You and I agree on lots of things, so do most of you here. I'm not here to argue, just offering, maybe a different point of view. Three weeks ago I was chasing the Silver Salmon, I had a 39 buck Fred Meyer pole, 30 bucks in gear and 15 bucks worth of herring. See, I'm a poor boy. Guess who caught the biggest and the most. By one of your points of view, my richer buddies would be rushing out to Fred Meyers and tossing those 200 buck poles and several hundred dollars in red spinners. Hehehe, I love doing that (I guess luck had nothing to do with it.....) Not everyone gets involved in the equipment race. Especially poor boys like me. I never had any of them high spookum guns until recently (last 3 years). I shot what I could afford and I gotta tell ya , I could compete in IPSC, IRC and the handgunner. I never once complained that top shooters where beating me cause of equipment, they did not complain either the few times I put the hurt on them. It took a lot of sweat and sacrifices to get those cool letter grades on my USPSA card . The same grade on the IDPA card was a given due to the skills I learned in IPSC. It took a lot of time, money and sacrifice (ask my wife) to put together those 3k each IPSC and IDPA guns and gear. I had the grade for several years but now that I have the gear I don’t shoot much matches any more (I practice a lot however). When I do shoot on the local level (within 500 mile) people would ask me what I'm shooting, when I tell them some would sigh and say “good I got a chance to win my division ”. Now what kinda attitude is that, they want a win with no competition. Tell me why would they even bothered to show up? The equipment race is an excuse in my opinion. What it takes to get that high letter grade is sweat and dedication. You don’t have to be rich. If you get that grade just on the equipment crutch or grand bagging you do not have the skill, just the title, and that degrades everyone else who earned it. As for the best shooter winning, well, that is not always true. Sometimes its the one who makes the least mistakes. What is USPSA doing to keep highly skill amateurs in the game? I don’t know, but inconsistency between matches at the championship level is not the key. Rewarding mediocracy is not the key either. The equipment race will always be , but you don’t have to play that game to play. Just my thoughts. Bill

Top of the line IDPA weapon cost nearly 3K . Which is what the top IDPA shooter here is using. The top IDPA shooter here is a 4 time IPSC State overall Champ. and 6+time State limited champ. He still considers himself an IPSC shooter but instead of teaching IPSC newbies he is teaching IDPA newbies. The IPSC powers at be here had a drawing for the slots to this years USPSA Nationals. No wonder top shooters are disgusted. The IDPA matches here cost more then the IPSC matches did, they shoot less and stand around more. I know the best shooters are in IPSC, but I also know that won’t last long the way things are going, their migrating or dropping out. How many “A” skill level and up IPSC shooters no longer shoot IPSC and why? What is IPSC doing to keep these highly skilled amateurs? I like to shoot lots for my money. I hate standing around and waiting only to shoot 6 shots. But it seems as most people disagree with me. Should IPSC change and be like IDPA. I don’t think so. I think that once IDPA folks shooting skill level increase they will be looking at IPSC for more intense shooting. The self-defense training that IDPA offers stops at the beginner level and those there for the training will realize that advanced self-defense training will have to be accessed elsewhere. Some will migrate to IPSC for advanced shooting skill training and testing, others will drop out. But it wouldn’t be the first time that I have been wrong. Have I got answers or attitude? I don’t think so, just sharing my thoughts. Bill

3K for any weapon is cheap if you consider the amount of funds spent in getting good with it (in my opinion the skill level of “B“ is good). Why is it that everyone wants to make everyone equal or a winner? We are not equal nor are we all winners. Most will never be a RL, BE, JB, TJ just to name a few. But you know what? We can get good enough to insure that those named above won’t go to sleep with some of our skill levels shooting the match. Hell I know, some amateurs put the pressure on these guys and make them sweat. Those who do, did not get there by making excuses. When I started shooting this game I shot what I already had, S&W 59 9mm. There where no red dots or super high caps, but spookum race guns with compensators where out for a few years. There where race holsters Ernie Hill was the one to have, I shot a thumb-break Bianchi model 19, because that is what I had. I shot heads up with this gear for a year, then I took a step up and bought a .45 but still shot from the same holster, cause the gun fit. I was poor, I spent what money i had on ammo. That was the days when IPSC was the fastest growing sport in the Nation. Whats so different today? I doubt it is the equipment. Could it be that USPSA is trying to make everyone happy? IDPA is an entry level game and by design should be, that is not bad as a matter of fact it is good. In my opinion USPSA will draw quality shooters from any discipline regaurdless if we try to or not, because this is where the best shooters are. We play with the best equipment we can get away with. We play with equipment that allows us to perform at the top levels and to experiment with our skills. The sky is our limit. Of course there is room for the beginner in our sport but leave it at the club level. There is no longer a IPSC/USPSA club in my area. The State Championships or Section Championships they call them today are reduced to a drawing for the shoot offs because they want to make some less skilled and undedicated shooters happy. All in the name of making the playing field equal. Well, guess what, the last couple of years attendance is way down. None of the past State Champions even bothered to shoot this year. Not even a letter “M” shooter showed up. I guess they succeeded in making everyone equal. Is my State different from others? How many folks (percentage wise) whom reached “A” skill level or higher no longer shoot matches? And why? That might be an interesting statistic and question. What is USPSA doing to keep highly skilled amateurs in the game? My thoughts Bill

Silly, I agree, in a match situation. However, there are many who could make that shot consistently on the clock in a race, don't you agree. Challenging shots should be required in matches. I believe that courses of fire in matches should be challenging to the A class shooter. But that is relative don’t you think - ie. the A class skill level of today against the Master skill level of 20 years ago. No shoots are much more intimidating then hard cover, that in my opinion is one good reason to use them. Use of the same targets at 22 yards, even out to 30, in my opinion would not be bad in a match, but I would reverse them and use the popper as the no-shoot (of course one could get a bit silly there depending on how much of the shoot target is visible behind the popper). I could think of one scenario off the cuff (using that target scenerio)that no Martial Artist could argue with, plus for those whom got sloppy or cant make that shot it would only cost them 1 No Shoot hit, enough to hurt ones score and/or motive shooters to practice. Bill

Applaud and bow to those whom desire and strive to earn and achieve higher levels. For they are the true reason that we compete. Despise those whom attempt to reach the level of M or GM by grandbagging . For it cheapens the title and degrades those whom have the dedication and earn it. Ridicule and spit on those whom sandbag intentionally to steal a win from someone who REALLY deserved it. Well, OK don’t spit, maybe passing gas on them would keep the attorneys away. Ron Ankeny It is my opinion that classes belong at the club level only. Section Championships, Area Championships, National Championships and World levels, there should only be one class, COMPETITOR. Divisions such as Women , Child and Man are OK. Open, Limited, Production and Revolver would be fine too. But do we really need all of the other divisions at matches, other then the club level? Is not USPSA supported financially at the Club level? Shouldn’t the club level be the arena in which we pat each other on the back, have fun and socialize with others of like mind? Shouldn’t Championships be the arena in which we battle, sweat and hurt for a win? Wouldn’t performance at such Championships be worth more then some letter grade, reached by shooting classifiers? Would it not be better if we reserved M and GM for those whom are of such dedication that they earn them at competitions where the best of the best where present? M could be earned at a Section and Area level and GM National and World? Just some thoughts. Bill

Ron, Sorry John for this drift. Great example and I see your point. My point is. Bonedaddy just wasnt thinking IDPA. . I'll bet next time in IDPA Bonedaddy will shoot it in the 5.5 range clean (considering that he wasn't lucky with the 4.8). When I shoot IPSC think IPSC, when I shoot bullseye I think bullseye, when I shoot IDPA I think IDPA etc.. But I have never been good at discribing my thoughts in words. If a C hit or a minus hit it worth the risk in a course of fire then by all means take it, but it is of my opinion that if the match competitors are of my skill level or higher, in both games. No course of fire is worth the risk of falling off the edge. So I always try to shoot for points and stay as close to the edge without risk. Doen't always happen but I have found that I place higher in both games shooting that way. Of course there are them times one just has to turn it on. Bill

Ron, Isn't the fastest time with the least point down the highest hit factor? John, IDPA is a different game in some respects, but it is still shooting. I think of it like driving in a new town, you have to be more aware till your familiar with the roads to get to the place of your destination, but driving is the same. Some of the courses of fire are like driving on the oppisite side of the road, but I recall driving in Australlia and I still got to point B without crashing and only slightly slower. Once your familiar with the road (rules and techniques) you can start driving from auto pilot again. I don't think its harder just slightly different.

IDPA is still a shooting game, I think the way they want me too, then shoot the target. I disagree with the way a few IDPA shooters think but I play anyway. It has its benefits. I believe it benefits my IPSC shooting to some degree.In my opinion the only benefit either have to self defense is that they are both means in which to motivate one to improve shooting skills. The goal in both games is to have the fastest times with the least points down. That is what it takes to win. Those who say they shoot only for selfdefense tactic training are usually the first to look where they place. Bill

Shoot lots of 50 yard stuff.... Lots of time to practice till Aug.. I put in for the time off to shoot your state IDPA match. I hope to see you there. By the way, I thought IDPA did not believe in 50 yard defensive shooting. Bill

Eric, I don't mind shooting such a stage as you suggest once in a while, but not every match LOL. My body is not what it use to be. Bill

Duane, To answere your question I went outside and shot the 50 yard El Prez. From my IDPA rig, concealed. Draw was 2.56, reload 2.81 my total time was 11.71, down 10 points. I just got home from work read your post and shot cold. Bill

Eric, If the 300lb trucker is a shooter and the 160lb soccer player isn't my bet is on the trucker especially if targets require any skill.....I recall when I was 180 lb in shape, fairly new shooter (C class) there was this guy named John Dixon (I bet he was pushing 275 or better)I don't care how fast I could run he was'nt far behind but his shooting was much better. He wupped up on me and plenty of others. LOL 20 to 25 yards in my opinion is plenty. If a person can do a 25 yard dash and then hit a popper at 35 yards or more, a 50 yard dash or crawl isn 't going to change his/her chances of missing. Just his/her chances of getting hurt. Bill