Michigan PCC Match

[Barrettone]

The Michigan PCC (Pistol Caliber Carbine) Championship has been granted "Recognized" status by the president of USPSA!!! PCC will also be run the fourth Sunday every month (on Handgun day) until further notice. This is to answer the large interest and influx of shooters that we have had for this type of event. It is now completely legal, and this will be a test case for PCC to see if will fit in the USPSA landscape. These guns are extremely fun to shoot, and can be shot on most any handgun stage. Read the details below to see how the matches are to be run.

Thanks,

Jeff

----- Original Message -----

From: Jeff LaFave

To: President@uspsa.org

Sent: Monday, April 05, 2004 11:53 PM

Subject: Re: PCC

Mr. Voight,

We will run this match under Standard rifle rules with a "pistol caliber only" restriction (9mm,40 S&W, 38 super and 45 ACP). We will have an open and standard class, as well as a limited 10 to accomodate people with guns that have a maximum capacity of 10 rounds due to magazine availabilty (mec techs, hi-points, etc...). I will gladly file a report at the end of the year outlining these matches success rates. I will also give a recommendation as to whether or not it should be considered as an official division in USPSA. I will also comment on the applicable rifle rules. Mission count will be paid to USPSA for all these events, and the rifle rules will be precisely followed with the exceptions listed above. Thank you very much for granting our request, and I look forward to commenting on this recognized matches success.

Jeff LaFave

Vice President

Livingston Gun Club / SEMPS

TY47019

----- Original Message -----

From: President

To: 'Jeff LaFave'

Cc: Dave Thomas ; John Amidon

Sent: Monday, April 05, 2004 10:49 PM

Subject: RE: PCC

Hi Jeff,

I will approve this as a recognized match that you can run as often as you wish, with two conditions.

You let me know what criteria you are running these matches under. (Standard rifle rules with caliber restriction or ???) and update me towards the end of the year with a short report on your experience as to:

Should PCC be a USPSA division (why?)

Should the rules differ from current rifle rules (how?)

Good luck and have fun!

Michael Voigt

President USPSA

909 548-3355

909 266-8005 FAX

-----Original Message-----

From: Jeff LaFave [mailto:jlafave@mich.com]

Sent: Sunday, April 04, 2004 7:57 PM

To: President@uspsa.org

Subject: Fw: PCC

----- Original Message -----

From: VPUSPSA@aol.com

To: jlafave@mich.com

Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 2:28 PM

Subject: Re: PCC

In a message dated 3/8/2004 8:50:46 PM Eastern Standard Time, jlafave@mich.com writes:

So what we want to do is legitimize PCC (currently it is just a club side match). We want to have a sanctioned PCC Rifle match (pay mission count, section fees, etc...). Rifles would scored minor (they can make it in 9mm and .45). But the problem is, can we dictate that all rifles must be of pistol caliber? We don't want our steel getting abused because we HAVE TO let some guy with a .223 compete. We just want to be able to tell the whiners that it is legal, and our club has just decided to include a rifle match (in pistol caliber) on handgun days (they keep throwing the rulebook at us). We need a ruling on this if we are to proceed.

Hi Jeff,

If you call the match a USPSA rifle match, then the rules must be followed

and all rifles allowed.

However, there are two ways to do it other than that.

1.) Apply for a recognized match, allowing only the PCC weapons, if granted

it would be a legitimate USPSA match.

2.) Keep it as a side match allowing only the PCC's.

I would prefer choice 1, but it is up to you.

DVC,

John

[sahauptman]

THANKS JEFF

Now I have to get a new firearm(like I can afford it)

[Cameron]

I think Jeff just wants to sell or rent out the 6 he has!!! Regain some of that spent money!

Cameron

[Barrettone]

We will be convening a PCC rules committee to call out the divisions and address all the potential equipment variations out there. We want to have a level playing field in Limited 10, so that all can compete in a like class. This is a pilot program to guage involvement in PCC in our region and see if it has a place in the USPSA landscape. PCC is a hybrid that can shoot handgun-type stages yet the gun in and of itself is a long gun (with limited range). It will be interesting to see what comes of this in the next couple of years. After the PCC Championships in May(see: ), I am expecting a large influx of shooters for this type of match. I know that I think they are fun!!! Time will tell...Steve and Cam, as for you guys, all I can say is...dig deep and reserve early...Jeff's rentalis taking reservations, and the price will only go up!!!

Jeff

[Barrettone]

A special thanks also goes out to our Area Director, Gary Stevens, for spearheading the effort to get PCC recognized for us. Thanks Gary for all your continued support!!! Your work is truly appreciated!!!

Jeff

[Barrettone]

Alright Guys and Gals...Last call for the match. It is this weekend (Memorial Day weekend-Sunday). Get that Mech-Tech, Storm, AR, M-11, or whatever else you plan on runnin' ready!!! Go to Livingston Gun Club for further info. Hope to see you there!!!

Jeff

[Barrettone]

Well folks,

The first ever PCC only match is in the books, and despite the threatening weather, we still had over 30 shooters participate in the event. We recieved quite a few opinions from people on their response form, and I would like to share them with you, and ask for your input as well, as the people on this board are very knowledgable when it comes to rules and procedures. I need this input to forward to Michael Voight for future considerations.

First a little background. We recieved "approved" status to run this as a rifle match with a pistol caliber restriction of 9mm,38 super, 40 S&W, and 45 ACP. We also were granted a limited 10 division for those with the guns that could only accommodate 10 round mags (mech techs, hi-point, etc). We utilized the new rule with chamber flags to enable competitors to travel from range to range without bagging them. We scored all guns minor. We have permission for 2004 and 2005 to run these matches in our section.

Responses consisted of "this is a blast!!!", and people felt that it should continue. That was a hands-down consensus. I liken it to shotgun shooting. Anybody, on any given day, can be a superstar and win a stage without being a master class shooter, so it is very enticing to veterans and newbies alike. Hosing is fun too!!! A lot of people liked the cost-effectiveness of PCC from an ammo standpoint, and being able to affordably shoot a long gun on a handgun COF (9mm is cheap!!!). Steel could be shot with them (non rifle that is), and that was appealing as well. Lots of steel shootin' is usually a winner. Some people thought that power factor should be adjusted to accept major and minor (velocities are different in a long gun versus a pistol obviously). Also some people mentioned that a magazine capacity or length should be established. I contend that with limited 10 as an option, if you cannot get 40 rounders for your gun, and only 30's are available,,,dress down to L-10 and avoid the "arms race" if you feel that you can't compete with the 40 rounders, but opinions vary. Also, tactical needs to be addressed. We only ran open, standard, and L-10, but with the new rules, we need to discuss compensators, optics, etc.

Also, can you tell me if people in your neck of the woods like this style of shooting, or if you think it would be accepted there. We run it in conjunction with our monthly hand gun matches, and score it as a rifle side match. A lot of people in our area have 9mm uppers, MP-5's, Berretta Storms, High Points or Mech Tech conversions for their handguns...How about your area??? Please post your thoughts. The beauty of having it combined with your monthly handgun is that you don't have to have many shooters at first to get the ball rolling and support it. It really isn't any added work, just a few extra mouse clicks for the extra division. You simply have to squad accordingly. For example if a shooter wants to shoot his handgun and PCC, he takes two slots on the squad list, and pays a second gun entry. Please let me know your thoughts on whether or not this would work at your club. I appreciate the help.

Jeff

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Obi One Kenobi