9mm Lee Loader

[aprayinbear]

I recently picked up a classic lee loader in 9mm, hoping to make some reasonably price ammo to shoot in a P89. I found that besides the cost of the kit and a few accessories, I am able to turn out 9's (cast 125 grain bullets) at about $.14 - .16 a piece. That's a lot cheaper then most of the ammo I can find where I live, and as slow as the Lee Loader is, I find it faster then I imagined and pretty relaxing. I'm not one to "burn a lot of ammo", so this works for me.

So here's my concern. I have followed the Lee instruction tables as perfectly as possible. I'm especially careful not to "scoop" the powder, but to "dip" it so as not to increase the load. I also bought a case trimmer and a caliper to measure the oal. The Lee table says that with the bullets I am loading backed with 4.7 gns of Bullseye powder (the starting load) the minimum OAL should be 1.150. I tried to set the bullet seater so that I would end up with the 1.150, but quickly found out that there was some variance between finished cartridges. I know that compressing powder quickly increases firing pressure, so to be safe I reset the seater so that the finished dimensions are 1.152 - 1.1535. Is that a reasonable setting, and how much will the variance affect accuracy. Also, before resetting the seater, I had one oal measurement of 1.1485. Am I still within the safety zone for that cartridge or should I toss that round. Also, just for fun I checked the oal of cartridges in a box of American Eagle 9's. Variance was a much as .01 between rounds, so I felt a little better with my efforts.

I'm learning as I go, so I really appreciate all suggestions and comments!

[Graham Smith]

I must say that you have certainly picked a difficult way to do reloads.

You will find it very difficult to get a consistent OAL so if you can get anywhere between 1.145 to 1.155 you'll be doing well. You could probably drop the OAL to 1.135 before you get too short, but much over 1.150 and you may have trouble feeding the rounds, so best to err on the short side.

Also, you don't need a trimmer for pistol cases.

As for using Bullseye, that's not a very common powder for 9mm but if you are just plinking, any powder will work.

What you are going to find is that it won't take you long to realize that a single stage or a turret is a much better way to load small volumes. Check around and you might find a used press cheap.

[Boats]

I use Lee loaders but only for special jobs. Mostly loading at the range when trying different powders and bullets. The tool itself is capable. No reason for it to vary OAL any more than a fixed press. Weak point in the system is the dipper powder measure. So little fast powder in a pistol cartridge small variations mean a lot and it's not a accurate system without a lot of operator experience. I would never use one without a scale checking the dips.

Most of my range loading jobs are now done on a Lee nutcracker hand tool using standard 7/8 dies. It's a fully capable hand press. Measure pistol powders at the range with a Bonanza fixed rotor pistol measure. Like Graham said turrets are the way to go at home and used they are not expensive. Lee's new turrets work good too.

Boats

[G-ManBart]

I recently picked up a classic lee loader in 9mm, hoping to make some reasonably price ammo to shoot in a P89. I found that besides the cost of the kit and a few accessories, I am able to turn out 9's (cast 125 grain bullets) at about $.14 - .16 a piece. That's a lot cheaper then most of the ammo I can find where I live, and as slow as the Lee Loader is, I find it faster then I imagined and pretty relaxing. I'm not one to "burn a lot of ammo", so this works for me.

So here's my concern. I have followed the Lee instruction tables as perfectly as possible. I'm especially careful not to "scoop" the powder, but to "dip" it so as not to increase the load. I also bought a case trimmer and a caliper to measure the oal. The Lee table says that with the bullets I am loading backed with 4.7 gns of Bullseye powder (the starting load) the minimum OAL should be 1.150. I tried to set the bullet seater so that I would end up with the 1.150, but quickly found out that there was some variance between finished cartridges. I know that compressing powder quickly increases firing pressure, so to be safe I reset the seater so that the finished dimensions are 1.152 - 1.1535. Is that a reasonable setting, and how much will the variance affect accuracy. Also, before resetting the seater, I had one oal measurement of 1.1485. Am I still within the safety zone for that cartridge or should I toss that round. Also, just for fun I checked the oal of cartridges in a box of American Eagle 9's. Variance was a much as .01 between rounds, so I felt a little better with my efforts.

I'm learning as I go, so I really appreciate all suggestions and comments!

Hang on a second there partner Alliant gives a max charge of 4.9gr of Bullseye with a 125gr RN at 1.150, so you're starting pretty close to max, not at what most would consider a normal starting load....just something to keep in mind. Things like cases from a different manufacturer or with a different headstamp can raise pressures very quickly and that 4.7gr could actually be right at max simply by using a different case and/or primer from what Alliant used in their testing (Win SP, no mention of case brand.

A couple of other things and a few answers to your questions. One, compressing powder doesn't necessarily raise the pressures by itself. The fact that you're cramming more in there will raise pressures, but some powders are actually "safer" and more consistent when compressed slightly.

Now on to OAL: There will always be some variation because the bullets aren't perfect and the press isn't perfect. In reality, using calipers to measure OAL isn't the actual "proper" way to do it....you need a bullet comparitor, which almost nobody has. The critical measurement isn't the OAL, but how much case volume the bullet takes up. So, if you switch from one bullet to another, of the same weight, and one takes up more case volume at the same OAL, it's going to have higher pressures and velocity. The reverse would also be true. I say that so you'll know that when you add this stuff up you can quickly be way over book max with just a few coincidental factors....slightly different bullet profile, a charge that's a tenth or so heavy combined with a case of smaller capacity (from mixed brass) etc. That's why they say that when you change the load (even a new lot of the same powder) you should really start lower and work back up to make sure it's safe.

You probably aren't going to hurt the gun shooting a few that were at 1.1485 as it's not drastically below the book OAL....but I always like to set up the press so that my shortest load won't be shorter than the book load. Just make sure that the longest won't be close to hitting the front of the mag tube when you load them (they do move fore and aft under recoil sometimes).

I doubt you'll see any different in accuracy based upon the slightly different OALs as they're pretty small. There's enough variation in all the other components to spread the groups out that a slight OAL difference isn't normally going to be visible on the target.

Lastly, since it's gotten so cold here lately, I thought of one other thing. Some powders actually create more pressure and velocity when it gets cold, so if you develop a load that's right at max with one of those powders and it turns colder, you're going to be over max...probably not enough to hurt anything, but there's no use testing it. R,

[marmax]

That good info G-ManBart. I thought that was a pretty close to the max load. Also I would suggest a bullet puller for loads you are unsure of. They are cheap and a lot safer than shooting off mysterious rounds.

[TimKS]

I recently picked up a classic lee loader in 9mm, hoping to make some reasonably price ammo to shoot in a P89. I found that besides the cost of the kit and a few accessories, I am able to turn out 9's (cast 125 grain bullets) at about $.14 - .16 a piece. That's a lot cheaper then most of the ammo I can find where I live, and as slow as the Lee Loader is, I find it faster then I imagined and pretty relaxing. I'm not one to "burn a lot of ammo", so this works for me.

So here's my concern. I have followed the Lee instruction tables as perfectly as possible. I'm especially careful not to "scoop" the powder, but to "dip" it so as not to increase the load. I also bought a case trimmer and a caliper to measure the oal. The Lee table says that with the bullets I am loading backed with 4.7 gns of Bullseye powder (the starting load) the minimum OAL should be 1.150. I tried to set the bullet seater so that I would end up with the 1.150, but quickly found out that there was some variance between finished cartridges. I know that compressing powder quickly increases firing pressure, so to be safe I reset the seater so that the finished dimensions are 1.152 - 1.1535. Is that a reasonable setting, and how much will the variance affect accuracy. Also, before resetting the seater, I had one oal measurement of 1.1485. Am I still within the safety zone for that cartridge or should I toss that round. Also, just for fun I checked the oal of cartridges in a box of American Eagle 9's. Variance was a much as .01 between rounds, so I felt a little better with my efforts.

I'm learning as I go, so I really appreciate all suggestions and comments!

I'm think that 14-15¢ ea. is a lot if you're casting your own bullets. I can buy 9mm brass (2¢, primers (3½¢), powder (2¢) and 124gr. bullets (8¢) and load for that price. If primers ever get re-stocked again and go back to their regular price of less than 2¢, it will be cheaper still.

Edited December 13, 2009 by TimKS

[aprayinbear]

I recently picked up a classic lee loader in 9mm, hoping to make some reasonably price ammo to shoot in a P89. I found that besides the cost of the kit and a few accessories, I am able to turn out 9's (cast 125 grain bullets) at about $.14 - .16 a piece. That's a lot cheaper then most of the ammo I can find where I live, and as slow as the Lee Loader is, I find it faster then I imagined and pretty relaxing. I'm not one to "burn a lot of ammo", so this works for me.

So here's my concern. I have followed the Lee instruction tables as perfectly as possible. I'm especially careful not to "scoop" the powder, but to "dip" it so as not to increase the load. I also bought a case trimmer and a caliper to measure the oal. The Lee table says that with the bullets I am loading backed with 4.7 gns of Bullseye powder (the starting load) the minimum OAL should be 1.150. I tried to set the bullet seater so that I would end up with the 1.150, but quickly found out that there was some variance between finished cartridges. I know that compressing powder quickly increases firing pressure, so to be safe I reset the seater so that the finished dimensions are 1.152 - 1.1535. Is that a reasonable setting, and how much will the variance affect accuracy. Also, before resetting the seater, I had one oal measurement of 1.1485. Am I still within the safety zone for that cartridge or should I toss that round. Also, just for fun I checked the oal of cartridges in a box of American Eagle 9's. Variance was a much as .01 between rounds, so I felt a little better with my efforts.

I'm learning as I go, so I really appreciate all suggestions and comments!

I'm think that 14-15¢ ea. is a lot if you're casting your own bullets. I can buy 9mm brass (2¢, primers (3½¢), powder (2¢) and 124gr. bullets (8¢) and load for that price. If primers ever get re-stocked again and go back to their regular price of less than 2¢, it will be cheaper still.

Tim,

I'm buying ready made cast bullets and had to pay way too much for small pistol primers. I'm also including shipping costs, because I can't get anything but powder locally. If the price of primers drops and I can get them locally, I think I can save an additional .02-.03 cents per round.

[TimKS]

It's getting tough to find primers at a reasonable price, I know. I buy at least 5k or 10k at time to get the best deal, but even then they're high priced. I use plated bullets from Berry by the thousand, and order powder (Unique) in 8# kegs from Graf & Sons. When I need brass I do GunBrokers.com and buy 3-4 K at a shot.

I load 20-25 thousand round of 9mm a year, plus .357, 38's and some 45 ACP. I have a old turrent press that seems like it's so slow.......but a Lee Loader....wow! That pure bravery in my books.

Good luck with your reloading.

Tim

[G-ManBart]

I use plated bullets from Berry by the thousand,

Berry's 9mm 124gr plated $82/k.

Precision Delta 124gr FMJ $72/K shipped. (2k minimum)

Montana Gold 124gr FMJ $77.86/K shhipped (case price)

You're paying more for less if you're not getting some sort of special deal

[TimKS]

I use plated bullets from Berry by the thousand,

Berry's 9mm 124gr plated $82/k.

Precision Delta 124gr FMJ $72/K shipped. (2k minimum)

Montana Gold 124gr FMJ $77.86/K shhipped (case price)

You're paying more for less if you're not getting some sort of special deal

Thanks G-Man, I may give those a try. They'd take another penny off my load.

[saibot]

I used to load 9mm for my M&P on a LEE and when I went past 1.139ish I noticed that when a new cartridge was stripped from the magazine and pushed into battery that the bullet would start to engage the rifling. The problem with that, at least for me, is that when I "unload and show clear" the cartridge would occasionally separate leaving the bullet in the barrel. Seating the bullet at 1.135 and adding a little more crimp has fixed this for me. Probably just my load/gear/gun but thought it was worth mentioning. YMMV.