Clays Not Making Major

[chunger]

I am using Winchester primers right now, but they were purchased at discount at a gun show and they are the old type (silver) and I have no clue how old they are. I have almost used them up, so next chance I get, I should head out to the gun show and pick up a sleeve of new winchester (brass colored) primers and see if that makes a difference.

OAL is ~1.22 not 1.25 . . . my books are telling me 4.0 grains of clays is max load, and I'm a bit hesitant to bump more than 4.1 grains because last time out, I was starting to get 100 fps variations and I've read that Clays gets spiky and scary at its max pressures. But you've got a lot more data and experience w/ the stuff. My reloading choices and results good/bad are my own liability, but in your experience, do you still think 4.2 is reasonably safe?

-'Chung

[HSMITH]

Yes I do think it is safe in my guns.

Here is what you do, back it down to about 3.6 and load 10. Load 10 more at 3.8, 4, 4.2. 4.4, and 4.6. Take them to the range and set up the chrono. What is going to happen when you really start pushing clays to the max is it will flatten out, slow down, and then start showing wild swings. What that means is that you will see 2 tenths increase gain 20 fps (numbers totally made up for the sake of discussion) and that will continue relatively linear as you go. When you start pushing pressure you won't gain any velocity or VERY little, when you push a little more it will actually slow down and at that point will probably start flattening the primer edges just a bit. Push a little more and all bets are off. Somewhere around 4.2-4.4 it will clean up, get more consistent and more accurate. In my guns this has been around 172-174 power factor. As long as you are seeing relatively linear velocity increases with charge increases I would continue into the low 170 power factor range without a bit of hesitation.

In 45 you will have to be WAY off the charts to even get close to the point where Clays goes screwy. 9mm and 40 operate much closer to that point.

I can send you a couple books that list 4.7 as max at 1.25" with a 230 FMJ if that will make you feel better, the early books had MUCH higher charge weights with Clays than the more recent books.

[Mick]

I've been running 4.0 grains of Clays under the 230 grain Precision Bullet fo quite awhile.

The only 45 I still shoot is an old Gold Cup that has had everything changed except the barrel, frame, and slide (literally). That barrel has had over 24,000 rounds through it and wobbled in the lathe last time I cut it. It still gets 765 fps with that Clays load which is right at 176 PF!

The PB bullets are a little faster than others but I only need 718 fps with a 230 and Clays should easily make that with any 230. What's with that barrel....

Edited May 31, 2007 by Mick

[chunger]

I've been running 4.0 grains of Clays under the 230 grain Precision Bullet fo quite awhile.

The only 45 I still shoot is an old Gold Cup that has had everything changed except the barrel, frame, and slide (literally). That barrel has had over 24,000 rounds through it and wobbled in the lathe last time I cut it. It still gets 765 fps with that Clays load which is right at 176 PF!

The PB bullets are a little faster than others but I only need 718 fps with a 230 and Clays should easily make that with any 230. What's with that barrel....

I'm not experiencing difficulties with the black bullets in my gun. . .

Bear Creak 230 grain moly coated

4.0 grains clays

L 773.6

H 791.2

A 781.4

ES 17.55

SD 5.19

I don't like scrubbing the barrel though afterwards. The local rep gave me a test batch of 100, so I started testing.

[chunger]

Progress today. I decided to load the clays up to 4.3 grains and it did indeed hit a sweet spot at least where velocities are concerned. Standard deviations dropped to 8.42 and 9.94. Extreme spreads dropped to ~29 fps including the 1st cold shot. Velocity is now ~764 fps.

[bigsaxdog]

ya' gotta experiment.... i think alot of us uspsa'ers think we just reload to the "magic" power factor, and then the rainbow comes out!!!.....ugh, no....bullet construction, powder weight, case capacity, primer type, all has a bearing on the recipe. and one of the constants is that less powder will give less recoil, which is a good thing, but only if the load works. i did this for a long time, before i could shoot for accuracy. once i realized how to hit the spot, then i started to realize that the loads weren't very accurate, even though they were very soft. fast powders are alot more twitchy, and make it harder to find that "sweet spot", and the "sweet spot" changes w/ different bullet styles, and w/ clay's, we're talking about .1 of a grain, which is hard to throw in a dillon.......and all this ain't in the reloading manuals. case capacity has alot to do w/ it, and mixed cases don't help. the big problem is that .45's were designed to run a 230gr. bullet at @ 850fps, not low 700's, and there's really too much case capacity to make it work smoothly. this is one of the reasons, i think, that uspsa is dominated by the .40 S&W. it's just more effecient at the 165+ pf. i've gotten real good results w/ the zero 230 gr. lead round nose and clay's. zero's machine was busted for a while, don't know if you can even find them now. you gotta do the soft, swaged lead though, hard cast sux! and along with all the other opinions here, just my $.02, YMMV