P99 Blues (even though its green)

[Pdwight]

Well I got back form my road trip and shot my new Walther P99 today, the gun functions flawlessly...but it is not very accurate! I shot several groups at 25 yards and the best one was just a tad over 8 inches!!! This is terrible. My P85 will do 1 1/2 inch groups all day long from this range and my Gold Cup will do under an inch. The real problem is with vertical stringing, the windage or X axis part of the group is only around 2 inches....but up and down is between 8 to 10 inches!! I use two different types of factory ammo also, Hydra shock and American eagle 9mm. I will have to do more research...if I can’t improve it this baby is going to the gun show for sale.

Thanks

Dwight P

[Carlos]

Sorry to hear that. My initial thought was that the Walther (not that P*O*S S&W copy) might give the Glock 17 /34 a run for its money in USPSA Production class - it has the desireable features of an adjustable backstrap to really fit the shooter (fit is important) and a QA or "quick action" model with a shorter trigger reset - albeit with a factory setting of over 5 lbs. Sadly, the bore axis is too high - much higher than say the Steyr M series - although there would appear to be potential in the Walther.

Please let us know if your gun turns out to be a lemon or whether that accuract is common to the Walther. I suspect you got a bad one and perhaps a part is broken.

[Duane Thomas]

Why the bad opinion of the S&W?

[TMC]

I'm with Duane, why the bad opinion of the SW99?  Mine has the Walther name right there on the frame.  I like it much betther than my G19, better trigger and not as snappy.  Accuracy seems on par with my glock.

(Edited by TMC at 8:38 pm on Oct. 7, 2002)

[Carlos]

I sell both the Walther and the SW99 at work. We have had limited feedback from customers since both are so new, however the SW99 feedback indicates that it jams whereas the Walther owners praise the reliability of their guns.

Why else? Fit and finish quality. The lowers are identical and both are manufactured in Germany; S&W only manufactures the upper components.  However, the finish on the Walther is a true Tenifer finish as used on the Glock; the EPA will not allow the use of the chemicals required to apply Tenifer in the US so the SW99 uses a different, and less-durable finish. More important however, is the finish quality of the guns compared side-by-side; the Walther is simply higher quality. Now, I know that looks are deceiving as we have all seen in the excellent, but rough-looking CZ 75s, but in the case of the SW99 vs the Walther P99, the quality differences seem to extend to reliability and I don't care for any production guns that regularly jam.

I am not surprised at the S&W99 faults after our own experience with S&W's Sigma; my brother bought one after coveting my Glock but not being able to afford the higher price. The sigma is such a close copy that its slide fits right on my Glock (but has different firing mechanism). Only the Sigma jams and has a weird trigger profile that pulls the whole gun off target - not to mention the lack of reduced power connectors for the Sigma. Has that experience soured me to S&W's new autos? perhaps -  although one of my first autoloaders was an old model 39 alloy 9mm that shot extremely well and was 100% reliable so I know that at one time, S&W could build and excellent autoloader- maybe their customshop still can.

I have no problem with their revolvers - in fact I just bought a used 686 and in shooting it so far, it lives up to all the good things I hear about S&W revolvers.

And I have to give S&W a lot of credit for their change of attitude/ownership after the outcry following their contract with the Clinton administration (check out their new policy statement on the website). Good work, S&W - I no longer have a problem with their politics.

However, I cannot say anything good about the Sigma or S&W99 autoloaders since in my experience and the experience of my customers who have bought them, they do not work properly. No, the S&W99 is not a sigma - apples and oranges, etc. But the fact remains that the 99s we have encountered jam with regular factory loaded ammo (we do not sell reloads).

I'd like to hear more about your experiences with your S&W99s; perhaps the ones we sold were a bad batch or maybe they had early production problems - if so, I would not want  a potential buyer to pass up what could be a good budget production gun. So, can you tell us how many rounds you have fired so far? What works best? Any jams? Apparently, you both had good results as far as accuracy. Did you get the QA trigger of standard trigger? How does it compare?

Again, I was surprised to hear of Pdwight's accuracy problems and I suspect a part is broken on his gun since none of our S&W99 owners complained about accuracy - just reliability.

[Carlos]

Got to thinking of those BE'ers who may have a SW99 or those contemplating the purchase of one so I did some more searching to provide a reasonable explanation for the problems I see with the gun. On the thread "Malfunctions in a P99?" over on http://www.pistolsmith.com I found a reasonable reply by a P99/SW99 fan acknowledging some early difficulties with the gun - a portion of which follows (perhaps the design/execution will improve?) Feel free to disagree and decide for yourself - the choice is up to you:

""As one of my armorer certifications is for the SW99/P99 Series of pistols, and I carry one that has had a lot of rounds fired through it, I have a passing familiarity with the design. I’m confident the design is a sound one. The trigger is a subjective preference, but for duty issue I’m satisfied with a 12lb DA & 6lb SA pull.

It’s not at all unusual for a weapon design to experience “teething pains” during the first few years of its introduction in the marketplace. Walther isn’t the first or only manufacturer to experience this, and it won’t be the last. If you were to make a list of all of the “upgraded”, “enhanced” & “redesigned” parts of the Glock series of pistols, it would probably scare the daylights out of someone unfamiliar with the quality of the current production models.

The Walther P99 series, and its S&W licensed version, will probably be with us for some time to come, as it’s a sound

design. It’ll probably continue to benefit from minor upgrades and enhanced parts … like the Glock … And thereby

become a more refined pistol … like the Glock … And gain an increasing share of the public and L/E markets … like the

Glock …. And gain fans from both markets … like the Glock … And introduce more new models, in new sizes and calibers … like the Glock …. And besides, Walther isn’t exactly a new kid on the block when it comes to designing weapons, and the name has earned respect in the firearms world for a reason.""

[Carlos]

One more source of info for those interested in the Walther/S&W and perhaps they could provide an answer to the verticle stringing accuracy problem:

http://www.waltherforums.com

Regards, D.

[TMC]

Thanks Carlos, thats great info.  My SW99 has been 100% so far with about 500 rounds (mostly my reloads) through it.  I know only one other person with a one of these guns and he has not shot his.  When I have encounterd people on the range who ask about the gun no one has passed along info on the jamming problems you speak of or any bad new.  I have found that people are always more willing to pass along bad reports than good, hence my ignorance of any bad reviews of the SW.

[Pdwight]

Update on P99, I cleaned the gun and went to the range today with 115 gr. WInchester. GUn shot much better! I managed to get several 10 shot 1.5 inch groups offhand at 15 yards..for IDPA this is all I will ever need.I suppose it was me not being used to that trigger pull! However there is one thing to report on 3 ocasions when I broke the gun down to change the sights and other things I noticed the first shot would print low at 7:00 (5 to 6 inches) even though after I reassembeled the gun I dry cycled the gun several times. ?? I dunno

I will keep you guys updated as progress goes on.I plan to get a holster this afternoon and 2 more magazines soon. Best price on Mags ?????

Thanks

Dwight P

[Duane Thomas]

You might consider letting someone else, say someone with serious experience benchresting handguns, fire the thing. No offense, it might not be the gun.

[bonedaddy]

Guys, did I mention that I LOVE my CZ-75?  

[Carlos]

Pdwight: for Walther/SW99 mags, check out:

http://www.cdnninvestments.com/walther2.html

They seem to cost $29.99 ea. for factory 10 round (I think the "factory" actually has them made by Meggar, but check with the  Walther forum guys if you need to verify that) as well as Pro-mag brand for substantially less $$$.

I can vouch for CDNN - I order from them all the time (both guns and accesories). Their service is excellent and name brand products are as advertized - some of the more obscure stuff - just make sure you know exactly what you are buying because the descriptions are a bit sparse. If its not in stock, don't expect a raincheck as they specialize in closeouts - when its gone, its gone.  

[TMC]

When I went looking for extra mags for my SW99 I was told that the P99 mags are not the same and will not work.  If you buy them make sure you get them for the right application.