SnowinOnRaton
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Posts posted by SnowinOnRaton
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Awesome. I’m just new to reloading so I wanted to make sure I was in the safe range mostly. I completely disassembled the powder measure to understand it better. I cleaned everything, reassembled, and set it up again and I seem to be getting a little better consistency now. I did the cross hatch scratches with 120 grit on the plunger head per their trouble shooting doc so maybe that helped. Either way I’m good to go for now and this press is just awesome. Very happy camper right now!
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Thanks for the reply’s guys. I had my info a little crossed but like you guys said I should be more than fine. I mixed up the Hornady Manual info with the Hodgdon site info when I typed my question. Below is the specific info from the book and the site. I loaded an RMR FMJ-RN with a target 5.5 gr and C.O.L. 1.125. This is just range ammo for my wife and I. We don’t shoot competitions so this is just practice ammo. We’re just trying to get a little more bang for our buck and loading our own saves about $40-$50 per 1000 rounds. Every little bit adds up as they say.
On another note, I saw on the High Road forum where a couple guys successfully added the Hornandy case activation linkage to the Redding 10x so I might go that route if the Mark7 fix takes too long.
Hornady 10th Edition
Hodgdon CFE-Pistol
115 gr FMJ-RN
C.O.L. 1.100
4.7 gr 1000 fps
4.9 gr 1050 fps
5.3 gr 1100 fps
5.5 gr 1150 fps
5.8 gr 1200 fps
Hodgdon website
CFE-Pistol
115 gr SPR GDHP
C.O.L. 1.125
Starting Load
5.3 gr 1059 fps
Maximum Load
5.9 gr 1185 fps
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I have a newbie question. The Hodgdon loading data says CFE-Pistol loads for 115gr FMJ-RN are 5.3-5.8 range. The Mark7 powder measure is consistent enough to stay in that range but let’s say for the sake of argument that it threw a 5.2 or 5.1 charge. Would that be light enough to cause a squib or is that not really something I should be concerned about with a couple tenths below the minimum recommended charge weight?
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9 hours ago, Tanfastic said:
Well the feedback from MK7 is that the inconsistency is from powder "splashing" back up into chamber during the dump because of the speed of rotation. They're working on a revised linkage that creates a J-shaped rotation with a slower rotation at the bottom, which should help with that. Because of the way the linkage works, you can't really do much as far as how fast or slow you pull the handle, other than making sure you give it a good dwell at the top and bottom to let the powder fully fill and empty, you can't really change the rotation speed of the drum based upon how you're pulling the handle. I've set a top and bottom dwell time of 2 on the auto drive to do this automatically, and it seems to be doing ok, I'm not seeing huge spreads but about 0.2 gr running at 1600rph. So bottom line, if you have a manual Evo don't beat yourself up about it being a problem of how consistently you're pulling the handle, it isn't. The advantage of the auto drive is you can get it to be more consistent by tuning for the amount of splash back you get at a given rph since the speed is exactly the same each time. Hopefully the new parts will eliminate most of the splash back, and then it won't really matter as much. I'd like to see 0.1 gr spread ideally, I'd never give it a 2nd thought at that level. I think most scales are no better than 0.1 gr anyway.
P.S. - This also means that testing the powder drop of the MK7 measure by manually actuating the drum rotation is completely useless, you have to test it at the speed that you're loading with a case in the station and shell plate moving at normal speed.
Thanks for this info. I can stop trying to trouble shoot this on my own for now. I’ll give them a call to see what they say about a time frame for a fix. Thanks!
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16 minutes ago, Smithcity said:
.... Over an hour loading session I find it hard to believe any human will maintain the same rate / force of pull. As a result, I don't know how you could do much better than a 0.4-0.5 spread....
Agreed. This seems to be what I’m experiencing and from what I’ve read it’s a common issue. I’m going to make sure I go through all of their trouble shooting tips in the PDF from the Mark 7 forum. At this point though I think the only one I haven’t tried is the cross hatching scratches on the face of the plunger (part number 201-1167 in the exploded parts doc) with sand paper. Also forgot to mention I’m using the Dramworx Glass hopper so I’m sure it’s not a static issue.
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On 1/12/2019 at 9:04 PM, Smithcity said:
Regarding the powder drop accuracy discussion and comments on powder variation vs speed. Went and ran some tests. In the data below:
"Manual" = machine isn't running, with the tool head in the up position, I placed a case under the powder funnel, pushed the powder funnel up until the powder funnel hits the top of the powder die, then I manually actuated the rotary arm with my other hand.
"1k RPH BD:2" = machine set to 1000 rph and bottom dwell setting of 2
"1.9k RPH BD:2" = machine set to 1900 rph and bottom dwell setting of 2
The shell plate was completely empty except for one case under the powder station. I used the same case for each measurement. I also visually watched the powder arm fully rotate each time.
I only have a dillon and hornady scale, neither are great. Dillon always measured a bit heavier than the hornady.
I'm running VVN340 powder in 9mm cases.
"MAX" numbers refer to the full data set for the particular speed from both scales.
Seems the drop is indeed speed dependent. I'm getting +- 0.1 to 0.15gr depending on speed, which scale you pick, and if you pick the compilation of both scales for a run (probably not fair). A 4.42% to 6.76% variation. I'd be happy with sub 5%. So for any given speed, the drop looks decent. The problem comes in for the "overall" analysis. Up to a 0.5gr spread or 11.39% variation.
Usually when I start the press up, I run at the lowest speeds single cycle while filling the shell plate, making sure every station is working correctly. Then I let it run automated at the lowest speed for ~20 rounds to watch the overall press. If everything looks fine I start speeding it up. Looks like a great way to have an inconsistent load.
Thanks for doing this. It was good to see what other folks are getting. I’m running the manual Evo and I’m having a little trouble getting consistent drops. I’m loading 9mm. I’m testing with Hodgsdon CFE-Pistol aiming for 5.5 gr. Using 20 drops I’m getting anywhere from 5.29 to 5.78 on the extreme ends. Typical charge spread seems to be 5.4 to 5.6. Is 2 tenths considered fine for range ammo? What kind of accuracy do you competition shooters find acceptable?
I’m being super consistent with my lever pulls. Made sure the powder arm is going through the full range of motion. I ran some tests with my Redding 10x and over 20 drops I’m getting 5.46 to 5.58 with 90% of those within .05 of my target 5.5. The Redding is a beast! Wish I could modify it to actuate and just use it. I will say once Mark 7 improves consistency on these powder measures they will really have something special. The build quality and smoothness of this powder drop is amazing. The press itself is simply stunning. I’ve got everything else running flawless. Once I get the powder measure consistency dialed in I’ll be over the moon. I’m gonna try some tests tomorrow with Alliant Power Pistol but seeing as it’s also a flake powder and looks pretty much identical to the CFE-Pistol I’m guessing the results won’t be any different. Also, I don’t have a great scale. I’m using the cheapo WAOAW digital scale but double checking every charge with my RCBS 10-10 beam scale.
Is anyone one here getting really accurate drops with this powder measure? If so, what powder and charge size are you using?
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I use the FA separator then I just dump the pins back the FA tumbler. I never have an issue dropping pins. When I want to remove my pins and dry them for whatever reason I find a “nut milk bag” works incredibly well. My wife had to get herself another one because hers kept ending up in my reloading room.
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On 12/9/2018 at 10:00 PM, Absocold said:
I'm in the market for another press and I'd be interested in a manual drive Evolution but they are not available - autodrive only. So I guess I'll be looking for a 1050.
Make sure you put yourself on their email waiting list. I was just talking to customer service last week and they are getting a much better handle on how many Evo Manual presses they can make available each month. I was told they will soon be offering “some” each month. How many, I don’t know.
That said, I had one on order that just arrived last week. I placed the order on Sep 18. I got one of those emails saying they were in stock and I immediately placed an order. Within hours I noticed the website was back to saying they were out of stock again. Apparently I had managed to get an order in due to a system glich. Rather than cancel my order they went ahead and put me in line.
I placed the order in kind of ‘the heat of the moment’ not really knowing how I was going to pay for it but I had PayPal Credit and 6 months interest free to figure it out so I made an impulse buy.
Well fast forward to December and I was rethinking my extravagant purchase due to some unexpected expenses. I called to cancel my order but the press had literally shipped earlier that day. I figured I would just return it unopened and eat the shipping once it arrived.
Long story long.... I stupidly opened the box and man let me tell you, it’s one thing to see it in pictures, but it’s another thing entirely to have it in front you. I live in Arizona and I’m about 20 minutes from the Dillon showroom. I’ve been there many times drooling over the 1050 but this is a whole other level of machine.
To the OP’s question, is it worth it? Yes, definitely. Would I be happy with a 1050, no doubt. It’s a great machine. No one can take that away from Dillon but I can tell you the hype over the quality and engineering of this press is not just talk. It’s just jaw dropping.
I had had every intention of returning it but now I’m looking at selling some other gear I own because I just really don’t want to let this go.
Also, I’m super happy that I didn’t cave and go with the Evo Pro. The Manual is all I need right now and I just couldn’t be happier with it.
Anyway... I’m a newbie loader who’s only loaded a few hundred rounds of 9mm on a single stage Forster Coax. Which I also love. What a great choice that was too. So take my 2 cents for what it’s worth. I’m a “buy once, cry once” kinda guy and I love quality tools and I can tell you this is one purchase I’ll not regret. Now if I can just figure out how to pay for it! ;o)
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12 hours ago, Tanfastic said:
ADMINS: Would it make sense to split out a separate "Mark 7 Evoluotion Troubleshooting" thread from this discussion, as it's already at 55 pages of mostly blather, and will be difficult for the technical content to provide value to new Evo press owners if these posts are left buried in the middle of all this? Just a suggestion.
I agree. My Evo (manual version) just arrived and I have already found myself searching through this thread more than a few times for posts I remember reading about.
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I decap before I tumble so no worries there. I’m doing everything on a single stage press at the moment. Can’t wait until my Evolution gets here!
I just wanted to make sure not drying in the oven or dehydrator wouldn’t cause clumping or some other issue.
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Newbie loader here so forgive my ignorance but how dry does the brass need to be? I ask because I’ve been cleaning brass in prep to load my first ever test loads for my first ever reloads. I have about 10k of 9mm brass I’ve saved this year from factory ammo purchases that my wife and I shot during the year. I’ve been wet tumbling with SS. After washing I dump each load (about 500 cases) on a towel and just pat dry. Then they sit in a clean 5 gallon bucket waiting to be resized. I’m planning on reloading in 1k batches after I de-prime, clean, and resize all 10k. So the previously washed and pat dried cases will have been further “air drying” another week or so. The first few thousand I’ve cleaned are all currently “dry to the touch” inside and out and have been sitting for a few days already. Is “dry to the touch” dry enough or is actually necessary to bake them in the oven or a food dehydrator? Is that step only needed when your loading them immediately after cleaning them?
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3 hours ago, zzt said:
... To save time and effort I buy fully processed once-fired in 6,000 case lots for 3.5 cents each. The cases are resized, deprimed, primer pocket swaged, push through resized, cleaned in SS media, dried and lightly waxed. I don't have to worry about Glock bulges or crimped primers. I just dump them in the case feeder and load.
At that price it might be worth it to me when I consider the time savings of cleaning and processing myself. May I ask where you buy yours from?
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A lot of info here so thanks for that everybody. It’s pretty much as I suspected. For my needs anyway, I can’t see where buying new brass would ever make sense. Being new to reloading I just wanted to make sure there wasn’t something I was misunderstanding or missing regarding the cost or benefits. It just seems to me with the average cost of new unfired 9mm brass being equal on average to a finished round (that includes reloadable case), there is just no reason to buy new brass. I currently have about 6k rounds on hand that I need to clean so I have plenty to get me started and keep me busy for now.
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Thx for the replies guys. Yeah I totally get I’m not going to “save money” so to speak. I’m trying to get more shooting in for the same out of pocket expense. Just trying to maximize our shooting to dollar ratio. I was just stunned to see the cost of new unfired brass is the same as some loaded factory ammo. Stunned!
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I’m just getting into reloading. My wife and I shoot mostly 9mm, and to a lesser degree some .223. We try to hit the range once a week and put about 250-300 rounds each down range. That’s been getting pretty expensive for our budget so we’ve decided to get into reloading to get more shooting in for our buck. We knew this was coming so we’ve been saving our brass for a while now and man am I glad we did! Out of curiosity I started looking at what new unfired brass costs and I cannot for the life of me, understand why anyone would purchase new brass. Seriously, why does it cost the same or more as factory loaded ammo?! A few online searches for unfired 9mm brass seems to average $.17-$.19 per 1000. I can buy white box Winchester, Magtech, Fiocchi, and Blazer 9mm for that price all day every day. It doesn’t make any sense to my newbie reloader brain so will someone please humor my stupid question and explain to me why the hell unfired brass is the same or more as factory ammo?
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Wow! Is it really $2495 for a collator?! Is that a typo? The site doesn’t list a price.
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Hi Norm, thx for that. That looks like the ticket for me.
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1 hour ago, JohnFRoss said:
Snow, I think that question's been answered. Go back through this thread. I've got to leave the computer now or I'd find it for you. Maybe tonight.
JR
Hi JR,
I read the entire thread so I must have missed it which is easy to do at 1:00am. ;o) I saw some questions on the possibility of adapting the Dillon alarm to work but didn’t see a final answer. I’m new to reloading and wasn’t aware of the RCBS solution that Norm mentions. That looks like it will fit my needs until I can eventually upgrade to the Evo Pro. Thx for the reply.
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To any folks with the manual version of the Evo what, if anything, are you using for a powder check?
Does anyone have any info of when/if Mark 7 plans to offer an audible powder check alarm for the manual press (like the Dillon)? I wonder if the sensor they currently offer can be wired to trigger an audible alarm. This guy here (YouTube link Low Powder Sensor ) has a very cool low powder sensor that he made and I wonder if something like this could be made for a powder check.
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@Norm37 ... I found the manual somewhere on this site yesterday. I can’t remeber which thread. I know it had a “google docs” link if that helps. Heck, just PM me your email and I’ll email it to you. I’m in the same boat as you in that I have placed an order but can’t get Mark7 forum access until I have my press. It says V1.0 on it so it’s most likely been updated since release but it’s a start at least.
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Hi Folks,
Just joined the forum because I kept ending up here when researching reloading equipment but also my wife and I are interested in dipping our toes in the sport shooting world so this looks like the place to be. Mostly shoot steel out in the desert but also spend some time at Ben Avery. Can’t stand indoor ranges. Anyone here shoot at Ben Avery in the competitions there? Also is there a “supporting members” kind of thing here at all or do you just donate when/if you feel like it? I like to support forums that I get useful information from and I can already see that this place is going to teach me a lot!
Thx,
Sam
I just wanted to make sure not drying in the oven or dehydrator wouldn’t cause clumping or some other issue.
Mark 7 Presses worth the money?
in non-Dillon Reloading Equipment
Posted
Well said. Im just happy I got one before the latest price increase.
With what they are going for now I probably would have just gone with a bare bones 1050 and added a bullet feeder down the line and even an ammobot or auto drive after a few more years.