GeneBray
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Posts posted by GeneBray
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Haven’t followed this thread for a while since an earlier post. So may repeat some other so hopefully not repeating others. The pistol doesn't make the GM, the person’s work ethic, and practice makes the GM. Son-in-law works in a job that requires firearms. He gets lots of training and practice. One training sessions as a fun exercise. They began shoring at a target. And backed up a fix distance after every string. A miss and you were out. When someone missed, the instructor used then used the students pistol and shot the target and hit ever time - just showing it was not the pistol. The instructor won and distance was well over 100+ yards. My understanding is Rob Leatham won SS national several years ago shooting factory 230 gr ammo. That would place his PF typically in the 190 or better range. That would be a large handicap to over come and he still won. The biggest requirements for a competition firearm IMO are is: Is it reliable, and is it accurate enough for the type of competition in which it is being used? If so, it is good enough to win and move up to your best skill level. I’m not saying equipment doesn’t matter since it does but people seems to want the latest most “best firearm de jour.” It is practice and hard work that makes you good/great not what you use.
Re 550 versus other Dillon presses. I started reloading for USPSA on a single stage press. The time spent as i shot more competition and began practicing regularly was killing me. Moved to a Dillon 550 after ruling out 1050 for cost and debating with myself for a long time over 650. At the time there was no case feeder for 550. Huge time saver making the move. It didn't take long to realize a 650 was the better choice. If you are serious about USPSA/competitive shooting, get at least a 650. I lucked into a phenomenal buy of a 1050 a year or so after getting a 550. I now use both presses regularly. I shoot more 9 and 40, which are loaded on the 1050, lower volume ammo like 45 I use the 550. Had I purchased a 650 first would most likely never bought a 1050 A bullet feeder does significantly improve the reloading tine.
P. S. Not looking to start debate(s) just sharing my experiences and insights. YMMV
P. P. S. It isn’t the equipment that makes a great shooter, it is a ton of hard work at dry, live fire practice, competition shooting and coaching from people who know have learned what does and doesn’t work that does. Learn to master all the skills and you will be successful and reach your goals.
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I’ve put ~70k rnds thru SP01 production gun. Great trigger that got better with Cajun GWs short reset and reach reduction kits. DA ~4 1/4 lb and SA ~2 1/4. Dry fired an IPSC SP01 legal production gun several years ago with ~5 lb DA/1 lb SA - a great
trigger! I believe little difference in OR and SP01 triggers with competent gun smithing. There are grip differences. I believe minor but certain others would say significant. My CO gun is an SP01 set up as close as I can to my Production. My 2 cents is get the SP01 and spend the difference in price on training, and/or ammo/reloading components if you can find them. If you are a legit GM/M then maybe the OR would help you compete against the best. The gun helps but IMO it is the person who makes the most difference in USPSA/IPSC. The shooters in our sport can and do win with a lot of different pistols.
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All the major btands are reliable. Stock base pads too. Henning are very good. So are all the other brands you mentioned. Only comment is several brands you listed don't work with stock CZ mags. Mec-Gar only. I've used stock CZ mags for nearly a decade and 70k+ rnds. and they just work.
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Make that Tula/Wolf SP not small AR in my SP01. And, comment on using those brand primers in ARs were SR not SP.
Sorry in my cell and couldn’t find the “edit post.”
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3 hours ago, rowdyb said:
You're likely not seating the small rifle primers deep enough. People run extended firing pins because they run light main springs. In their search for low DA numbers the suffer ignition problems and running an extended firing pin is part of dealing with these issues.
Previous set up in my Shadow 2 Orange: stock firing pin, stock fp spring, 10lb CZC main spring. If my CCI small rifle primers were even flush this would only set them off 75% of the time.
Current set up in same gun: CZC extended firing pin, 2075 firing pin spring, 12lb CZC main spring. Lights off 100% of my different small rifle primers, even if flush.
If you have a 16lb main spring and an extended firing pin and you're not lighting them off 100% it isn't the gun that is the issue, it is the ammo.
7 hours ago, jejb said:I have been using SRP's in 9mm for a few months. All Federals, normal ones and gold medal. Work fine with my S2 Orange. Stock firing pin, 10lb CGW recoil spring and the strongest of the 3 hammer springs that it came with (16lb, I believe). Totally reliable. So I found some more SRP's the other day at Bass Pro, Win SMRLP, and bought 2000 of them. They say on the box specifically for 5.56 so I did some research on them before buying and read a review from a person that said they worked great in his 9mm handgun. Well, they didn't work in my S2 or P229. Some would go bang, some only after repeated hammer strikes, some not at all.
Figured it was time for the CGW extended firing pin. They advertise that if you use it with the blue 13# hammer spring, it'll ignite "even the hardest primers". Got that in today, installed it, and no change in performance. That was disappointing. Called CGW and talked to one of the smiths to confirm I had the correct setup for the hardest hit. He'd never heard of this issue before, but I think these are not common primers.
I'm pretty sure I can get rid of them at my local range, but wondering if I should send the extended firing pin back or keep it. So my question is, why do people use it? My S2 lights SR primers with the stock spring very reliably, so having trouble understanding their value.
My understanding is AR style SR primers are they either very hard, thicker cup material, or both. Since ARs don’t have a firing pin spring, softer primers were subject to slam fires — firing pin slams forward as the bolt hits forward travel and begins to rotate to lock up. Result is firing pin moving forward and striking primer hard enough to detonate primer. ANd, you get a slam fire. The firing pin may have been modified to make it heavier so it has more inertia to over come when bolt stops. The other change were primers that are harder to set off than normal primers. That is the reason the box says for 5.56 which is considered a military round intended for use in AR/M-16 rifles. If the more difficult primer to set off was part of the fox, I think you will find it difficult to find a set up for those primers to work reliably and a trigger pull you want for your pistol. I would swap or use in your AR/buy an AR and use them.
I have used SR in my SP01 reliably. But not 5.56. Believe with 11/12 lb. main spring. Maybe 13. Tula/Wolf SR were a nightmare in the pistol and never did find suitable fix. People told me those primers are hard and they never haven’t issues with them in ARs.
I never tracked down the history of
slam fires in AR style rifles so don’t really know if true. If it is true, shouldn’t be too hard to find on internet.
Hope this is helpful.
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After 70k rnds in my SP01, lost track of how many I've broken and to lazy at the moment to find records to see. Seems like 3 to 5 or in that range. Learned after the first one during a match to place left, first finger to press on the slide stop and keep shooting. After the stage, go to safety area and replace. Takes to minutes, and I ALWAYS have spare in the range bag, and always shoot major matches with a new slide stop. I do track rnd on my pistols and when parts break and/or replaced. The slide stops are all over the chart in terms of round counts. One less than 10K and others 25+k. No rhyme or reason as to when. I will say new slide stops have last longer than ones years ago.
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43 minutes ago, Foxj66 said:
This line on the list should cover the OR
"Orange", "Black" and other variants of the CZ 75, Shadow, Shadow 2, and SP-01 are approved, provided they meet other Production criteria for action type.
Found the text in the "fine" print at the top of the CZ - CESKA ZBROJOVKA Production list on USPSA site. Cannot believe the S2 OR is not a variant of the S2. Certain the pistol didn't gain 12 oz. in weight for the optics ready changes. So, why did Troy say not legal? May he should be asked again by the originator of the thread.
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@ broadside72. Thank you for the clarification. My mistake. Hope my memory is good enough to remember that "OR" is optics ready and "Orange"
@ shred. An article in Front Sight carries no weight regarding rules for USPSA. Even the NROI column does not carry the weight of a rule or ruling unless it specifically states that is the publication of an NROI ruling or rules approved by the board. And then, the the officially published rule change or ruling counts if there are wording issues between the two copies.
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Not certain I understand Troy's comment about not legal. I am assuming, maybe incorrectly, the S2 Orange is a Shadow 2 Orange. If that is not correct then I'm wrong. Also, just looked at CZs site, they only list the Shadow 2 Orange. Attached is a screen capture from the USPSA website, Production Gun list, and it shows the Shadow 2 Orange as production legal.
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RE reply to SGT_Schultz. If you want cool, cool. Not using what everone else is using is cool in and of itself. There are only two things normally to prevent CZ mags not dropping like a brick regardless of the base pad -- magazine break not install correctly or bent so that it binds on the back of the mag. The other is the failure to fully depress the mag catch, or punch the catch too quickly, and the mag doesn't have the fraction of second to drop clear of the mag release. I have smaller hands, so I have to pay special attention to getting my thumb (since I moved it to the right side my index finger more on that later) squarely on the mag release. The tension applied to the bottom of the slide by the follower on an empty magazine, or the top round in the magazine if not empty effectively "shoots" the magazine out the grip -- assuming the mag release is fully depressed.
Like ihocky2, I've used stock SP01 mags for years with no regrets. I am still using the first ones I purchased - 70k+ live fire and who knows how much dry fire. Have new spares I've tested and know work without a hitch when/if I need them. I did remove the mag catch and spring and bent the mag catch spring to reduce tension and moved it to right slide. The right side is my preference since smaller hands and right side release mean less movement of pistol to reach the mag catch. Highly recommend reducing the mag catch spring tension. It help a ton and hasn't caused a sign problem re function.
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Own and SP01 and have used stock CZ mags and base pads for nearly a decade. They still work, haven't worn out, and the pistol has ~70k rnds of live fire. Don't know how many hours of dry fire. Nothing wrong with Mea-Gar. I just know really see the need. Base pads for stock SP01 and Mac-Gar mags are different. So you have to match mag and base pad for proper fit. Look at https://www.henningshop.com. Has great products for both Men-Gar, and stock mags as I recall.
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The 2 Orange is USPSA Production legal and it is on the Production gun list
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GREAT find!!!
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The previous responders covered my 2¢ worth of advice.
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On 1/22/2021 at 9:16 PM, mveto said:
Yeah the chamber was very short, I was loading for my SP01 at 1.135 with the 135tc’s, in order to get the rounds to plunk in the Bull Shadow I would have had to load them at 1.10, that was in 2 different Bull Shadows.
U.S. isn't a signatory to C.I.P. Think SAAMI is voluntary since a lot of cartridges don't have SAAMI standards. If I am reading the SAAMI spec correctly for 9mm Luger the head space length min. is 0.754" and max of 0.776" from breachface. That is .022" length variation. And, the throat should begin .0353" from where the case mouth stops moving forward in chamber. That dimension can vary from 0 to +0.004. Total chamber length must be within 0.012" of spec. However, I don't find a definition of what is the chamber length, and their drawing don't specify. My opinion the spec is written horribly.
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2 hours ago, mveto said:
I had my Bull Shadow barrel reamed so I could use the same round as my SP01, which is a BB 135tc at 1.135.
If the bullets didn't pass plunk test in Bull Shadow, reaming is the fix. Otherwise it is ramp and mag geometry, and possibly top of the chamber where the bullet hits during feeding. From your post, I am assuming they didn't pass which is the reason for the reaming. Wondering if anyone has plugged the barrel and made a mold of the chamber to compare measurements with SAAMI and C.I.P. standards on "short" CZ barrels. The chambers should meet one of those two specs. If my recollection is correct, the SAAMI and C.I.P. 9mm Lugger specs are slightly different but not substantially so. Guess my curiousity will force me to look when I find time. Maybe today....will post if I do
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7 hours ago, Racinready300ex said:
I'm pretty sure you can now swap slides in production and CO. I'd have to look.
If you can't, how many 320's do you think are running slides from different models on there gun?
I believe the following are the applicable rules for Production:
21 Authorized modifications (strictly limited to these items and their stated guidelines)
Please note that, during a match, a competitor may be required to demonstrate that their gun complies with Division rules by identifying a specific rules clause or published interpretation authorizing any disputed modification. If the competitor cannot identify an authorizing rules clause or published interpretation, the Range Master shall rule that the modification is PROHIBITED for Production division use and shall move the competitor to Open Division.
21.3 Aftermarket slides and barrels.
SLIDES: You may replace the slide with an OFM or aftermarket slide.
BARRELS: You may replace the barrel with an OFM or aftermarket barrel.
Carry optics has the same wording for 21.3, and replaces "Production" with "Carry Optics" in rule 21.
OFM is defined in Appendix A3 as: Original Firearm Manufacturer
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The ones you mentioned are all good. Henning basepads are in the same league and just as good or better than the ones you mentioned. Assuming HD means home defense. Is that correct? Also, what model of CZ and stock or other magazines? If living in a mag capacity restricted state, stock is all you need. If elsewhere, stock is still fine. Unless you are looking to maximize capacity, you probably don't need to change the springs and followers. If you need to change them, CZ custom followers and springs are as good as any for most magazines and work great in my stock mags. Grams are as good too. In my SP01 using stock followers and springs, I typically get 19 rnds in an 18 rnd magazine that is reloadable with ease. Almost double what I can use in USPSA Production. For CO, is use CZ Custom springs and followers, with Springer basepads
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On 1/16/2021 at 12:24 PM, SJBriggs said:
I'm new to the world of CZs and just ordered up a Shadow 2 OR. Before I go through the whole load development process, I was wondering if the CZ pistols prefer a certain bullet profile -- specifically from Blue Bullets (they seem to run faster than any other coated bullets).
Thanks in advance!
My SP01 eats anything and everything I've ever put in it. Manufacturers - Blue, Hornady, Winchester White Box, Montana Gold, Zero, Precison Delta, Armscor, IMI, and many others I cannot recall right now. Weight 95, 115, 122, 124, 125, 130, 135, and 147 gr. Profiles RN, RNSP, JHP (both TC and rounded profile HP), TC.
The only issue is occassionally I have vary seating depth for reliable feeding and that is due to the bullet profile affection the geometry of the round hitting the feed ramp and top a chamber during feeding.
Remember all bullets of a given type almost certainly have some variation in their profile -- ogives are different on RN and rounded JHP, TC style some have a long taper to the FP and others are shorter and stubblier. If you have a RN that feed realiabily with a specific length, and you change manufacturers and purchase a RN bullet, it may not feed reliably with the COL you were using due to ogiver difference. And, even from the same manufacturer the ogive may change for the same bullet weight. Same differences in the profile can change feeding reliability significantly.
Finally, keep good records on reloading to include all details of the bullet and COL.
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21 hours ago, Racinready300ex said:
Should be legal in USPSA, shouldn't it?
Depends on division. Not certain about CO and Production. Would need to research. Limited/L10/O should be legal.
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On 1/5/2021 at 7:44 PM, tryingmediumhard said:
It varies from gun to gun too. The two S2s I actually run eat 1.120ish length 125gr blue bullets just fine. However, and Accu S2 I impulse bought a month back strait chokes on them. The leade (or whatever) on the rifling is visibly shorter on that one. I shortened to 1.08ish and it's fine now in all 3. I recall from a reddit comment that that may depend on how fresh the tooling is on the reamer they just happened to use, but who knows if that's actually true.
This is 100% the case for me. I can have some old ACME dummies that are much pointier that don'e have this issue in this gun. Blue bullets are much rounder so that's the case for me.
Back to the original point, this is true. The thread seems to have just went off in the short chamber direction without anything indicating that to be the actual case here. I used to get horrible fail to extracts on my 2 main S2s until I went to 13lb recoil springs from 11lb for example. I also need to clean the extractors every 3-4k or so. Those are only 2 additional possible causes though.
See if can find this article on the internet. If not reach out via forum and I’ll send the pdf.
Bullet Design And Feeding Reliability In Semi- Automatic Pistols
I think I may have posted a link for this somewhere on Enos before. You may find it here quicker.
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On 9/28/2020 at 9:24 AM, mcmmotorsports said:
It is not magazine related. Pretty sure we have isolated it to a bullet profile issue
The PMC and Black load fine. The Blue is giving me fits.
Profiles significant different for blue bullet than others. Many feeding and chambering issues are the bullet profile. Same type but difference manufacturer (JHP, RN, TCFP et al) have different profiles.
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Well, January '21 and still no fix that I can see. I get notifications from BE but cannot open threads. Can no longer find BE in the TT groups like most/all other in the thread.
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22 hours ago, Stafford said:
As I’ve mentioned in other threads this week, I just switched out my Shadow 2’s hammer spring for an 11.5lb from CGW along with the extended firing pin. I tried it out with different factory ammo earlier this week including 100 rounds of CCI Blazer Brass. All fired with no issues.
Today I shot a match and took 124gr Blazer to shoot. Twice I had “squib like” occurrences, both deep into stages. Both times, I pulled the trigger, heard the tell tale pssst sound, followed by the RO telling me to stop. Both times there were no rounds lodged in the chamber. The guys in my squad believed it to be a squib that exited the barrel in both instances. The consensus was that ammo companies are cranking out ammo so fast that quality control is down.
My concern was that it could have been a light strike that didn’t ignite the primer enough to fire the round completely. However, light primers usually go click. And squibs go click...pssst.
Based on this info, does it sound like a squib that exited?
Agree with other posts regarding not a light strike issue. Squib can exit barrel but that is rare. The sound difference is also a good indicator. Squids that stay in barrel sound the same as those that don’t. Had both. Squibs in my production pistol and didn’t leave barrel. One in SS .45 ACP using 200 gr SWC which did. And observed 2 as RO. — on a 40/.45 the other a 9.
Agree most likely ammo issue. My concern if ammo and light loads, is some powders, if not all, can detonate with light loads. The load just has to get light enough. That usually results in damaged pistol and possible shooter/by stand injuries. Just depends.
Don’t know what advice on remaining ammo. If you shoot it, your the one assuming the risk.
As a PS, how many hits in the target where the issues occurred. Right number of hits for the shots taken or short. Any sign of a bullet striking target but not passing through?
TSO 9 vs 40 Slide Differences/Slide Impacting Barrel?
in CZ
Posted
Agree with your assessment. You need to contact CZ Custom, Cajun Gun Works, or a gun smith familiar knowledgable about CZs. Unless, of course you are good to do the work yourself. Even if so, would discuss with the experts first. IMO and YMMV