New to handguns, but not to shooting sports

[Steve Moneypenny]

Actually it's one of the easiest to shoot!  Red Dot makes it easier to aim, 21 rounds = less reloading Minor power factor is less recoil.. ooh yeah, and it has the most competitors in it now! 

I'm not sure what the wave technique is... but using the pointed thumb as an index point is a very tried and true technique for ergonomic aiming with a handgun, much like pointing the finger with a shotgun or carbine. 

[CC3D]

9 minutes ago, Bluehorn said:

Is that one of the hardest divisions?

I would argue that "hardest division" isn't really a thing and is very subjective. If you're referring to "most competitive", carry optics is very popular right now and a lot of people shoot in it, making it a division with a larger pool of high level shooters. 

 

Hardest division is arguably revolver.. maybe production and single stack as well. You simply cant go as fast in those divisions due to mag capacity and they require more stage planning/ reloads. This makes them more technically difficult to achieve higher scores in but again its all relative, you compete against the people in your division not revolvers vs. race guns. 

 

I would say DONT worry about the perceived "difficulty" of a division. Each division has its own challenges to overcome. Start in the division that you already have a gun for while you learn the sport, then venture out into other divisions if you desire. Carry optics is where you stand right now with the gun you described. Shoot a match in CO, learn the game, and don't worry about how you perform until you can safely finish a match and understand how the game works. That is not meant to be harsh by any means!

[Johnny_Chimpo]

7 hours ago, Bluehorn said:

Is that one of the hardest divisions?

 

I see you've had some replies to this question, so I'll say is this: I don't consider the "ease" or "difficulty" of each division in my decision of which to shoot.

 

I started in production and switched to carry optics for three reasons, in order of importance:

1. Reflex sights are for me superior to iron sights
2. I didn't need to buy a ridiculously impractical and expensive pistol to compete with optics
3. Competition was heading away from production and towards carry optics

 

Don't stray too far into the weeds this early.  As others advised, start shooting matches and see what you need to see.

Edited February 25, 2022 by Johnny_Chimpo

[Bluehorn]

23 hours ago, Steve Moneypenny said:

Actually it's one of the easiest to shoot!  Red Dot makes it easier to aim, 21 rounds = less reloading Minor power factor is less recoil.. ooh yeah, and it has the most competitors in it now! 

I'm not sure what the wave technique is... but using the pointed thumb as an index point is a very tried and true technique for ergonomic aiming with a handgun, much like pointing the finger with a shotgun or carbine. 

I was more referencing the difficulty of the competition.  Thanks for the confirmation re: indexing.  It’s nice to know that I am on the right track

[CC3D]

43 minutes ago, Bluehorn said:

I was more referencing the difficulty of the competition.  Thanks for the confirmation re: indexing.  It’s nice to know that I am on the right track

So as others have mentioned, you don't really need to worry about the difficulty of the competition field yet. That said, I think there is an interesting comment to make here. Yes, CO is very popular right now and a very competitive division because of it's popularity. But it's also a very popular division with ALL skill levels. What that means is, you're likely to have many shooters at your local club shooting CO that are much closer in skill to you. That is a good thing because it gives you individual people you can compete against in your division. So yes, the top guys shooting CO at your club are going to be beasts. But there will be a BUNCH of D/C/B class shooters shooting CO at your club to measure yourself against. 

 

Hope that makes sense.

[Johnny_Chimpo]

48 minutes ago, Bluehorn said:

I was more referencing the difficulty of the competition. 

 

I'm still not sure what do you mean by that?

 

Are you asking about how the choice of division (ie firearm) affects the technical difficulty of a stage?  Or are you asking which divisions are you most likely to find some serious heat in?

 

At the end of the day you can't control who shows up to shoot against you or how well they do, so my advice is to put that all out of your mind.

Edited February 26, 2022 by Johnny_Chimpo

[Bluehorn]

1 hour ago, Johnny_Chimpo said:

 

I'm still not sure what do you mean by that?

 

Are you asking about how the choice of division (ie firearm) affects the technical difficulty of a stage?  Or are you asking which divisions are you most likely to find some serious heat in?

 

At the end of the day you can't control who shows up to shoot against you or how well they do, so my advice is to put that all out of your mind.

I was just talking about the level of competition being the highest.  Do they have novice divisions?

 

I was also thinking about GSSF and Steel Challenge.  IDPA and USPSA seem really complicated from a rules standpoint.  Although, I am sure that a after a few competitions the complication factor wouldn’t be an issue.

 

More than anything I just want to meet other shooters and have some fun.  I am a ton of fun shooting and I am improving far faster than I would have ever expected.  I am a little curious to see how I would do.

 

I don’t have a shot timer, but was at a range that allows you to program a target to turn from side ways to facing front.  I was giving myself one second to go from low ready to acquiring the target and making 6 shots in the A zone at 7 yards.  I started out with 2 seconds, and was really surprised at how much time I had left so I worked my way down to 1 second and that was much more difficult.  Obviously, I need to invest in a shot timer since the programmable target could be off and staying front facing longer than expected.  I am sure it had to be more than a second, but it really got my juices flowing to see how well I could progress.  I don’t know what it is, but I love the challenge of shooting a handgun as opposed to a rifle or shotgun.

[CC3D]

We do not have "novice divisions" inn USPSA, but some divisions are easier to enter gear wise compared to others so that's where new shooters generally begin. These would be traditionally limited/ production, but now tons more people have dots on their pistols so CO is popular too in that regard. 

 

We do however have a classification system (D,C,B,A, master, grandmaster) that is a determination of your "rank" in the sport, I usually explain it as being similar to that of belt levels in martial arts. You're still competing against everyone in your division, but you're also competing against the people specific to your classification. 

 

Steel challenge is a great place to start if USPSA is intimidating rules wise. I would definitely still check out USPSA though. GSSF is not my cup of tea but very new competitor friendly. 

[Johnny_Chimpo]

1 hour ago, Bluehorn said:

I was just talking about the level of competition being the highest.  Do they have novice divisions?

 

 IDPA and USPSA seem really complicated from a rules standpoint.

 

I see now.  @CC3D already answered your first question.

 

When it comes to complexity you're looking at this the wrong way IMO.  IDPA and USPSA are not more complicated, rules wise, than GSSF and steel challenge.  They are just different.

 

There is a significant portion of the USPSA rulebook that you do not need to concern yourself with when you start.  All you really need to understand about USPSA rules to get started is contained in sections 8.1 - 8.5 and 10.1 - 10.5

 

I'll show my bias....

1. GSSF and Steel Challenge are non-starters for me.  I need movement and they don't have any.
2. IDPA has too many restrictions on how you approach a stage.  I want freestyle.
3. USPSA lets you solve the problem however you think is best without telling you (with some very specific exceptions) what to do from where.  The only restrictions placed on you while you solve the problem are those designed to keep everyone safe.
4. USPSA scoring is going to seem more complicated at first, but as you develop you will come to appreciate its advantages.

You're going to come in at the bottom half of the field when you start, no matter which sport you choose.  We all did, that's just the way it is.

 

Pick one with long term enjoyment as the primary consideration, not which one is "easiest" or more "novice friendly" when you start.

Edited February 26, 2022 by Johnny_Chimpo

[Bluehorn]

6 hours ago, Johnny_Chimpo said:

 

I see now.  @CC3D already answered your first question.

 

When it comes to complexity you're looking at this the wrong way IMO.  IDPA and USPSA are not more complicated, rules wise, than GSSF and steel challenge.  They are just different.

 

There is a significant portion of the USPSA rulebook that you do not need to concern yourself with when you start.  All you really need to understand about USPSA rules to get started is contained in sections 8.1 - 8.5 and 10.1 - 10.5

 

I'll show my bias....

1. GSSF and Steel Challenge are non-starters for me.  I need movement and they don't have any.
2. IDPA has too many restrictions on how you approach a stage.  I want freestyle.
3. USPSA lets you solve the problem however you think is best without telling you (with some very specific exceptions) what to do from where.  The only restrictions placed on you while you solve the problem are those designed to keep everyone safe.
4. USPSA scoring is going to seem more complicated at first, but as you develop you will come to appreciate its advantages.

You're going to come in at the bottom half of the field when you start, no matter which sport you choose.  We all did, that's just the way it is.

 

Pick one with long term enjoyment as the primary consideration, not which one is "easiest" or more "novice friendly" when you start.

I like the USPSA format from the videos I have seen, I just don’t know if a place to go where I can practice movement like that before I try a competition.  That is what has me a little shy about doing USPSA.  
 

The Steel Challenge actually looks really fun to me.  And I have a place the I could practice that.

[Johnny_Chimpo]

42 minutes ago, Bluehorn said:

I like the USPSA format from the videos I have seen, I just don’t know if a place to go where I can practice movement like that before I try a competition.

 

Do you have a basement?  A large living room?

 

80%+ of my practice is done with an empty gun in my basement.  That includes movement.

 

Get creative.

[CC3D]

Not to be snarky but if you are capable of safely handling a firearm and are conscious enough to keep it pointed down rage while you move around, you are competent enough to shoot a USPSA match. You can walk all of your stages for your first match. Let them know its your first time and they will put you on a squad that can help you. They will likely give you a new shooter briefing and hammer home the important rules. Don't stress too much about practicing for your first match beyond being familiar with safe pistol handling. That's reholstering a loaded gun, drawing from a holster, reloading, moving with a gun in your hand. Practice the safety stuff. The rest will come. 

[Bluehorn]

11 hours ago, CC3D said:

Not to be snarky but if you are capable of safely handling a firearm and are conscious enough to keep it pointed down rage while you move around, you are competent enough to shoot a USPSA match. You can walk all of your stages for your first match. Let them know its your first time and they will put you on a squad that can help you. They will likely give you a new shooter briefing and hammer home the important rules. Don't stress too much about practicing for your first match beyond being familiar with safe pistol handling. That's reholstering a loaded gun, drawing from a holster, reloading, moving with a gun in your hand. Practice the safety stuff. The rest will come. 

That wasn’t snarky at all.  Thanks for the info.

[Bluehorn]

13 hours ago, Johnny_Chimpo said:

 

Do you have a basement?  A large living room?

 

80%+ of my practice is done with an empty gun in my basement.  That includes movement.

 

Get creative.

That is good to know.  The Humble Marksman has some good videos with drills similar to what you are describing

[CC3D]

David (humble marksman) has some of the best video content regarding starting out in USPSA. I highly recommend a binge of his "building a better shooter" video series and podcast. He also gets into some very nerdy USPSA stuff on his Patreon which is 1 dollar a month, if you end up getting hooked on the sport and want more commentary. 

[Johnny_Chimpo]

2 hours ago, Bluehorn said:

That is good to know.  The Humble Marksman has some good videos with drills similar to what you are describing

 

You need to buy the Ben Stoeger dry fire book.  As I mentioned before, I came from the same shooting background you did (sporting clays) so I know that you likely haven't grasped the magnitude of the importance and usefulness of dry fire for practical pistol shooting yet.  I know that because there is little you can do in dry fire with a shotgun beyond mounting drills.

 

Disciplined, systematic dry fire followed with focused live fire sessions to test and validate what you're doing dry is one of the two key components to a training program that will maximize your performance.

 

The other component is training from a high caliber shooter who can teach.  My match performance took a significant step up in 2021 after attending training for the first time (been self-taught up that point).

 

To give you another place to look on youtube, Casey Reed has a channel (Casey Reed Shooting) with great videos highlighting many of the key techniques of the sport, with slow motion repeats and explanations. 

 

 

Edited February 27, 2022 by Johnny_Chimpo

[OpenshooterMclass4lyfe]

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