Tumbling reloaded ammo? The best BANG for your buck?

[Shoot-4-Ever]

Just looking ahead to when I start reloading .38's on my new 550. Right now I have seating depth problems, my OAL seems to wander a little while loading copper Rainier's. I think I asked about this in another post.

Years ago when I loaded my .38's I used lead bullets that had a gunkie coating that would build up inside my seater die and had to be cleaned often or I had seating depth problems. After loading up a batch I used a towel and hand wiped every round to get this gunk off. It is like a waxy grease substance, but these are solid semi wad cutters (no plating or jackets) without the lube groves as found on some bullets, it's a complete coating.

Some questions...

I do have a Dillon seater die that comes apart easy for cleaning, however I will be loading at a rate of about 49 times faster than before, will this gunk really be a problem to worry about when loading these bullets on my 550?

Could I tumble the bullets in some special media that would help remove the excess gunk?

Can I tumble completed rounds to clean them up? My first thought is not to do it!

Most everything I read in my loading books and manuals say never do it. On the other hand, I don't really see how this could be a problem if done properly in the newer style vibratory cleaner media. Is it just a liability issue when they say no?

Problem is, I have tons of these bullets left over from years ago so I want to use them if possible.

So...I ask more questions .......

Who tumbles loaded rounds?

Who tumbles loaded rounds but won't admit it?

For those who won't admit it, perhaps you have heard of a guy who knows a guy who may have tried it before and maybe is still doing it?

Why - why -why?

Your thoughts on this would be very helpful to me.

thank you!

[Franksremote]

I've tumbled loaded rounds without issue. Just watch how long they're in there. My poly/moly bullets would lose the coating and JHP would tend to have media stuck in the hp. I find that the Hornaday One Shot keeps my rounds nice an slick for chambering anyways, so I leave it alone now and no longer tumble those. My gf's match loads with JHP get a wipe down with a cloth and some rubbing alcohol on them instead of digging media out of the hp. YMMV

[Irate]

I heard of an incident once where a guy left a box of rounds in the back of his vehicle. This was his daily driver and the rounds got a lot of vibration. The vibration caused the powder to corrode against itself and make a very fine dust. The rounds were sitting primer down and the powder settled in the primers. When he fired them, he got massive pressure signs and tried to figure out why. These I think were rifle rounds and were obviously vibrated for an extended period of time, but just goes to show you what can happen. I don't think you have to worry about powder dust in your case, but this was just an interesting occurrence I thought I might share.

I don't tumble my 45 rounds after loading them with my 550, however I also have seating depth consistency problems. I don't really worry about it unless I'm loading rifle ammo.

There I think I've said enough

Irate

Remember, it's just a nickname, I'm actually a very happy guy

[uscbigdawg]

I tumble EVERY round that I load. To date, it's somewhere over 100k in .38 Super, .40 S&W, .45 ACP and 223.

If you're concerned about rounds torchin' off from something bumping the primer, think carefully on how much mainspring you have to move that firing pin and how hard it gets hit to ignite the primer.

My normal reloading process with say a bag of fired brass (we'll use .38 Super as an example):

- Brass from the bag, and tumble it in walnut

- Roll size in my Case-Pro

- Throw 'em in a box and spray liberally with One Shot

- Throw 'em in the hopper and knock 'em out

- When done reloading, throw in the tumbler to clean off lube

- Case gauge and box 'em up

Too easy. Even if a round were to go off inside a tumbler, remember, what makes a bullet fly. The path of least resistence. The round is confined on all sides (except at the bullet) by the chamber and breech face. Pressure builds in the case as powder burns and the path of least resistence is down the barrel. Voila.

In a tumbler, there is nothing providing 'real' resistence on the round. IF (and that's a super small if) one were to ignite, you would hear little more than a pop and when you turned off the tumbler ('cause you probably wouldn't even hear it over the sound of the vibration) you'd find a bullet, and maybe a damaged case).

Ammunition companies tumble their rounds when they come out of the Camdex's (or whatever loader they're using). It's safe.

As for your bullets, just check your OAL say every 100 rounds (i.e. when you have to refill the primers).

Rich

[Carlos]

I tumble most of my loaded rounds (except JHP).

Never had an issue & I use only Federal primers (they are the most reliable brand).

Powders include V V, Solo 1000, Clays, power pistol, 2400, Antique, 4756, 7625, TG, 231/HP38, and many others I do not recall.

[DougCarden]

Double +1 to Rich's post!

When you tumble use a capful of lacquer thinner in with the media to take off the lube, whether it is case lube or bullet lube...

Rule of thumb, if you are running JHPS....use really fine walnut, or if it is lead or fmj you can use corn cob. The little corncobs get into the bullet nose, get stuck, and they fall out of the nose when the gun chambers and that little minute little chunk will seize up the gun like it is broke..........it is scary until you find it......or you notice it in the bottom of the ammo box and have to clean up the rounds at a match you drove over 1000miles to attend......you get the picture

It is OK to tumble loaded rounds, 10-15 minutes max. I use Dillon lube faithfully and keep a couple of cans of One shot around in case I run out of Dillon lube.

Hope this helps...

DougC

[Jim M.]

I tumble loaded rounds, and have done so for years with no problems. However, I only tumble .38 Special and .45 ACP target rounds, and that is to get the excess bullet lube off. I add about one fluid ounce of mineral spirits (paint thinner) to the walnut shell media, but I have the biggest tumbler Lyman ever made. You might try it with less mineral spirits, if you decide to tumble your rounds at all. The mineral spirits are very volatile, so you will have to add some each time you tumble. Neither the tumbling nor the mineral spirits has ever caused any problems for me with primers, etc.

Logically, all of that friction of powder grains rubbing against powder grains in your cases during the tumbling has the potential to break down your powder (physically), making ignition faster. I use only Bullseye in the two calibers in which I tumble loaded rounds, and that seems to be unaffected by the tumbling. If you use some other powder, particularly long stick types, you might keep that in mind and try to keep your tumbling to a minimum. Since most rifle cartridges don't have lubed lead bullets, I have never needed to tumble those.

Build-up of lube and/or lead in the bullet seating die is the most common cause of varying C.O.L., so you are looking in the right direction.

You mention the Dillon bullet seating die, and that is very handy if you are loading cast bullets with heavy lube. I want to mention one other possibility. One reason that you may be getting too much lube build-up in the seating die with lubed cast bullets is an incorrect adjustment of the belling die. In my Dillon 1050, that is in the powder drop stage. You don't want to bell the cases too much, because that causes case neck splits after just a few reloads. However, insufficient belling will cause shaving of the bullet lube (and, if it is really bad, some of the bullet lead itself), and that will build up in the bullet seating die. If you have to clean your seating die too often (more than every couple of hundred rounds), try increasing the belling slightly. The Dillon bullet seating die is great to use (and clean), but that ease of use shouldn't cause you to ingore some other problem, like insufficient belling, which will cause the lead and lube build-up.

Case length is important in target loads, because it determines the amount of belling that a case will get with a certain expander/powder drop die adjustment, and also the amount of crimp that will be applied. For best accuracy, trim your cases to a uniform length. So, I don't mean to suggest that it is unimportant. However, variability in C.O.L. is not usually related to case length.

Don't tumble lubed cast bullets before loading. Doing that would remove the lube which is necessary to keep the bullets from leading your barrel excessively.

I haven't run across any coatings on copper jacketed or plated bullets which causes a problem in loading. Copper jacketed or plated bullets can usually be tumbled with no adverse effects. If you decide to experiment with that, tumble a few hundred and load them, then shoot those before you tumble any great number. The bullets may have some special lube which makes them shoot better, although I haven't heard of any except Moly-Kote, which is quite obvious. Tumble such jacketed bullets (if you decide to try that) in your normal walnut shell media with a small amount of mineral spirits.

My suggestions:

First, try slightly increasing the belling of the case mouths to see if that reduces lube and lead build-up in the sizing die to a tolerable level. The ease of cleaning the Dillon bullet seating die makes this level quite a bit higher.

Second, if you have excess lube on the outside of the loaded bullets or, particularly, just above the case mouth where it would interfere with seating of the cartridge in the chamber, give the tumbling a try. Use a bit of mineral spirits in the media so you can keep the tumbling to a minimum.

Let us know how this works out.

[Shoot-4-Ever]

Very good info from you guys. Thanks a bunch.

Jim,

Some very detailed ideas and suggestions. Much of it would be normal procedure for me but you have hit a few points that I can see would help me out. You no doubt have had about the same experiences. It's the switch from the Lyman Turret to the Big Blue that I am slightly concerned about. Don't want to gooo it all up and have it slow down the process.

This info I am gathering is for the near future, I still have a little more work to get Big Blue up and running with my .40's. I think I will go to 9's next then I want to try some .38's. I haven't loaded a .38 in about 16 years +/- but I think I can remember how to dump in some BullsEye and grip a crimp on some lead. I hope that Big Blue will crank them out at maybe 250 or so per hr. with all the tinkering with the bullet lubes and die cleaning etc.

Keep Posting ! ...

[Jim M.]

Shoot-4-Ever:

I hope that Big Blue will crank them out at maybe 250 or so per hr. with all the tinkering with the bullet lubes and die cleaning etc.

It's nice to see someone start with the kind of expectations you have! I would like to be around to see the look on your face when the 550 just about doubles your expectations.

If you are spending as much time tinkering with the bullet lubes and die cleaning, look for the source of your problems, rather than just put up with them. Not all bullets are created equal. If you have problems with lube build-up in your bullet seating die, you need to check everything, starting with the case belling. If you have a reasonable bell and you still have to clean the bullet seating die more than every couple of hundred rounds, try some different bullets. If your bullets have the lube sloppily applied, or are made of too-soft lead, you will have problems that another bullet might not present. Don't be afraid to try a box of some other brand.

The Dillon bullet seating die is easy to clean, but it is not all that fast. I still have to pull the locator pin, then remove and set aside the charged case. Then, I can pull the clip on the seating die and drop the insert out the bottom of the die. I keep two short cleaning rods on the loading bench. One has a bore brush for the size die I am using, and the second has a patch holder. I also have a couple of custom made tools for pushing out the pin and removing the seating insert (sometimes helpful if the die has a large buildup of lead which keeps the insert from dropping right out). Those were made for me by a machinist friend (I load his .38 Special target loads in exchange for such things!). Those aren't necessary and not really much faster, but they just make the job less of a chore. After you have cleaned and re-assembled the sizing die insert, you have to put the insert and clip back in, then the charged case and the locator pin.

From that description, you can see that the cleaning process is still a bit of a chore. If you believe that you are doing it too often, look for the cause. Don't just put up with it because the Dillon die makes the chore less of a nuisance than other dies.

Any cartridges that you are loading with jacketed or plated bullets are almost a "gimme". They are so easy to load that you probably won't have any problems at all. It is the cast bullets that separate the best loading equipment from the rest. Of course, the most savings are in the cast bullets (and they are also necessary for target loads in the .45 ACP and .38 Special). That's where you will appreciate the Dillon the most! They handle even those crappy loading jobs with ease.

[amlevin]

I've tumbled finished rounds for over 30 years with no adverse effects. For the first 25 years I never heard anyone say I shouldn't but for some reason it is a big issue now. I remember cases of ammo that made their journey in 'deuce and a half's to the helipad, flew miles into the firebase, LZ or were dropped from varying altitudes, and still fired very reliably. Not too many tumblers today that can match the vibration of a UH-1D or C-130.

Rounds I expect to store for any length of time get some silicone car wax added to prevent any surface corrosion (it gets wet here in the pac nw).