Clays, 124gr coated (not jacketed), need advice

[Kyle O]

Just worked this load up, I have a lot of Clays, so please don't point me to another powder.

I am shooting a 2.75" barrel, so to make minor

I'm using just about to 3.8gr Clays

under a 124gr rainier coated flat point.

velocity is ~1020 fps

PF~127

Any one see any problem with this? All of you wisdom is thanked.

kyle.

[Franklin D Wolverton]

You're flirting with the lower edge of the minor PF there (124x1020=126.48pf)... lose 12 fps and you are sub-minor.

You may want to load to a pf of closer to 130-135 (1050-1088fps)... clays is notorious for losing velocity as it gets warmer out. So if you load at 70 degrees and shoot at 90... you may not make pf. More than likely and extra .1gr will get you there... if you can do it safely.

There's nothing wrong with clays at all (except that it can be rather dirty and smoky). If it shoots accurately, and you can safely reach the velocity you want... go for it.

It's what I use for my .45 loads (200 lswc and 4.2 clays)... dang near went minor at Area 3 this year... was 100+ degrees when I went through chrono... and my first three shots averaged 164.8. Luckily... my second 3 averaged 165.2... This load chrono'd 168.7 at 75 degrees.

Frank

[Kyle O]

... if you can do it safely.

That is basically my question.

Has anyone done this safely?

[Franklin D Wolverton]

From the Rainier website;

We recommend using lead bullet load data when loading our bullets. Our bullets are jackted using an electroplating process and are softer than traditionally jacketed bullets; hence the recommendation. If you only have traditionally jacketed load data, please reduce your maximum charge by 10%. A roll or taper crimp works well with our bullets; care should be used to not overcrimp.

Give them a call and maybe they can tell you more about what you need to know.

Since you didn't list a cal you are shooting.... (the below data is from Hodgdon's website for Clays... for 125gr bullets [they don't list 124's) - lower and upper limits)

9mm Luger - 2.9gr (899fps) to 3.3gr (993fps) - WILL NOT MAKE PF

38 Super Auto - 3.9gr (1014fps) to 4.4gr (1063fps)

38 Special - 2.5gr (810fps) to 3.5gr (978fps) - WILL NOT MAKE PF

357 Magnum - 3.5gr (984fps) to 5.3gr (1260fps)

[Kyle O]

So sorry, I reckon that was an important clue.....

9x19

[revchuck]

Kyle - I know you don't want to hear this, but you need to try another powder. Clays is excellent where it works. Trying to make an unsuitable powder work just because you have it is false economy. The fact that it hasn't blown your gun up doesn't mean it's suitable.

IMO, you'd be better off looking at using something like Unique, WSF or Universal Clays. Even Titegroup or 231 would be better.

[Franklin D Wolverton]

If you're using Clays in a 124gr 9mm and loading at 3.8gr of powder... you are far exceeding Hodgdon's loading data.

The most you should use with lead bullets (what Rainier recommends) is 3.3gr Even with FMJ's it is only 3.7.

I highly recommend that you not shoot any more of this ammunition and that might want to look for pressure signs. Flattened primers an such.

You are not going to be able to safely get 9mm to shoot even minor safely with Clays with lead or Rainier bullets.

I would recommend (listed are the min and max loads):

Hodgdon Longshot: 5.0gr to 5.7gr (1052-1115fps)

Hodgdon Tightgroup: 3.6gr to 4.0gr (1002-1096fps)

Hodgdon Universal: 3.8gr to 4.3gr (993-1096fps)

Winchester AutoComp: 4.3gr to 4.8gr (1012-1101fps)

Winchetser 231: 3.9gr to 4.4gr (1009-1086fps)

Sorry

Frank

Edited October 19, 2008 by Franklin D Wolverton

[Taildraggerdave]

Kyle - I know you don't want to hear this, but you need to try another powder. Clays is excellent where it works. Trying to make an unsuitable powder work just because you have it is false economy. The fact that it hasn't blown your gun up doesn't mean it's suitable.

IMO, you'd be better off looking at using something like Unique, WSF or Universal Clays. Even Titegroup or 231 would be better.

+1

I was in the exact same situation and tried to make clays work as a 9mm powder and eventually shelved the idea and now swear by WSF for 9mm. I am using 4.5gr of WSF to push either a plain lead or plated 124/125gr RN projectile. Very accurate and very clean. I didn't want to have to get a second powder on hand either but am very happy I did.

[Kyle O]

I have only loaded 5 rounds of this stuff, so you all don't worry toooo much.

Only three went thru the pistol.

I knew I was exceeding published load data, but did so in very tiny increments, no overpressure signs were evedent.

I just wanted to ask if anyone else had done this safely.

I'm a bankwalker, but I know when to say when.

thanks,

kyle.