lcarr

Quote: from Les Snyder on 2:45 pm on July 24, 2001 I tie a loop of "bungee" (tarp ties) around the center of the Choate trays to keep the shells from bouncing quite as much. I've got one of the Choate shell carriers and, if it is the same one I'm thinking of, I got my version from California Competition Works. They include a thin piece of lexan (right material?) with glue on one side to stick into one side of the carrier. The result is that the shells have less room to move back and forth and, after installing the piece (I didn't do it right away), I haven't been able to get a shell to bounce out. Lincoln

Quote: from Erik Warren on 1:43 pm on July 24, 2001 I like to hold the forend with my weak hand as I bring the receiver down to my waist and grab two shells from the Choate carrier. Then, angle the gun slightly to match the angle of the thumb feeding shells to the EasyLoader. ... That's the gamey way. Here's the "tactical" way, as demonstrated to me at a "tactical" shotgun match after I used my gamey way. Keep the gun mounted on the shoulder. Keep your eye on the Pepper Poppers, you never know when they going to attack. Meanwhile, nevermind that your front-heavy 10 pound auto is straining your wrist. Grab a shell with the weak hand and feed it into the magazine backwards because your eyes are looking for steel and paper "threats" downrange as you stand there in the open with a less-than-fully-loaded, low-capacity, slow-to-reload gun. I'm trying to mime this out here at my keyboard and I just tried it out dryfire with my 11-87. Let me try to read it back to you in my own words so that I know that I understand. From a firing position, with my support hand I brought the shotgun back until it was basically in the crook of my arm with the stock and receiver against my body. The loading port was facing upward, perhaps 35-40 degrees away from my body. I then chucked shells in as fast as I could using my strong hand. In this initial tryout, I used the Sidesaddle only. Just a note, I'd been taught to load from the shoulder. With about a minute and a half of practice, I was loading as fast or faster using the above method than with the shouldered method I've practiced for years! About the "tactical" reload staying on the shoulder, I've had a couple of shotgun classes with Louis Awerbuck and that's the way I was taught. However, he isn't really doctrinaire and, about "gamey" methods, if it works it works. The real "tactical" solution if your shotgun runs out of ammunition is to let it hang if you're using a tactical sling, dump it over your head if you're using a carry strap, or just shitcan it altogether; and draw your pistol Try that at a 3-gun match. :^) About the gun getting heavy when keeping it on the shoulder, I let the gun hang enough to take the weight off. I recall Louis telling people to do this explicitly if the weight got to be a little much. About sticking a shell in backwards, you mean you aren't checking the orientation of each and every shell by touch in the middle of a gunfight? :^) Thank you very much for your help, Lincoln

What is the fastest way to load a Limited shotgun? I see there has already been a thread on reloading open shotguns, but not much discussion of limited. Thanks, Lincoln

Quote: from lcarr on 8:41 pm on July 19, 2001[brAfter this feedback, I think I'm going to try the JP mount. I e-mailed them asking if they would do it with a Docter, which I like better and already own, rather than an Optima. As an update to share with everyone, I just got e-mail from JP saying that they only make an adapter for the Optima and that they don't think the Docter has the same footprint. So, it looks like one has to go with an Optima if one wants a JP "melt in" installation. Lincoln

Quote: from kellyn on 5:15 pm on July 19, 2001 The really trick thing about his set-up is that you don't need to pick your face up off the stock. You can get a really good cheek weld. The optima is mounted nearly (or exactly ??) in the same place as the rear sight for a ghost-ring gun. I use an Aimpoint and have to pad the stock as Patrick mentioned. I think the shotgun kicks you around a bit more when you have to lift your head up off the stock That's one of the reasons why I was concerned with using one of the various rails, e.g., the cantilever barrel, Vang Comp's vent rib weaver rail, etc. After this feedback, I think I'm going to try the JP mount. I e-mailed them asking if they would do it with a Docter, which I like better and already own, rather than an Optima. Thanks, Lincoln

I have a couple of questions about Open shotguns. First, with the new 10 + 1 limit for open, who makes +6 tubes for Remington 11-87s? I looked around a little on the web last night, but all I found were +5 tubes from Choate and Tacstar. Second, about sights, I have a Docter sight that seems like it would work well on a shotgun, but I'm unsure about how to mount it. I saw a picture of Michael Voigt's receiver-mounted Optima, but it seems to me, prima facie, that that position would be a little far back. Doing a little experimentation last night, it looks like the "perfect" position would be right in front of the forcing cone on the barrel. It appears I could get close to that with a Remington cantilever scope mount barrel, but would that place the sight too high? Would it be better to get it mounted down on the barrel the way, I think, JP is doing it? Or would it be better to have it back on the receiver as on Voigt's gun? Also, it seems like it would be better to have the sight on the barrel since the barrel to receiver fit on shotguns has a little play. Is this true or does it not really matter? Thanks, Lincoln

Regarding the difference between the top edges and the dots, from experience I'd say it's 3-4" at 25yds. So, take that for what it's worth. Also, _I_ find it a little visually distracting--it's very obvious once you notice it. Lincoln

The best setup in my opinion, for real world use with Glocks, is a Heinie front sight with an MMC single tritium bar rear sight. If I were not concerned with having an adjustable rear sight, I'd probably just go for the Heinie rear sight. If the gun were for competition only, I would forego any tritium lamps or fiber optic tubes and go with simple black sights. The Heinie front sight is serrated and has a Trijicon lamp, but no white ring. I prefer no white ring, although there are some lighting conditions where a white ring can be helpful. The MMC rear sights are built like a tank. However, MMC uses IWI lamps, which are not very good insofar as they lose illumination relatively quickly. I have three sets of MMC rear sights: a two bar, a one bar, and a two dot. The two dots are two or three years old and already dim. The bars seem to be holding up better. Using the single bar, or the Heinie single rear dot for that matter, gets around the problem, somewhat, that 99.9% of tritium sights have: the dots don't line up at the same point as the top edges of the sights. The single bar sights probably give up a little bit of elevation accuracy when using the tritium lamps only for aiming. Note also that some sights do not have the lamps centered correctly in the sights. It's something to watch out for. Lincoln