What's the logic behind 10.2.4?

[Graham Smith]

10.2.2 A competitor who fails to comply with a procedure specified in the written stage briefing will incur one procedural penalty for each occurrence. However, if a competitor has gained a significant advantage during non-compliance, the competitor may be assessed one procedural penalty for each shot fired, instead of a single penalty (e.g. firing multiple shots contrary to the required position or stance).

10.2.4 A competitor who fails to comply with a mandatory reload will incur one procedural penalty for each shot fired after the point where the reload was required until a reload is performed.

I got caught making an error regarding 10.2.4 last Saturday. I remembered a lengthy discussion in a CRO class we hosted regarding penalties and the point that was made that one penalty is assessed for each shot if the shooter has gained an advantage in those shots - like in standing outside the shooting area. So when the question of shots fired after failing to make a mandatory reload came up on a classifier, I said one penalty. I was wrong as can be seen from 10.2.4

Now the question in my mind is why was I wrong. A shooter may gain an advantage for that first shot after failing to do the reload, but they certainly don't gain an advantage for every shot. I simply don't get the reasoning behind 10.2.4.

Can anyone explain it as anything other than, "That's the way it's always been done?"

Edited September 23, 2014 by Graham Smith

[Nik Habicht]

Graham,

the rule has existed since my entry in the sport, but here's my speculation. I watched a lot of videotape of the Nationals from the early 90s, and a lot of the stages were short and quick, and contained a mandatory reload.

I'm speculating the penalty was made this harsh, so that people wouldn't decide to trade the reload for a single procedural.....

If the stage is quick enough, and if the standard for a quick reload back then was a couple of seconds at the top of the game......

[Parallax3D]

In both cases, you are doing something contrary to the general rules or WSB, that IS giving you an advantage,
Works the same for freestyle/strong hand/weak hand stuff as well. Until you bring yourself back into compliance, you get one procedural per shot.
I suspect that Nik is coerrect that the penalty was made that harsh to dissuade someone from trading a single penalty for the advantage gained.

A reload might seem insignificant, but unless you're someone like Travis Tomaste, etc., it's going to add a not insignificant ammount to your time. When you have 1st and 2nd place sometimes separated by hundreths of a second, that makes a big difference.

[EkuJustice]

because it is to prevent people from taking the procedural and burning it down with no reload. if your trigger speed is faster than your reload speed on a HHF stage you could just skip the reload and come out ahead if it was one total

For the one shop per for a significant advantage its kind of on a case by case basis. Shooter has a foot on the fault line and touches the outside with the foot rolling over or is just outside on a shot thats not a big lean shot or something then one total. If he goes outside to take a shot that is not visible from within and say eliminates a shooting position or 2 as a result then something like that would be a significant advantage

[Graham Smith]

Works the same for freestyle/strong hand/weak hand stuff as well.

Weak/Stong is different. Each shot taken with both hands rather that one handed is a distinct advantage.

The time gained by not doing a reload may, as Nik says, have a bigger advantage depending on the stage. And it just occurred to me that one thing that was distorting my view on advantage is that this stage had a reload when changing sides of a barricade. That's a good deal less advantage than on something like El Presidente where there is no barricade and no position change.

It's all relative. But it's a mistake I won't make again.

[Parallax3D]

Works the same for freestyle/strong hand/weak hand stuff as well.

Weak/Stong is different. Each shot taken with both hands rather that one handed is a distinct advantage.

The time gained by not doing a reload may, as Nik says, have a bigger advantage depending on the stage. And it just occurred to me that one thing that was distorting my view on advantage is that this stage had a reload when changing sides of a barricade. That's a good deal less advantage than on something like El Presidente where there is no barricade and no position change.

It's all relative. But it's a mistake I won't make again.

I guarantee you, doing a reload or not while changing sides of a barricade is still going to affect your overall time. It will have a larger effect on fast stages like El Prez or Can You Count, but it still has an effect on the time.

Also, I think stages like that, where you have to do a reload every time you change sides or target arrays, are set up that way to discourage "hosing", because if you miss a target and have to go back, you have to reload again. It's really forcing you to make sure that you get all of your hits the first time, or suffer a time penalty, (the time to reload.)