broadside72
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Posts posted by broadside72
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16 hours ago, Schutzenmeister said:
This is why I honestly prefer IPSC Rules on this particular issue. Fault lines exist for a reason. You want to shoot outside them? Go ahead. Just apply the appropriate penalties for your actions.
It always amazes me that we here in the US have to be TOLD to shoot from within the shooting area!
Yeah, it's called a "shooting area" for a reason. I am not sure I like the IPSC no leaving the area part of their rules, but it should be automatic that you shoot from the shooting area. But until that is the rule, I will game it when beneficial.
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3 hours ago, DKorn said:
You might want to look at 10.2.1 before you actually try that.Not based on what is taught at RO class, or even presented here
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1 hour ago, ColoradoNick said:
you’re way outside of the shooting area
But that only matters if the WSB says to shoot things from that thing shooting area. And yes I see that your WSB indicates so.
Of course the RM is likely going to complain about consistency and force a reshoot if someone does shoot from outside when the WSB doesn't require it if everyone else has been coloring within the lines.
"gamers gonna game"
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3 hours ago, rtkwe said:
There are 4 (2 paper 2 steel) targets only visible from the bridge according to OP so you'd be eating 4 FTSAs and 6 misses to do that which would bring you pretty close to zeroing out the entire stage on penalty points alone!
He did not say that the targets are only visible from on the bridge itself. They may be visible from the ground in front of the bridge, hence my comment about being sure to indicate in the WSB to specify shooting from the shooting area only.
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Disconnected shooting areas are allowed. It may be worth indicating in the WSB that the bridge platform has fault lines defined. Also be sure that the WSB says to shoot things from the thing shooting area, otherwise I am going to skip the bridge all together.
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Prone with an alternative shooting position is fine. I did one last year that added 17ish (maybe even more) yards to poppers from the non-prone option.
I fyou have prone with no options, it really needs to be the obviously final position for any kind of the physical equity.
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I don't like the separate in ear electronic plugs as I can't ever get them to balance L-R. Everything seems off. I prefer the wired in ear Axil plugs for outdoor shooting.
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You guys worrying about a backup TF being a tad bit different than an S2 and I am here with a Bull Shadow 2 as main with a P10 plastic gun as a backup....
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10 minutes ago, Sarge said:
USPSA Competition Rules
February
20
2
4
41
CHAPTER 8
–
The
Course of Fire
8.1
Firearm Ready Conditions
The ready condition for firearms will normally be as stated below.
However, in the
event that a competitor fails to load the chamber when permitted by the
Written Stage
Briefing
, whether inadvertently or
intentionally, the Range Officer must not take any
action, as the competitor is always responsible for the handling
Not sure what you are trying to say.
If the ready condition is unloaded, then nothing chambered and no ammo in it in the mag well. Pretty easy on that one. If ready condition is loaded then there is a definition of loaded firearm in the glossary and 8.1 says its on the shooter to chamber a round. If no mag is in the gun with a loaded ready condition, then no start. Any ammo in the gun (mag well or cylinder or chamber, then it's loaded and good to start.
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49 minutes ago, RJH said:
Many people were of the opinion that if it was a loaded start and the competitor didn't load their gun that they should be started anyway. This was incorrect in 2008 too, but it was how the rule was misapplied then as well
Those are the folks that need to RTFM then, its covered in two places.
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I don't understand the issue, even a copy of the 2008 USPSA rules has the same 8.1 opening paragraph and definition of "loaded firearm" in the glossary as it does now.
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Who says you need to have bays that are perpendicular to the centerline of the property? Its more dirt, but you can build some of the bays "sideways" so you enter at the uprange end of the side berm and turn left or right to get to the bay itself.
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If you scale the targets in the diagram, it looks like 4ft to the shoulders.
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3 minutes ago, J_Allen said:
I think the example of options - running vs taking the longer shot - is not reality. Take bay 1 of Area 3, it’s like 75 yards long and they used to set up the stage to allow just that option. But NOBODY chose to run, the default was pretty much just take the longer shots. Didn’t matter if it was irons or dot divisions either. So you either force everyone to run long between required positions or you don’t. In a sport where tenths (I won’t say hundreths!) of seconds can make a difference in scoring, a forced run of many seconds doesn’t seem to be warranted. Just my opinion.
When you build such a stage, you need to have a few folks make the run from the various spots you could run from and determine the time it will take on average. Then you need to assess the time required for hard aimed shots. If you can design them so the run is the same as aiming or even slightly longer, then there are options to the stage plan for most shooters. Give the physical person the ability to outrun their aiming and points down, and give the better shot a chance when a less physical person.
It is a hard thing to balance. I have tried it twice. The first time, the target presentations were too hard from the far position so most folks ran and that was the only legit option. The second time was much better, easier targets but still a challenge. Most folks still chose to run but most of them didn't even realize the targets presented from the other locations.
I won't build those kinds of stages very often as it is very hard to balance it. -
Topics like this are why we hold a new to comp shooting class every 1-2 months. A single long day to cover the biggest rules, how scoring works, equipement rules, teach about things like walls and fault lines in a classroom, then go onto the range and cover lateral movement with a reload and uprange movement with a reload since most are from a square range or a 360 degree world since they aren't used to our 180 limits.
Then we move to an actual stage and how to understand and use a WSB, how to approach a stage, the tape and reset process, and how to be a good squad mate. Help them prepare for their first match.
We cover parking lots, CCW/duty folks and how to proceed as well upon arrival to a match.It's been well received and we often have a waitlist each time. 2/3 of the students actually start shooting matches.
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8.1.8 was fine as it was. clarifying something is okay too I guess, but other than division rules that were "its only legal only allowed if stated the rules", the rest of the rules philosophy has always been "its legal unless we say otherwise". And they didn't say otherwise.
The coaching thing is a PITA. An RO can't be 100% sure the shooter heard or followed the coaching but gets penalized regardless. I really hope ROs are smart about applying such penalties, in both SCSA and USPSA. I like how they clarified where to apply the penalty on the coach, but it screws the shooter more.
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P10F is a nice shooter. I use mine for both USPSA and SCSA, though mostly SCSA. Its my backup for USPSA. I EDC a P10C.
The P10 has a slightly lower bore axis, and smaller slide so less reciprocating mass. The grip angle of the front strap is the same between the two but the beavertail angles are a little different. Both are good guns so it will be the ergos that define which one you like probably.
https://www.handgunhero.com/compare/cz-p-10-f-vs-canik-tp9sf
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Since "range" is not defined in the rules, what would a reasonable person outside the shooting world determine makes up a "range"? If it does not include the parking lot on the property that zoned as a shooting range/facility, where is that line between the range and parking lot?
Where I most commonly shoot, the parking lot is at grade and the action bays are below grade (the area allocated to the USPSA match per 2.5.1). There is a fairly clear separation.But what about CMP or Cameo where you can park along the road that connects the bays? Where is the separation between the parking lot and the range where rules apply? If you can't clearly and consistently define that line then I can have my loaded gun anywhere but inside the bays themselves under some folks' parking lot theory.
I have never been to an outdoor range (an actual shooting facility zoned as such) that has not been fenced in. To me, that makes the entire property a "range" and includes the parking lot. Indoor ranges are different with publicly accessible parking lots.
Yes this was long-winded.
Just stay loaded and find an RO and have them clear you when you arrive. Then find an RO to get loaded up again after the match. Or find the designated areas for that. I know that people remove their guns in the cars often. I do it when going places I can't have it. I would much rather use a designated area or have an RO watch me since I find it safer than trying to do it all in the car though. -
2 hours ago, motosapiens said:
or maybe you just shoot classifiers like any other stage instead of swinging for the fences. the hero/zero. mentality combined with foleys flawed logic in adjusting the hhf’s has made it difficult to get high scores without unacceptable (to me) risk, so i just stopped paying very much attention and worry about my match scores.
My post was mainly to stir things up for discussion simply because those the three basic comments I hear from others when this topic comes up.
Personally, while I care that I do consistently well with general improvements in classy results over time, I am not obsessed with them. In fact, a hero or zero run I did for fun kind of burned me, bumping me with two lucky shots I called as misses, when I can't perform like consistently at a match.
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If you find your own overall match performance both locally and at majors is generally aligning with your classification (and you aren't sandbagging) then the classification system is working fine, assuming that the distributions of classes in the match is normal
If you find your match perf is lower than your class then you are shooting only the classifiers that don't reflect typical match/stage shooting challenges and the system is flawed.
If you find your match perf is higher than your class then you are a sandbagger and the system is flawed.
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38 minutes ago, zzt said:
because you are the only one in it.
I'd still end up third place...
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1 hour ago, shred said:
You could argue It cut completely through the target paper and was then stopped by the stick. Does that count? IDK. An edge hit doesn't really pass 'completely' through the target either.
I still think its a large piece of splatter.
In the first pictures posted, the middle ridges of the cardboard are still present and appear under the bullet, so not a full penetration IMO. The second picture could be an edge hit and scored as a NS. Determining if that is a radial tear resulting from the bullet skimming across it is difficult to tell though. I'd probably force a reshoot on this second one since it can not be properly scored.
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9.5.9 says that is not a hit as it didn't pass complete through the target. The target stick, though in theory it does not exist per the rules, prohibited the round from passing through. Thus not a hit.
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10 minutes ago, motosapiens said:
its not necessarily about the scores being similar or different. its about the fact that striker and da guns will disappear from co entirely if they have to compete with 2011s. see limited and open for good examples of this.
regarding “getting smoked” in open….. major is only worth 3-5%. if you weren’t close shooting minor, you won’t be close shooting major either.
its more than just shooting major. frame mounted optics, compensators, 7+ extra rounds in a big stick contribute to the advantages in open. kind of why everyone hates getting bumped to open as the vast majority can't compete against those things with their "regular" guns.
1.1.5 as it pertains to an "unbalanced shooting bridge"
in USPSA/IPSC Rules
Posted
But it is what RMI's teach in the NROI RO course, one of which is what that video I posted is from. If it was not an official view, then they shouldn't be teaching it that way.
I agree that it shouldn't be that way based on the rulebook, but if they are teaching it that way in an official capacity, I am going to take advantage of it when I want. You can't have an entire cadre of ROs being taught that the WSB needs to tell you to shoot from the shooting area and then not let that POV stand.