saibot
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Posts posted by saibot
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OK, one last question on this issue. I was unaware that I may have been using the Lee FCD as some sort of "crutch", but that does seem to be the case. Lee gives fairly specific instructions as to how to set their dies. Do any of you have tips or tweaks for setting them (sizing, seating, etc.)? Should a completed round be able to pass a Wilson case gauge PRIOR to crimping? The RMR bullets have a healthy diameter - they say 0.355, but I measure closer to 0.357. Thanks!
If you are going to shoot lead, coated, or even plated bullets you would be wise to slug your barrel. Once you know the size of your bore, go .001" larger with a lead or coated bullet. Then do everything possible to maintain that bullet size through your process. Next time you're in the garage, pull one of your loaded rounds that has been through the fcd. I'll bet it's not .357" anymore.
Razor fish gave an excellent synopsis on how the fcd works. It seems a lot of people don't fully understand exactly what that die is doing. I believe that the reason the fcd works for some and not others comes down to bore diameter which have ranged from .355"-.357" in the pistols I've owned and slugged.
I believe that the carbide sizing ring in the fcd is also subject to manufacturing tolerances. In other words, one fcd might size a bullet smaller than another.
Whether or not an uncrimped round will pass a case gauge is dependent on how much you're sizing the case initially and also how much you're belling the case. Many of my uncrimped rounds will pass a case gauge as I bell the case the absolute minimum necessary and no more. I apply a very light taper crimp just to knock the edge off of the case mouth to improve feeding reliability. My crimp leaves absolutely no mark on a plated bullet.
There are so many variables in reloading which is why something might work for one person but not another. There have been a lot of good posts in this thread. Try to understand the reality of what is happening in YOUR process and adjust accordingly to get your desired results.
Very well put d_striker. On a Dillon XL650, the instructions that came with the FCD got it in the ball park, but required a lot of testing/adjusting to get it where I needed it. Even tool and die makers' tool wear out and tolerances in their wares may be on the other side of the tolerances of the barrel/bullet manufacture. You should see the threads on matching camera body to lens processes out there to compensate.
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Softest load isn't always the most accurate. I work up past what I need for minimum for power factor and try them at various distances to determine accuracy. For me, 4.2 grains over a 124g hp seem to be the most accurate.
Great point. The hotter rounds do tend to give my Glock better groups, which I'm guessing is due to better/more consistent lock up. I've done some experimenting with this in the past and have found some guns are more sensitive to this than others. Funny that the super tight/fitted guns like high end 1911/2011's seem the most sensitive to this, mainly on the first shot since the lockup is not the same. Explained why the first shot was always off from the rest of the shots. Glocks are, well...let's say built with more forgiving tolerances, and while super reliable, have a tendency to react differently to more/less energy in the lock up process.
And if you guys think I'm over the top with my pistol loads....well, you should see my process for my long range precision rifle.
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Just to circle back and let you all know how it went. I'm going forward with the following load:
SNS 125 RN coated bullet.
3.675 of Titegroup
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You guys sure are precise with your powder throws.
Hahah...ya that seems a bit extreme, eh?
As a sanity/safety check I will perform a bunch of throws after each adjustment and measure them until they settle out and stabilize, then put 4 on the scale and divide them by 4 to get a more accurate recording for my log book, hence the 3.675 number. I did at least round off the least significant bits from my Power Factor which was actually 131.125.
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Just to circle back and let you all know how it went. I'm going forward with the following load:
SNS 125 RN coated bullet.
3.675 of Titegroup
CCI 500 primer
OAL is 1.150
Light crimp from LFCD
1049 Avg FPS
SD is 12
Power Factor is 131
It feels softer than my 147 load and doesn't seem to smoke like some people have experienced.
Thanks all for the help!
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Great info! Thanks guys. I think I'll aim for 3.7 and work up a few rounds below and above to see what the chrono shows.
Any bullet seating depth considerations? I see 1.15 and 1.125 often used and was wondering if this just functions well or if there were other reasons like accuracy or felt recoil, etc. In the past I kept to a certain length because of my magazine limitations and feeding reliability, but thought I'd ask the experts.
(Soooo much easier than rifle rounds since that makes a huge difference in accuracy. Jumping/jamming lands, not an issue with a Glock because of magazine limits.)
Thank again!
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Experts-
I'm out of Solo and now have Titegroup and SNS 125RN bullets. Can anyone share a good load using TG and 125 coated bullets with me? This is for a factory G34 and USPSA Production.
Bonus info, OAL or other details/pitfalls welcome!
Thanks as always!
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I prefer the FCD for all, but I have had issues with it in the past with having it set incorrectly and swaging the round. User error.
I have a friend who used to Case Pro all of his brass, but now uses an extra FCD in an open station on his press to "Case Pro" the brass before charging/flaring it.
Sorry a bit off topic, but did want to add a little razorfish's comments on the FCD as a whole different animal than your typical taper die.
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Just some food for thought since I've been experimenting with this myself.
When I starting shooting Open, I noticed that my bad form was the root of my issue. I had to change the way I gripped the gun and my grip pressure to fix it. When I went back to my 34, I used what I learned and it made a huge difference. For me, it took shooting hundreds of rounds into the berm while observing the sights to improve things. I'm still refining, but as with most things in this sport, it was me, not my gear, although it took me moving to another gun to notice it.
In that same vein, I'm experimenting with grip pressure and recoil management. Honestly, I don't care how much the gun recoils as long as it returns quickly to the exact place it started. Again for me, I have options, just trying to see which one(s) work best all around. I can get an amazing grip (one type), but trying to get that particular grip 99% of the time at speed from the draw doesn't work, so trying to balance that with one that is acceptable that I can nail every time is something I'm still perfecting.
Sorry to muddy the waters...
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I would like to check that the safety block isn't being defeated by adjusting the trigger pre-travel settings on my aftermarket trigger. Is there an easy and accurate way to check? I thought I'd pull the extractor and try to eyeball it but I'm not sure that's going to work and thought I'd ask the experts here.
Thanks, all.
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By "relaxed," I meant "not tense." I'd grip the pistol as hard as I could - with equal pressure from both hands - without introducing any tremor or "vibration."
Well there you have it.
Thanks all for the great advice. Now off to test...
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I've been reading Brian's book again (always a gem!) and trying to figure out my grip and the right amount of pressure. Brian is an advocate of a very relaxed grip and letting the gun do it's thing as long as it comes back to where it started. I've noticed that with a 2011 doing the ole' 70/30 grip pressure works just great. But, the 2011 is out of commission and I went back to my Glock and oh boy, having some issues.
Trying to figure things out yesterday I put about 200 rounds into the berm, just watching the sights, and here's what I noticed.
I have to crush it with my support hand, and give barely any pressure with my strong hand to have it cycle and return to the precise place it started. It flips pretty dramatically and the slide doesn't lock back on an empty magazine. I have to get the pressure just right for this to work, and will take some practice to nail it without thought.
To get the sight back to where they started with lots of pressure, I have to crush the bejesus out of the grip with both hands. The sights don't move much at all, but if not crushed from both hands, it falters, too.
So my question here is which is right? Or use both depending on the need? I really like being relaxed, but not sure I could hose as quickly with the relaxed 70/30.
I'm also wondering if Brian's advice is mainly applicable to the 1911/2011 platform, and plastic/Glocks have to be shot differently. Seeklander/Vogal/Shannon who all shoot plastic advocate crushing the heck out of the grip.
Have any of you experimented with this? Any advice?
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Thanks HPJ!
After about a billion draws and many a new blister over the last two days, I think I have a solution, at least a working one, that allows for both dot acquisition as well as good recoil management. It's hard to describe, but it has to do with getting my strong hand on the grip a certain way, and MORE importantly, getting my support hand on the gun a certain way. I draw high and sort of "chop" the trigger guard with my support hand to index it. Then as I push strait out, my support hand rolls into position while my eyes pick up the dot. If I am relaxed (mainly my strong hand) and do most of my squeezing with my support hand, the dot appears on the pinpoint my eyes are seeing. It also has the extra benefit of much better trigger control since my support hand is actually doing something and my strong hand is nice and relaxed.
I'll need to get more live fire to confirm that's the way I need it to work and then burn it in with lots of dryfire, but it looks to be the ticket.
Anyway, I hope this makes sense and helps anyone else wondering the same thing.
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I ran a DP for a few months it made tight shots easy but I tried going back to the std Core and the field of view was so much larger that I realized the delta point was slowing me down. I feel I will get the best of both with the RTs2. It has a larger glass and shoots very precisely when I have shot with one. Good luck...
A Matt-
What is different about the RTs2 vs. the Deltapoint? What about the RTs2 vs. the new Deltapoint Pro?
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I'm having an interesting issue that I thought I'd ask the community for some input. I started shooting Open and have a STI, that I'm trying to get used to now that I'm not shooting a Glock, but in hindsight, this issue was relevant on the Glock, too, but the switch brought this to my attention. When I started shooting and defined my grip, I did it by drawing with my eyes shut, opened my eyes, then noting where the sights were. After a few adjustments I could draw and be perfectly aligned every time I came up on the target, and that is how I shot for years. My natural point of aim, NPA, defined how I held the pistol which had my right hand rolled around the grip, thumb moving way from the magazine release, which did necessitate the need for a extended mag release.
Switching to the STI, I did the same thing and again, needed an extended magazine release.
Now here's where it gets a little strange. I had a class with Keith Tyler and he had me adjust my grip back to the more traditional position with my thumb moved more toward the mag release, and I noticed that my recoil control was MUCH better, and I was seeing the dot lift like never before. My splits where much faster and the visual information was amazing. The trouble is that my NPA is way off. If I use that grip, I can't find the dot. And I have a very hard time consistently getting that grip which makes it even worse. I just stand around twisting the gun around trying to pick up the dot.
So, at this point, I'm at an impasse about what to do. Have a perfect NPA and give up the visual and recoil advantage? Or have a fast perfect index and just live with the lack of recoil control and less visibility (which is probably due to less recoil)?
Any thoughts?
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I thought I'd post a quick update here. First off, the mount is AWESOME! The thing is just perfection. I really love having such a small and light setup now, and there is just so much less junk in the way.
The sight in was painless and took about 30 seconds to nail it. I did a bit of shooting and then the dot went out. Turns out, the Deltapoint was defective, which was bad timing since we have Steve Anderson out this weekend for a class. I called Leupold and explained the urgency and they said they see what they could do. They got it on Wednesday, and knowing I had a class this weekend, got a new Deltapoint in my hands by Friday. Talk about great service!
Anyway, I sighted it in just before class and shot well with it most of the day and started to notice my groups getting low and opening up. I then noticed that one of the Deltapoint mounting screws had backed out and was just about to fall out. In my rush, I didn't LokTite the Deltapoint screws and had to crank it back down and rezero, which was a bit more challenging the second time. I ran into the issue where the windage and elevation adjustments were affecting each other and I had a heck of a time getting it zero'd. But alas, it seems good to go. I'll see how it holds up after another day with Steve and then get it setup properly when I have the time to do it right.
Overall, I am loving the new setup. There isn't a shot I don't feel I couldn't make. It's now pretty much a surgical instrument. I couldn't be happier with the mount. Thanks again, Matt!
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HUGE thanks to Matt for cranking out a Deltapoint mount for me. The thing is a work of art, almost too nice to screw on to my gun...almost.
I'll get it out, zero'd and tested and let you guys know what I think about the DP. I'll get some pictures up of it, too.
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Someone has got to know what mount that is. Anyone? Buhler? Whatever it is, I would love to try one.
I'm pretty sure it's just mounted in a dovetail on the slide. The all mounts Deltapoint comes with that mount.
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Wow, sounds like I can't go wrong with any of my options! You have to love that.
BTW, I emailed CK Arms to ask if their mount would work with my Delta Point, and Matt Cheely answered within a minute saying that it wouldn't fit, but, if I sent him my Delta Point he'd make one for me that would. Now that's service!
Kudos, Matt. Check your mailbox, you'll have my Delta Point shortly.
Any progress news ?
Not quite in hand yet since it took me a little longer than expected to get it shipped to Matt. He did ping me to ask if I wanted silver or black and said it would be here in 2 - 3 weeks. Fingers crossed it gets here this week since I have a sectional match on Saturday that I need it for. I'll post some picture of it one I have it so you guys can check it out.
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I really curious what kind of mount is using Chris Tilley on 0:24 on this video:
Seems to be Deltapoint not slide-mounted...
Wow!!!
I guess once I have the new mount and Deltapoint I'll be able to shoot like that too!
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Wow, sounds like I can't go wrong with any of my options! You have to love that.
BTW, I emailed CK Arms to ask if their mount would work with my Delta Point, and Matt Cheely answered within a minute saying that it wouldn't fit, but, if I sent him my Delta Point he'd make one for me that would. Now that's service!
Kudos, Matt. Check your mailbox, you'll have my Delta Point shortly.
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I need to get a Delta Point mount for my TruBor and thought I'd ask you all which one to get since I have no idea.
JV Industries
http://www.jvindustries.net/store/index.php?route=product/product&manufacturer_id=11&product_id=54
Aaredondo
http://www.arredondoaccessories.com/category.cfm?CID=1002,2029&PID=hj11h2926cqdmj&GID=
CK Arms
http://www.ckarms.com/store/scopes-mounts/8-rts2-sts-mount.html
Anything I'm missing?
As far as requirements go, I want it to hold zero. And the lower the better. Not a slide mount.
Thanks all!
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Any updates with this? I'm pretty disappointed that Zev hasn't addressed the issue (that I know of) and proposed a solution or upgrade path for its customers.
If you filled the holes on the trigger, would it still be "externally visible" and therefore be legal?
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Desperately needing some "group therapy," I got the long gun out and dragged it to a PRP match. The MD's were gracious enough to let me beat on the steel from prone for no score, and I have to tell ya, it was just what the doctor ordered.
One more week and I can start putting weight on it again, so if it goes well, time for dry fire and hopefully Speed Steel.
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I incured an injury to my hip a couple of years ago which contined to degrade to the point of a reconstruction a few weeks ago, which needless to say, has put a damper on my shooting and training. A typical recovery to the point of the actions required for USPSA shooting looks to be around six months.
Right now, I'm going crazy since I can't shoot or even put weight on my leg for another few weeks, then slowly, I can start putting weight back on that leg.
So any suggestions on how I can train? I figured once I can move around a little I might go and shoot groups from the bench, then perhaps start back competing in something static like Speed Steel. But until that point, I love to hear how those who have been through a long term recovery have kept from backsliding too much.
I will try some actual dry fire once I can stand without crutches but will be limited to non-momvent drills, and won't be picking up any mags off of the floor.
I seem to recall some folks talking about a computer program that can project targets on a screen and somehow knows when you're shooting them. That would be cool, but I would like to be able to use my actual STI Open gun.
Any other tips, suggestions, or otherwise?
Thanks guys!
I had hip replacement surgery the first week in January, I've shot a few indoor matches (3 to be exact) since then, 1 from a wheelchair, 1 from crutches, and 1 with a cane. Tonight is the first time starting on both of my own (unassisted) legs. Here's hoping it will go OK. I was going to do a Steel Challenge last Sunday but passed since I think I would tire out moving from stage to stage during the match. I'm playing it by ear, but am aiming at next month to try an outdoor match. Let your feelings guide you, just remember you will tire out faster, so if you get halfway through a match and are used up, stop, go home and try again later. This is hip surgery number 3 for me (this latest one was a revision of an earlier surgery). Good luck.
Bkreutz-
Wow, that's pretty darn cool! I've never seen a chair mounted holster before! Kudos to you for not slowing down.
Good advice on the effort of dragging your stuff between stages. My buddy has one of those little wagons that I'll just dump all of my stuff into and he can Sherpa it between stages for me.
Thanks for posting!
Gen 4 17 recoil spring help
in Glock
Posted
My guess is your grip. I've been experimenting with this quite a bit lately and have fired 100's of rounds into the berm just watching the sights and seeing how they track with various grips/pressures. It's been very enlightening and frustrating. We're all built differently so I'll speak to my experience, but the one thing that makes the world of difference is what I'm doing with my strong hand. Not the pressure of it, but the position. Vogle puts it best in this video where he describes not gripping it like a monkey gripping a hammer. You want to "pinch" it:
https://youtu.be/45QhpvY9LZc?t=28s
The rest of his video is good, but the mechanics don't work for me.
I can overcome a poor grip foundation with a deathgrip, but I pay in trigger control and being too tense to move fast. Building a good foundation with the "pinch" seems to allow flat shooting without as much effort.
And for what it's worth, I have two identical G34's and I played with spring weights a little with weekend and have a soggy 13# spring in one and new 13# in the other and was a bit surprised to see the heavier spring tracking much better for me. I had assumed the lighter would be better, being the common consensus, but it wasn't the case with my load (soft shooting 125RN/Tite Group at 131PF). Next time out I'll try a 14# and a 15# spring to see if I can find the "sweet spot" for my load, guns.
Anyway, my 2 cents is to burn up some ammo shooting into the berm and see where you need to be with your HW/SW. One last thing, do you care how much your sights move if they return exactly where they left?