jcwren

We've definitely had a few issues. We did the Cherokee Gun Club match on the 2012-04-14, and had one Nook that had to be taken to the shade to cool off. It doesn't die, but the touch-screen calibration appears to get lost. Couldn't reliably score targets, and a few other things. 5 or 10 minutes in the shade, worked fine. We've also seen some odd behavior the month before, where the screen was less responsive to touches when it was in direct sunlight. Shade it with your body, it worked fine. Out of the two Cherokee matches, we've only had one scoring fatality. On the last stage for one squad, about 4 shooters from the end, it just hard-locked. Try to go into PS, you'd get the splash screen, but it was off playing with itself. We forwarded the databases to Ken & Co (if you ever talk to Josh, call him 'Kodak' ), but I'm not sure there was enough to analyze. The real solution is USE THE PAPER SLIPS, and try to back-up each unit after every stage (our units follow the squads). --jc (TY64641)

Currently there is no mechanism for marking a shooter as DNF, but I believe that's in the plans. If you're exporting the match back into EzWinScore, you'll need to do a missing scoresheets report and manually mark those shooters as DNF on those stages. --jc

I still maintain that an inexpensive device could be built to interface via Bluetooth to a low-cost tape printer. It would look like a Bluetooth attached serial port, and expect a specifically formatted string from PS, containing the stage name, date, shooter name, number, hits, etc. I know this can be done in Android, and imagine it can be done in iOS, too, given some of the peripherals that can be attached. --jc

The NS's are on the same paper target scoring screen. No more need for hash marks to add them up. As a bonus, NPM's are finally on the scoresheet as well. As noted previously, there is a minor UI issue for FTE's, since the penalty scoring box is on the screen before you get to the paper target scoring screen. The scorekeeper will have to tell the RO "hold on", go back to the previous page to tap the penalty box, call out the "1 FTE", and then go back to the paper target scoring screen, and scroll down to the next scoring row. Not too bad, but it does break scoring the flow. We just keep that tally in our heads until the end, then use 'Back' to go to the shooter screen and enter them then. Bouncing back and forth is a nuisance. And, as you say, breaks the flow. --jc

Yes that was the same concern this past week's MD had: getting enough people in each squad competent enough to use the devices. I and another person was grabbing a few people as they were standing around after they registered and showing them how to operate the device, as well as briefing them on our procedure to write down a copy of the scores on the squad summary sheets at each stage. (It was funny that out of 5 squads, only 2 squads were writing in the paper backups. The other 3 ran naked and skipped the paper backup.) Now as for doing the EzWinScore to PS push. This was a source for delay for us. We were thinking that we would make it easier for the squads by registering everybody into EzWinScore, tag everybody's squad number, and then push out to the devices. Registration went as normal were the last person made it into EzWinScore about 2 minutes after we took their money. It took more than the 5 minutes, I had budgeted for going back and setting squad numbers. The EzWinScore registration screen UI sucks for this with the Next button and the Save buttons being separated. The squadding drag/drop UI wasn't working properly. The shooters got impatient and starting shooting and recorded their hits on the back of their "take home" scoresheets. When the devices showed up at the bays, they transferred the data over into the devices. (Or should I say most of the data. Somebody went home with a pack of scoresheets that still had data that was not transferred over.) PractiScore was designed with squad level registering in mind: The shooter shows up at a squad, tells the scorekeeper he is joining the squad, and then presto: everything is all good once the scorekeeper enters the shooter information. To make this registration process faster, the device remember registration information entered on the device from previous matches, and provide autocomplete in the registration screen. To make this even easier, information from the EzWinScore masternames database can be exported to the devices. (There are a few issues with a shooter jumping squads and resolving this to be the same shooter, but Ken and his team know about it and have a fix lined up for their next release.) We had tried to by-pass the app design, because we didn't want to overload the squad leaders by having to teach them how to register shooters as well as how to do scoring. (Additionally, trying to enter registration on a small phone's screen sucks.) The other reason is that I wanted a definitive shooter number to associate with each shooter should things go catastrophically wrong and I had to go back to paper scoresheets. Was it worth the delay in the start of first rounds downrange? I think the jury is still out on that. There's got to be a faster way to do this. I think that Bill's idea for Level I matches of an iPad with an external keyboard maybe the way to go. And I need to update the registration form to make people enter a squad number during registration time instead of doing a second pass in EzWinScore. If somebody moves squads later, it can be fixed up on the individual squad devices later. At CGC, we registered and squadded in EZWS. It did take longer to export the registration file to the PS devices than I expected. Part of that me was not being able to find the data file, but that was a user error, not a PS/EZWS error. Didn't help that I was using a laptop with a 1920 x 1200 screen. Next time, I'm taking the 1024 x 768 laptop. Once we had the registration file on one device, we synced all the others against it. That all went pretty quick once I got the first device loaded. Sounds like you're using the iOS version of PS. In the Android, squadding on-device is a bit of a PITA right now. Rather than going back and entering squads, we're requiring people to squad *before* registration. That adds a small amount of incentive to get there earlier to squad with your buddies. We had a few squads that start shooting before the devices were handed out, and they did the exact same thing; used paper, transferred to device. We also used the 14 slips per page and recorded each shooter to paper after they shot. This actually saved our butts, as we had a device wind up with a corrupt database (as near as Ken and crew can determined), and we had to manually enter those 80 scores. We've made some suggestions in that regard, also. Mikes on steel are not shown in the summary page, and EZWS has no concept of steel vs paper on a stage design. This means afterwards you had to add the steel + alphas for entry into EZWS. Right at the moment, I'm really not so hot on squadding matches directly on an iPad or Android device, with or without a keyboard. EZWS is going to be the definitive reference for some time. I want to be able to get shooters I've entered on the device BACK into EZWS for next time (otherwise, you're assuming the same device every time, and that nothing wiped out the shooters you've registered before). It's all getting there, and when it's done, we're going to have a really excellent system. --jc

Yes quite true. This is one of the things we are considering if/when our club by a slew of devices -- probably Nooks. On a typical match, we run 6-7 stages. When hosting a large match we run 12 stages. So that means: 12 devices for the stage 1 device as master (i.e. the running backup) 3 (?) backup devices to hand out in case a device is going down. That's about $1300 worth of devices right there. Even if we went 7 stage devices, 1 master, and 2 backups, that is still $800 to layout. As a backup, for this past match, I actually printed out a set of "generic" paper score sheets that could be handed out as needed. Long-term, PractiScore is cheaper than paper. Paper is not without it's vulnerabilities (rain, coffee, people who can't write, etc). It's the cost of progress. Cherokee Gun Club was in a position to purchase 6. We do need a few more, since we need some back-up units, and some additional ones to handle GA State. Myself and Alan Adamson don't mind using our personal units as part of the back-up pool. You probably have some shooters that don't mind either. Considering using devices on just one or two stages. If you have paper, you'll have to use EZWS anyway. Import the stages you scores on PS, then enter the rest on paper. You'll soon discover that $1300 is a deal --jc

Have you tried a large heavy duty freezer ziploc bag, opened on the bottom so you can put your hand up inside to operate the Nook? We're going to try that in conjunction with a screen protector from iLoc that claims it will work in all conditions except a steady down-pour. The issue is that if you get any water droplets on the screen, it starts falsing. I can't seem someone keeping their hand in the bag the entire time, so I think the additional screen protector will be required. Unfortunately, a Nook fits *perfectly* in a 1qt Ziplock Freezer Bag. It's a shame it doesn't work We've also tried cling-wrap, and that just makes the touchscreen think you're pressing everywhere at once. --jc

It's fine. You just scroll down with a flick of the finger to get to the higher-numbered targets. It appears the platform of choice (a balancing act between cost per unit v. usability - I personally prefer iOS) is the B&N Nook Simple Touch. That's what the vendor uses, and you can get them from overstock.com for $80 each. Setup is a lot more daunting than on iOS, but the end result works and works well and a Nook runs all day and then some on a single charge. If you've got money to throw around, ... well even before you do that, I'd borrow someone's Kindle Fire and play with that. It probably operates more smoothly than on the nooks. People complain about trying to read color displays in sunlight (the only advantage of the nook e-ink display), but I think its easily read. I think (go look) there are otter box cases for the Fire that'll enable it be be used in the rain; if so and if the Fire can run 8 hours on a single charge just running this single app, THAT may be the way to go for the affluent club. Just to update one of Bill's points: On all the Android platforms you "flick" the screen to scroll. The NST has two buttons on either side of the screen, which will also scroll it. We find those easier to use than the "flick". On certain screens, such as the target scoring screen, if someone isn't an experienced "flicker" they could mark an extra target. Rather than have to fix it, we just encourage people to use the side scroll buttons to avoid it. --jc

Assuming someone has used an iPhone enough to be familiar with basic ios conventions (tapping, swiping, menus, etc), the Practiscore briefing shouldn't take any longer than showing someone how to fill out a paper sheet. It literally took me less than 2 minutes to get someone up and running. Piece of cake. We've scored 11 weekly matches (ranging from 13 shooters to 25 shooters, and 2 stages to 4 stages) and 1 monthly match (106 shooters, 7 stages) using PS, primarily on Nooks. One of the weekly matches (GA22) is done on a single Nook, the other (GA01) with two. For the outdoor match, Cherokee Gun Club (GA03) purchased 6 Nooks. We do merge to a iPad for uploading to the PractiScore site (however, the Android version will support this before too very long). We've taught at least two dozen people to use it, usually with in minutes. Currently, the one issue we have to work around is the inability to score procedurals on the target scoring page (for FTEs, typically). We've had a few growing pains here and there, but I can tell you that Ken and his crew are a pleasure to work with, and that we've made a number of suggestions that have been implemented, particularly as it relates to the Nook. I am *so* over using paper to score matches. I'm tired of people that can't bother to add columns of numbers, can't add columns correctly (thanks to the Georgia public education system, no doubt), and can't or won't cross total. With PS, I can generally get results up on the PractiScore site right after the match. The next day I import them into EzWinScore and upload them to USPSA. We've scored 4 classifiers using PractiScore. The only major operational issue we're dealing with at the moment is what to do about using a Nook in the rain. We've tried several solutions, but with unusable results. We've got a couple more ideas to try, but I think we'll find something that makes it more practical than trying to use paper score sheets in the rain. This is the future. --jc

I tried out a B&N Nook Simple Touch for today's match. It couldn't handle having a couple of rain drops on the touch surface (all input was just being ignored until the face was dried off), and putting it inside a ziplock bag was a non-starter because it could detect taps on big surfaces, but it quickly got confused when hitting small targets. But the big downside for us was that it couldn't keep up with a RO calling up scores. The UI refresh for eInk was just way too slow for scores being called out at a cadence of about a hit every second, particularly for 2 Alpha calls. On the up side, the screen readability is amazing, and it is infinitely faster than the Gen1 Nook. I picked up this unit primarily for scoring was going to keep using my older Gen1 Nook for personal reading, but I think I'll be using this Nook Simple Touch more for reading. No problems rooting the Nook I assume? For those using the Kindle Fire. Is it faster than the Nook Simple Touch? Yes, the Kindle Fire is much faster, as it's got more horsepower, but more importantly, a conventional display. eInk is slow, it's just a given of the technology, and what makes it so power efficient. The downside is that the Fire, like just about anything with a color display and high-gloss glass is that it's not very readable in sunlight. In an indoor range, it's stellar. It's also more expensive to replace when you drop it on concrete (@burningsquirrels). Since the indoor ranges we shoot at don't have plated walls, we have to configure our targets up against the backstop, for the most part. For scoring, I usually head down range and go *behind* the targets, following the RO. The indoor ranges we shoot in all have good lighting at the backstop, and plus you have the advantage that the RO is calling *to* you, instead of you being behind him. Of course, I'm probably increasing my lead levels, but hey, we all gotta go sometime. --jc

I just emailed the people at iLoc about this case: http://www.ilocstore.com/collections/all/products/iloc-nook-simple-touch-case-set-of-2 Their reply: "It is operable but can be a bit touchy in steady rain hitting it directly." Maybe with this case, and a simple mechanical shield, we can make this work. --jc

Myself and a friend been involved in getting PractiScore going for 3 clubs, so far. One club has just purchased 6 Nook Simple Touches from OverStock.com for $78/ea. This club has a monthly match with a turn-out of 80 to 100 shooters. We've also got two weekly clubs running it. We co-scored on paper as a back-up for the first match with each club, but dropped that for the next 3 matches. We've scored a total of 5 matches on it, and been *really* pleased. We're getting people up to speed on how to score shooters, but haven't yet trained them on adding and squadding users or setting up stages (that's PS 102 ). Ken and company has been fantastic to work with. We've worked through a lot of issues with the Android devices, and the Nooks (with their 16 gray level screens) in particular. We feel the Nook is the best bang for the buck, as most clubs can afford that, and a $30 access point. Break an iPad, you're out $500+, and they're hard to read in sunlight, particularly if you have polarized glasses on. The same is true for all color devices (although Ken says you can read a Kindle Fire in the Utah sun. I dunno...). The Nooks are easy to read in all but the dimmest light, and if you break one, well, they're cheap to replace. I have spent so much time dealing with people who can't be bothered to add a couple columns of numbers to cross-check scores, or make MY life easier when I enter them into EzWinScore, so I am *all* about PractiScore. I had to score a shotgun match with a pistol stage the other day, and I'd almost forgotten how --jc

Yes. NOOK rooting instructions can be found at http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1346748 I use the beta5 XU version. --jc

This is one of my pet peeves, also. As I like to say "It's NOT rocket surgery!". You hear excuses like "Well, the next shooter was getting ready", blah blah blah. It takes maybe 5 to 10 seconds to add the columns. And it's the ONLY way you can be sure you scored it correctly. I can't seem to knock that into some people's heads. Maybe if there was an AR-15 on the table and they lost it because some other scorer didn't add up THEIR columns correctly, they'd get the point. That's why I'm so excited about PractiScore. The Palm stuff was a possibility, but Palms were pretty much dead before I started shooting USPSA. While they were state of the art (more or less) during their heyday, they're small, not sunlight readable, and hard to read in any case. With these large format touch-screens, all this goes away. I've started collecting truly terrible scoresheets in what I call my "Scoring Hall Of Shame". I'd like never to have to deal with this again. The comments under the image explains each one. Bill, of course, will instantly recognize the problem on all these sheets without reading the text

Probably a wise choice, but I got a lot of people at one club who already have android smartphones and tablets, so I have to get familiar with that side of it as well. Is there any non-specialized android tablet around that is wifi only and doesn't cost an arm and a leg? PractiScore runs just fine on a Kindle Fire. Android, large screen, WiFi, doesn't require rooting. Apparently I'm going to have to go buy myself a tablet now. The wife is not keen on losing her Kindle to me 2 times a week --jc

On the half-cock theory, I don't need to re-cock to fire again. I *think* releasing pressure on the trigger then pulling it again breaks the next shot, although it may be that sufficient pressure on the trigger is enough. It doesn't happen frequently enough where I can offer an exact description, and usually it's in the middle of stage where I'm more thinking about where I'm (in theory) aiming and moving.

I've added a couple more pictures to the set of the other side of the sear and the hammer hooks.

I have an STI 2011 open gun that has recently developed an issue with the trigger "going hard" in the middle of a run. I'm told this can be a result of the over-travel screw being adjusted too far in. I've also read that this can cause damage to the sear. The problem is, I don't know what normal sear wear looks like. So I've taken some pictures of the sear and hammer through my microscope, and posted them on Flickr. Apparently because I'm "too new" (only been on the internet for 30 years, that should count for something), I can't post a link to the pictures, so burningsquirrels will follow up with the actual link. Is this normal sear wear at ~5000 rounds? Sorry about the quality of the pics. Had to hold the camera lens up to the microscope eye piece. I'd really like a trinocular head with a DSLR adapter --jc

I like that mag release button. Is that a button over a drilled mag release, or a complete mag release? And who makes it? I think that's what I need to prevent my "flipping" habit. --jc