Glock3422
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Posts posted by Glock3422
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For hotels in Alabama, bullet proof.
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Denise, I think what was mentioned was taking all the things that would be donated to the prize table, selling raffle tickets, and using all the proceeds from the raffle tickets to cover some match expenses.
If there's a raffle, I'd want it to go to some charity or something...well, maybe the match is the charity.
But waiting to see how many tickets you sell does not do much as far as knowing your budget unless you sell them first, which is just a different way of collecting payment.
I thought Glock 3422 was saying I would save a bunch of money by not going to SHOT to work on sponsors, so I could lower match cost to shooters! But if I still go to get items to raffle...
It's a conundrum!
You travel cheaper than the guys I know.
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While there may be no direct cost to the competitors for the prizes, I would expect most organizers include the cost of the trip to Shot chasing prizes in the match expenses.
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Most matches won't be able to "cost less" with no prize table.
Don't spend that much of my budget on prizes!
Still have RO costs (food, rooms, etc.) Still have targets, bathrooms, admin, paper work, blah, blah....it goes on!
Dedicated RO's are expensive and for a big match, in order to get any kind of consistency, you need to have dedicated RO's!!
That's the biggest difference in costs for a big vs. your "local."
Just wanted to be sure you understand that "Big" matches won't be much/if any cheaper with no prize table.
Denise
Understood, completely.
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If matches cost less without prize tables, It wouldn't hurt my feelings.
If prize tables didn't have hidden prizes in envelopes "Wink", that would be better.
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Get yourself a MilDot Master. It works for meters and yards. It does not need to be laminated and has all your answers.
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"Anyway, I realize a lot of good stuff has come out of the different 3 gun hubs around the country, and the more ideas the better, but national professional sports have standards not just similarities between venues.
Team sports or individual sports, whatever the case may be its still relevant (Colt 3 Man 3 Gun). I'd like to see 3Gun as mainstream, more than what it is now, something widely accepted and well known. Maybe something that is even shot at an Olympic level.
Never going to grow like that if its not unified at the very least on what the rules are."3 Gun is not and will never be a professional sport. Some people get some support, but only JM and the AMU get paid to shoot.
Extend your analogy to baseball. T ball, little league, high school, college, minors, majors. They all use a bat and a ball, and each has different rules. Would you like to see a major leaguer coming to bat swinging aluminum? You wouldn't be able to find a pitcher.
You really need to adapt to the matches you think are worth your time and money, or only shoot the ones you agree 100% with. Your view is, thankfully, in the minority and outlaw 3 gun is safe.
There is substantial push back from sponsors for more and more product. It doesn't make sense that they keep doing it at greater levels. Almost everything on the prize table is converted to cash shortly after the match. That product competes with the product the manufacturer, distributor, and dealer would have otherwise sold. It is an unsustainable model. There will always be prize tables, but the glory days are waning.
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I'm not wanting to sound harsh here but I really believe excessive penalties for not shooting targets are nothing more than a fix for poor course design. If I as a stage designer come up with a stage that is so difficult that not shooting a target can result in a better score than shooting it, the competitors are not the problem.
I think there is also a common issue that many stage designers have in that they feel they must somehow design stages that will 'test' the top shooters. This mindset leads to stages that punish average shooters. The problem is you can't test the top shooters, they can only test themselves. They have the mental discipline to perform at or close to the top of their ability regardless of the stage difficulty. No problem for the best, punishing for the rest. If anything, the thing that will most often give a great shooter trouble is an easy, wide open stage. A stage that is so easy they don't put much mental prep into shooting it, or has some speed traps that 'seduce' them into trying to go faster than they can. A shooter walking away from a stage thinking, "man, I screwed that one up big time" is not a problem, walking away thinking, "I was screwed before I even pulled the trigger" is.
Way back in the day when I ran a lot of matches my goal in course design was always, 'is the C class shooter going to walk away from this match and say that he had fun'? If the answer was yes, then I felt I had done a good job. This does not mean that that match couldn't be challenging, just that the challenges have to be kept in balance. Keep the shots doable. Keep the targets past 200 yards at least 4moa, 6 would be better. A 3moa target at 300 yards is still no problem for the pros, but the average weekend shooter might as well just skip it and take the 30 second penalty. No matter what targets you put down range the best shooters are going to hit them faster, the only real issue is how hard do you want to make it for everyone else?
Lets use this example. We have a stage that has eight long range rifle targets at the end of it, between 150 and 350 yards. Our shooters are two top competitors and an average shooter. If the targets down range are all small, say 4moa or less. The two pros are not going to think about each other very much, it's focusing on the shots and applying the fundamentals that is important. The average shooter will not make all of the shots and pick up a bunch of penalties. Now make the targets huge, lets say 10moa. Now the two pros have a problem. They both know the other is most likely going to shoot the plates eight for eight, and it's not the fundamentals that are most important, it's how fast you can apply them. Each knows he HAS to be fast to win. So the bigger targets are going to put more mental pressure on the pros and the average shooter will still finish third, but at least he will have had a lot more fun doing it.
The question comes down to, who are you designing the match for? The 25 or so competitors who have a chance at winning, or the other 200 who are doing it just for fun?
My 2 cents.
THIS!
I stopped shooting our local (now big time) 3 gun a year ago because it stopped being fun.
It became about the out of town, logo shirts with big names in the game. Gotta challenge those guys. Hey, plate rack, off hand rifle at 100 yds. That will test them.
Ammo is still tight and too expensive to waste on stages that are either classifiers, or lazy steel challenge exercises.
The fast guys will always win, but you shouldn't design a 100 shooter match for 10 guys.
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I shot the same ammo out of a 16" and a 20". There was an increase of 50 fps.
Your experience will be different, but I would choose the length you would find more convenient. I would expect little or no increase out of a 22".
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I was at a primarily shotgun club one evening for an IDPA match. After the match, I'm carrying the shot up targets to the dumpster by the shotgun range. Eight or so guys are standing around with their shotguns having a conversation. I learned later that my unloaded handgun in my holster made them nervous. Really?
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You must love arbitration, and numbered paragraphs. You might want to apply for one of the AC jobs that are suddenly vacant.
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I always shot the classifier with a G21 and major power factor applied to SSP, ESP and CDP. I hate wasting ammo for an excercise that has nothing to do with matches.
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A governing body is only a benefit if they get it right. None have yet.
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You could contact your AC.
Oooops, you don't have one.
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Get a Mildot Master and worry no more. It has both yards and meters.
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All this reminds me of what was, and is said about sailors.....A bitchin sailor is a happy sailor.
I will defer to your experience on that.
The ACs from VA/MD, NC/SC and Arkansas decided to pursue other opportunities.
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There was alot of "dont step here while you shoot that way, or it's a match DQ", "dont break the 70 degree mark in this direction or it is a 180 violation, or it's a match DQ", "dont shoot those targets from past this spot, or it's a match DQ", "dont draw your pistol before passing this point, or it's a match DQ".... You get the idea. We had 3 DQ's on one stage. One guy drew his gun too early. One gun fell out of the holster mid stride, and one ran past the last spot you were allowed to shoot a certain target from but was still shooting it.Almost 10% DQed, which seems like a lot? Anything in particular going on?
Were the restrictions for the sake of safety or was it due to stage design. Was "don't draw your pistol before passing this point" to make the stage safe or was it part of the WSB?
The reason I'm asking is video of Stage 8 after a pretty good run through the woods, poppers were engaged from a box on the ground.
Stage design and safety... Because several roads were the direction your gun, on several stages, would be pointing if it was drawn or inside the 180, but a little one way or the other...
I was wondering about that too. Maybe they tried to jamb too much stuff in the available space and time.
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Does anyone know how many Area Coordinator positions are open?
I heard of three resignations yesterday. Not new, just recently.
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I've been kinda getting this feeling lately that some former Top Shot contestants especially the ones who were "Tier 1 Operators" prior to getting on the show are working on something.
These guys are younger and more in tune with the 20 somethings. Plus at least they haven't upset their prospective audience/customers with comments like "you all are just a bunch of dirt shooting printer repairman!"
Is this how 3 Gun Nation started up?
No.
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I have found that what irritates the "other side of the pond" is the way out of portion sensitivity IDPA fans have for any suggestion that IDPA isn't perfect. USPSA shooters are constantly discussing the good and the bad of USPSA without feelings getting hurt or ego's bruised. But the smallest suggestion that IDPA is not perfect set's off a wave of protest from it's true believers.
Kinda reminds me of
Scientologycertain religions.This!
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I'm president of our local non-affiliated IDPA club.
Your what? Either you are or you aren't.
IDPA or not IDPA.
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Do you mean to say that after all the long, hard, serious consideration by the Elite Tiger Team, it still isn't clear?
Did they spend all their time on spelling, punctuation and numbering sentences?
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Ahhh, secret site, secret handshake.
9mm Powders / Bullet Combo
in 9mm/38 Caliber
Posted
There is no published load for Clays and 147s.
It is being done, but someone who knows you and how will have to tell you.
Sorry.