Berdan surplus 308

[fastmtnbiker33w]

I have a load of berdan Radway Green 308 ammo that doesn't shoot too well in my LR308. In the past, I had an HK that totally destroyed brass due to the fluted chamber so I'd use the surplus in it. It shot very well so for hunting rounds I'd pull the bullets, drop the powder, recharge with a reduced amount of powder and pop in a spitzer hunting bullet.

Since I don't have a bunch of cash floating around I'm thinking about repeating this process for my LR308 and reloading the surplus stuff with 168 and/or 175 SMK's with reduced charges from the original surplus load. My plan is to pull 200 rounds, dump the powder into my powder dispenser, reduce the load by an appropriate percentage, and seat in the new bullet.

My question is this: Is surplus not so accurate because of inconsistent powder charges, differences in bullet masses, or primer consistency? ...or all three?

I don't have a chrono to test my new loads and I've never taken the time to mass the 147 gr. bullets I've pulled in the past. I did notice that the powder charges were within 1 grain but I only massed about 4 rounds.

I'm hoping to get a decent load that will allow me to learn how to shoot my new LR308 out to 600m or so while learning how to use my mildot range card/scope/etc. I figure that compared to a $13 20 rd box of decent 175 gr Serbian PPU ammo, I come out to about the same price after rounding up some discounted SMK's from an individual off the web. Compared to top match ammo I'm saving anywhere from 25 cents to $1.25 a round. To me the 147 gr surplus is almost worthless other than keeping on hand for the zombies. No way I'm buying Black Hills or LC 175 gr match ammo. The only benefit to buying the lower priced PPU ammo is that I get reusable brass out of the deal but I'm not sure it's that high quality.

[ShooterSteve]

A question I would have is, do you know what kind of powder your current rounds are loaded with, and do you know if it is specifically able to switch over to a 175gr bullet. I ask this without even looking at a 308 chart, but I would be leary of simply reducing a given charge of "I don't know what powder" and loading with a much heavier bullet.

[twodownzero]

I would bet money that any powder that can push a 147 grain bullet will push a 168 or 175 grain without a problem.

I don't think your project would be worth it, though. 200 rounds is hardly enough to develop a good load.

Why not just load your own ammo from scratch with the SMKs? I think you'll find, as I did, that it's pretty easy to develop an accurate load with them. Brass and powder are cheap compared to the bullets. Just get yourself a few hundred pieces of brass to start--they'll go a long way.

[fastmtnbiker33w]

If you look at the load data in various books, most loads for 147/150 grain bullets have the same powders as the 168s and most cross into the 175 loads.

I think I'm going to go for the PPU match ammo as it's pretty cheap on a few websites. That way I won't have to load first time around. I've read some good reviews about it. It will be good enough for me to figure things out with then I can reload it adn play with the load a little after I get things dialed with my shooting.

[Erik S.]

*snip* 200 rounds is hardly enough to develop a good load.

Why not just load your own ammo from scratch with the SMKs? I think you'll find, as I did, that it's pretty easy to develop an accurate load with them. Brass and powder are cheap compared to the bullets. Just get yourself a few hundred pieces of brass to start--they'll go a long way.

Holy cow! I can develop a good load in under 50 rounds INCLUDING playing with seating depth. No reason to go out and shoot a bunch of 5 shot groups unless you know +- 1 grain of powder you'll be shooting. Find the node for your barrel first.

I do agree with the second statement, though. Not worth it to jack with the surplus stuff especially if you want to be accurate out to 600+. Buy a few hundred Lapua cases, or even Win cases if you can't afford the Lapua, 100 168gr SMK's, 100 175gr SMK's, and 1000 Federal GM210M primers. Winning combination in my opinion. After you do some load dev with both bullets, pick which one shoots best and buy more. The primers will go a long way, so will the brass.

In my .308, I found that the 175's shot best but there are plenty of folks who love the 168's. Heavier bullets inherently do better at longer distances and buck the wind better.

Let me know if you need any help since I come from a LR rifle background almost exclusively .308.

[fastmtnbiker33w]

*snip* 200 rounds is hardly enough to develop a good load.

Holy cow! I can develop a good load in under 50 rounds INCLUDING playing with seating depth.

That's what I was thinking. My old man shoots long range stuff and can develop a load in less than 20. He's won trophies at Camp Perry.

[Erik S.]

Yeah, this is the WRONG way:

-Load 3-5 shot groups for each powder charge in .1gr increments

-Find what shoots best and load up 3-5 shot groups for different seating depths

-Later you find out your .3" group load at 100 yds shoots like poop at 700 yds

Correct way (assuming you know how to pull the trigger right):

-Load up 1 round for each .2 gr increment from book min to book max powder charges with bullet jammed into the lands (say .005" to .010")...will probably end up with about 15 rounds

-At minimum 300yds (preferably 600+) shoot each round using the SAME POA and record the powder charge on the target! Yes, that means you have to drive/walk downrange each time to mark the holes...you'll be glad you did it this way instead of using your spotter....don't worry about wind, you're only interested in the "up and down" spread.

-Your bullets will "climb" up as your powder charge increases and you'll get a few holes grouped together despite them being different powder charges. You'll probably get a group at the top of the spread and one at the bottom. These are the nodes of your barrel flapping up and down during recoil.

-Choose the powder charges at the top node for free elevation and load up another test with say 5 rounds in smaller increments around the group that performed well. You'll get another spread but MUCH smaller and you'll have 1 or 2 that are REALLY close to each other.

-Load up three 4 shot groups of + and - .1gr of the load that worked well INCLUDING that load and pick the best group.

-----There's your load and you know it shoots inherantly well since it's at the node (total round count = 32)

Now if you want to get even BETTER, shoot 4 shot groups with different seating depths....typically a difference of .005" in depth is enough. If you try 5 different seating depths, your round count is only 52. I have not needed to try that many depths to find one that suits me well.