xdf3
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Posts posted by xdf3
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9 minutes ago, IHAVEGAS said:
There are a lot of free ballistics calculators on the internet if you do a web search, they are fun to play with. I zero at 15, because for my load and distance from muzzle to sight that is the first zero crossing of bullet and point of aim, the second zero crossing is somewhere around 35 yards (going from memory). I could zero at the second crossing but I am lazy
. The ballistics calculator, and some verification on the range, lets you pick the zero crossings you want for minimum error overall.
After the zero is done I check at whatever I think max distance should be , for USPSA something like 50 yards. The check confirms my bullets fly straight more than anything, there have been issues (e.g., crimping too much on coated) where I have been throwing curve balls that didn't break until after the first close zero point.
There must be something wrong with options, the drop I see is much bigger than the one said by rowdyb and Yondering. I used this one for example:
http://gundata.org/ballistic-calculator/
I still can't understand how zero-ing at 50yards makes a so little change below 25 yards. How isn't it about 4" below at 5 yards?
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One new thing I've been told: weighting bullets is useless, what counts is the lenght of the bearing surface of the bullet. Having all 124 grains bullets won't be as good as having the same bearing surface with a 2 grains variance. Any confirmation of this?
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Why are most shooters using .356 color coated/lead? Isn't .357/.358 more precise on most 9mm guns? Is it due to recoil or any other factor?
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On 6/28/2019 at 7:48 AM, Tanders said:
I used to use rice as tumbling media until I got addicted to wet tumbling. Wet tumbling is where it's at, kids! The stainless steel tumbling media can be reused forever and all you need to add is a bit of dish detergent. Cheap AND your brass looks downright sexy when you're finished! Just make sure to dry it in a food dehydrator or oven so that you don't get squibs (been there, done that).
Can you give an example of what is used? Or any link. This is interesting. Does the use ruin brass in the process?
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On 8/12/2019 at 11:39 PM, 11MM said:
Took a class put on by Bob Vogel. He believed in grip so much that he consistently trained with grip strength tools to get his grip strength as strong as it could be. Proper grip on the gun is key. How many good runs by the professionals you watch go a bit off from what they want and grip is usually one of the first things the mention as the reason why.
I think this is one of the things that affects performance the most:
Precision
Speed
If you have a 500Lb force per hand, the gun will not move.
If it doesn't move, you will shoot accurate and fast, with the fastest split time possible (of course you have to aim properly).
That said, what tools did he use? What muscles are involved the most in grip?
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6 minutes ago, Yondering said:
No, rowdyb is right. Even with the slowest 147gr loads, a 50 yard zero puts the round slightly high at intermediate distances, not low, and the max offset is about 1" high between 20-35 yards. POI is not lower than POA except closer than 5 yards, where it's pretty much a point blank shot and only a couple tenths of an inch low at most, or farther than 50 yards. The numbers change slightly if we're using a red dot instead of irons, but not enough to change the point he's making.
So why the opposite isn't true, like zero-ing at 15 yards? And why is it that different from charts?
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7 hours ago, lawboy said:
I do not think that noticing how your competitors are doing and how the course is impacting them is inconsistent with shooting your game. Knowing your competitors' strengths and weaknesses is a valid way to assess how you should attack a particular stage. Making adjustments and decisions about how to address a challenge in the match in part based on where you are relative to others and how they faired with the challenge based on their chosen approach, can assist you in coming out on top. This assumes that at least one goal in every match is to win. I regularly will shoot certain stages conservatively if I saw my top competition just blow it and I know a solid, no-screw-up run will put me beyond reach. On the other hand, if I am behind and running out of stages to catch up, I will push - look for a way to avoid a reload, risk forcing a standing reload for th possible reward of a faster time if I can nail it on that last magazine, etc. Top competitors in all sports do this, including team sports like football. You are in a contest. You are not performing in a vacuum. "Shoot your own game," and "you are your own competition" are phrases that mean you have to figure out how best to attack the challenge of winning based on what you know and can do. Your competitors and their performance and potential abilities are part of the challenge of winning. Otherwise, practice stages by yourself would be just exciting as competition. I know that is not the case for me. Also, being able to adjust to the changing demands and perform well on demand is part of the mental challenge. Feel the pressure, deal with it, refocus it into motivation and clarity. Don't hide from it.
That's exactly how it is. Champions shoot depending on their competitors. Go ask Grauffel, Michel, or any other. No, most of them are NOT playing their own game
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4 minutes ago, Matt1 said:
The downside is they can be so light that they don’t put enough pressure on the FP stop plate which then falls out. Not ideal.
I use the FP springs that comes with Sebo Weapons mains. I run a 10lb main & ext FP with Federal, S&B & CCI primers with no issues.
Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkLike you're pushing the firing pin?
Do you have to set them deep or just at the same brass height?
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26 minutes ago, rowdyb said:
I zero at 50 because that's the hardest shot I'll see and it actually gives you the least amount of hold over/under to deal with. It's the people who zero at 15 who have issues. As someone known as a points shooter rather than being speedy, there is absolutely not a 5" difference anywhere in my bullets path from 0 to 50 yard. The max ordinate is closer to 2" over that distance in my gun/hands.
With a zero at 50 where I aim, the bullet goes at any distance we shoot in competition.
That's still an error, I don't see why not zeroing at 35 yards which would be enough to be perfectly ok at any distance. If I'm shooting a target covered with a no shoot, I feel totally safe (I zeroed at 27-28 yards) even when aiming right above the no shoot. With a 50 yard zero, it will be a no shoot
It's not about gun/hands, it's about the cartridge. Unless you're using 115 grains at 1200+ FPS the difference should be more than just 2", especially at 5-10 yards
Anything from 22 to 35 yards is an optimal zero to me
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Hello
Any downside of using a really light firing pin spring, except for having to change it frequently?
Wouldn't it make much easier to use light main springs?
Obviously not too light to have the firing pin bounce after a strike
Any idea about cutting it?
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12 hours ago, rowdyb said:
zero at 50
Why would you zero at 50? So you hit no shoots / charlie etc... at lower distances? 4-5 inches is a big difference
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23 hours ago, Blackstone45 said:
https://www.rifleshootermag.com/editorial/hitting-a-high-or-low-angle-shot/83768
basically, when you shoot on an incline, you have to work out the actual horizontal distance between you and your target, and hold for that.
Let's say you're shooting at a target 1000 metres away at a 20 degree incline. With a bit of trigonometry, you can work out that your horizontal distance to your target is 940 metres.
So instead of holding for 1000 metres, you would hold for 940 metres.
If you did hold for 1000 metres, your shot would go high as expected.
So the difference for a plate at a 20 degree incline would be almost equal to non-existant. Not even noticeable
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I shot with a GM in my squad last match. It was really good. I had a confirmation of some of my stage plans, some of mine were better at times, and I realized I didn't have to do anything special. The time I realized that I won a stage (a long with 32 rounds) by doing nothing special, in fact. I shot under my usual speed and had good accuracy. He was also inspiring. All positive stuff
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10 hours ago, Blackstone45 said:
It helps if you have a question.
My 9mm is sighted in for 25m, and at 50m, I find I have to hold just under the black on a standard 50m bullseye target
What is that distance? About 2"? Or it is more than expected
I meant about the plate being low. Any explaination with examples? What formula should I check for?
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Anybody has more information about this?
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On 8/9/2019 at 7:36 PM, Yondering said:
That first link is an article by Scheumann about pistol barrel twist rates. It talks about stabilization and how that affects the bullet, and does mention the two potential problems of too many RPM:
- outward expansion of the bullet from centrifugal force (sometimes a problem in high velocity rifles with thin bullets, not a pistol velocity problem)
- exaggerated imbalance of an unbalanced bullet that is either started poorly in the barrel or has a defect
The second of those is the one that applies to us the most - with an imperfect bullet or one where the seating depth and nose runout did not produce a straight start, a slower twist rate minimizes the imbalance. Such a bullet is still less accurate than one started straight with no defects, but a slower twist can be more tolerant of variations in bullet quality. Note that there is no particular twist rate where a bullet is "over stabilized"; it's just a gradual effect as that increases with twist rate.
The first of those above (and the second to some degree) is something that has been a problem in some rifle applications, particularly fast twists and high velocity with thin jacketed varmint bullets; a fast twist rate intended for say 77gr 223 bullets could cause bullet blowup with 40-50gr bullets if velocity was high enough. Because of this, many older shooters claim the twist rate has to be matched to the bullet. However, modern bullet construction is much better, and it's common to achieve excellent accuracy with light varmint bullets in fast barrel twists; one of my own examples is a 1:8 twist 5.56 that shoots great with the 75gr BTHP, but shoots even more accurately with the 50gr Blitz despite the fast twist. Keep in mind that with pistol bullets, we still have a large selection of lower quality bullets available; some plated and coated bullets fit this category (although a good coated bullet can be your most accurate option).
The Scheumann article also talks about how the twist rate is important for stabilization, but velocity mostly does not matter. I.e., we're not trying to match a bullet to specific RPM, which would mean a specific velocity, we're just trying to match the bullet profile (length and diameter) to the twist rate.
It mentions the transonic velocity region and how that can upset bullet flight and degrade accuracy; this is why some shooters claim a 9mm shoots best above a certain speed. The truth is simpler - accuracy is better if you can avoid the transonic region. Subsonic muzzle velocity avoids this completely (note my example above about the 100gr RF at 1,000-1,050 fps), which is what we get with most 9mm 147gr bullets and standard loads, but is achievable with any bullet weight. The other option is to keep muzzle velocity high enough that the down range velocity will not drop into the transonic region; this is a major consideration for long range rifle shooters, and results on target often show accuracy going wild after a certain distance.
The article goes on to talk about their experiments in accuracy, using the 1:32 vs 1:16 twist, and eventually concluding the 1:24 twist is best for 9, 40, and 45. The one big omission (at least relevant to this thread) that I saw in the article was that they didn't talk about how much affect the different twist rates have on accuracy, only what it does. It's important to keep in mind that the effect of using a faster twist is less than other significant factors like using good bullets, seating them straight, and shooting in a quality barrel. Most likely, switching to a good match grade barrel of any twist rate (could be a Scheumann or many others) will net you more accuracy gain than changing to an ideal twist rate. Also keep in mind the difference between comparing 2" and 2.5" groups at 50 yards, and 2" to 8" groups at 25 yards; twist rate may be important in the first instance, but is most likely insignificant in the second.
Hope that helps.
It does help
So for the first part, it might help to consider high quality 115 grains vs good quality 147 grains (just an example). Good quality 115 grains might have issues at longer distances (35+yards) - just a guess -
Why do some people say JHP are the best for accuracy and some others pick lead/coated? I can't understand if some information is missing on both sides.
I made a research about the transonic region and it seems like, under typical conditions, 1100 - 1300 FPS should be avoided. Even around 1050 at low temperatures.
If this has a bigger impact on accuracy, I guess that would make easier to pick 124 - 135 - 147 grains for better accuracy at 35+ yards rather than 115 grains, staying in the typical 125-135 power factor range (with exceptions for 147 grains)
I saw that a typical 124 grain bullet can have an SG factor well above 2.0 (I see the optimal range is 1.4 - 2.0). I hope too much is not affecting accuracy more than a 0.5" at 50 yards
Actually I'm working on the second part. I'd like to start with a good group at 25 yards, and any group from 2.5" or lower will pass the test for farther distances.
I bought some powders and bullets and I'll try them. What I understood is that a 95% of max load will work better for any specific powder, so using a 70% of a fast powder might be a bad idea (better use another powder). Or an 80% of a slow powder.
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I can buy RN .356 124 grains every time here. Any way I could shoot as far as 50 yards with accuracy?
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39 minutes ago, BigJerm said:
It was the Stryk B (sp?) and a brand new firearm. The owner of Liberty Pawn & Gun in Mesa, AZ was the one who said he’d shot one (not sure how much he had shot it) and he liked it.
Then it is a very "old" version compared to the one I'm talking about.
Probably the main thing is that it is available in Italy only. I can't bet on it since I don't own one, but it could probably be called the "Production Killer" since it's the best out of the box, probably better than Shadow2 or Tanfoglio Stock2 Extreme. Magwell, competition sights, perfect trigger pull, short reset, and balanced.
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On 8/9/2019 at 8:32 PM, BigJerm said:
I got to handle one of these in the gun store yesterday. First one I've ever seen in person. Haven't shot but the owner (a competitor) said he had shot it and said it shoots ridiculously flat.
In the hand it felt like a Glock/M&P that had been squished down into my hand. Stupidly-low bore axis. Good competition sights.
The trigger was good for out of the box, but didn't feel nearly as good as my Apex flatty. That's just me. There's also a weird wiggle in the trigger before you start the takeup. I asked the gun store guy if that was this gun's version of a "trigger safety" and he said no, that's just how the trigger is. Good break, short reset (for striker), but strange feeling pull.
Would love to shoot one at some point.
Which Strike One was it? Who was the owner/shooter if he can be named?
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9 hours ago, 11MM said:
Not all guns are destined to be game guns - largely for the points made above about aftermarket accessory support. It might be fun to shoot, but you would be better off with another gun - like a Glock since it kind of looks like a modified Glock.
Actually, the Strike One Ergal is made to be a competition gun, especially for IPSC - Production division. I don't know if it's sold in USA, I'm just trying to understand more about it.
At the moment it costs about 2000/2200€ compared to about 1150-1300€ for a CZ Shadow2. Maybe in US $ it would cost slightly more.
It is IPSC production legal, and it's ready out of the box to be a competition gun. It seems to be similar to the incoming Alien from Laugo Arms, with a magwell ready, short reset, 3Lb trigger pull
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At the moment I am basing everything on what I can double tap and have 2 A's one near eachother with the slowest split possible (0.11-0.14) at 5-7 yards.
It's working with 124 grains at about 132 PF with a fast powder and a specific recoil spring. Whenever I change one factor, it just doesn't work. I would like to, but I feel like it's a really long road.
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I'm curious about any news. Are they good enough for accuracy at 35+ yards or they will lose a bit?
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2 hours ago, AHI said:
I can't see the first one and the second one is just what I googled before, I didn't find any new answer / explaination about RPM's, barrel twist, etc... No research about bullets losing accuracy by going too fast yet (I'd like to find one)
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On 8/7/2019 at 7:01 PM, AHI said:
We went to a 1/32 twist because the 115/125 gr bullets we were required to use were destabilizing
be cause of gyroscopic issues (spinning to fast) by doing this our gunsmiths could build 50 guns that
used the same ammo instead of each having its individual own load.All of my statement are correct .
I prophesy used the word tend because you can acheave the same results with powders in a wide
range of burn rates fast or slow. I will not be posting in this thread or arguing with you on this any more
but you dont understand twist rate and effect in has on 50 yard /meters ammo.I would agree you wont
see a difference at less than 25 yards/meters. 1 in 16 is actually the current preferred rate for 147s. Notice
I said current that may change at any time.
AHI
I tried to search for that kind of information, and I didn't find anything useful yet. I mean, I didn't read "too high RPM makes the bullet lose accuracy", I've just found the opposite (about SG value). So if the bullet can't be stabilized, it will lose accuracy.
I'd be curious to find the opposite statement so I could tell which speed (or bullet length/weight) to avoid. Any way to tell when it's too much?
. The ballistics calculator, and some verification on the range, lets you pick the zero crossings you want for minimum error overall. 
point of aim vs point of impact
in Handgun Techniques
Posted · Edited by xdf3
I'm looking at charts, I don't know what the real drop can be between 5 and 50 (I guess 5 and 30 would be more like 2.5 in that case")
It's really hard to notice the difference unless you have the distances, a rest, or anything that can remove human error. In my case, I think the trigger pull affects less than 10% of the error past 25 yards while aiming and wobble will be the rest
I used the calculator by choosing 124 grains, 9x19, 1050 FPS so a typical IPSC cartridge. I don't know what other options I should look for to read it properly
BTW : It sucks to have very few targets past 25 yards in most matches here (they are usually harder, with a lot of no shoots), and even harder to find ranges with longer distances. I know most top shooters zero from 18 to 42-43 yards