pdxrealtor

I'm using Silhouette. I upped from 5.1 to 5.6 considering the low velocities and the fact max loads 6.1 I felt comfortable making the jump.

We used 5 different guns: Beretta 92 FS Vertec 2 different CZ 75Bs CZ Rammi Kimber Ultra Carry II I noticed the flat primers, just a couple, and was wondering if those were possibly high and therefore getting more pressure against the breech face. I'm not sure why some appear more cratered than others. But the factory ammo in that picture (the ones with the silver primers) appear to have the same amount of cratering on a few. Unless I'm looking through rose colored glasses.... haha. The only way there could be pressure issues is if my bullet is seated far too deep. That would mean it's a much different profile than the Oregon Trail Laser Cast, or the #356242 listed in the Lyman manual.

Just plinking. We shoot at a large steel pig 100 yards out at times. I'd like a little more oomph than the numbers we are at with minimum charge. Perhaps between a 1150-1200 fps. I do agree with your points about +p for plinking.

Thanks for your input! The world of reloading can be painful for the perfectionist mind. I like to know the ins and outs, why and why nots and with something like reloading it's hard to figure some of that out by experience. Hopefully my pictures show up so others can see. I'm pretty confident there are no pressure signs. The one thing that had me second guessing was a mark on some cases shaped like the extractor. After re-reading an article though, I see they talk about this portion of the case being RAISED (from the extractor trying to pull an enlarged case out of the chamber). The marks on my cases are more of a mark or slight indentation. The next question I would have is how much should I go up in grains? Is it a percentage of how many grains I'm at? I'm at the start load of 5.1. In this case it's the 9mm standard. Start load for the +p is 5.7 so this one may be real simple as ..... max load for the no +p is 5.7. That would be about a 12% increase in powder weight.

I will add I've read several articles, some with pictures, and all the good ones state pressure signs may be present but no visible. So, regardless of what these spent casings look like I'd really like to know the answer to my question. Here's pictures of my some of my spent cases. The picture with the casings that have silver primers is factory ammo. The gold primers (Winchester) are my reloads.

Sarge - focusing on making consistent rounds is exactly why I'm trying to get this info. I'm not confident in anaylyzing pressure signs yet. The only variable in the load data I'm using is my bullet which may or may not be close to the bullet in the load data. I gave the COL 0.020 more, and started at minimum load. I shot two hundred rounds. A lot chronographed. They came in under the minimum velocities using a barrel that was .6" longer. In this situation is it likely (not possible, likely) to still have pressure issues?

I'm wondering if it's possible to have lower velocity on a given load data, yet still have pressure issues. Does pressure and velocity go hand in hand? Given the fact I loaded to a longer COL, chronographed the loads and got a lower velocity is it still likely to have high pressures due to too much bullet being in the case?

No one with any feed back huh? Hmmmmm....

Can I create too much pressure by sinking the bullet in the case..... yet still have low velocity? I'm new to reloading and the one piece of lacking information is the bullet specs. Cross referencing several sources doesn't help. My bullet is simply not listed so I have no idea how much bullet is in the case compared to the bullet in the load data I'm using. So I took the advice and started with a bit more COL and minimum charge weights. I'm pretty sure I have no pressure signs from the load I started with but it got me thinking. If velocity is lower than the load data suggests, could the pressure still be too high? Loading 9mm which can get pressure sensitive real quickly from what I read.

I went to the range and put my rounds through several different guns. Got the chrono going and logged a bunch of data. Pretty happy with how things turned out considering this is my first 200 rounds. I had a raised primer and a dud primer, a side from that even the Kimber Ultra Carry was a smooth operator. I have a feeling the Oregon Trail laser cast RN bullet in the Western Powder reload data is similar or the same as the Hi Tek coated LRN bullets I'm using. I started with a minimum load of 5.1 grains (Silhouette powder) and 0.020 more OAL than the manual suggested. I shot out of a barrel that is .6" and .9" longer (CZ 75 B and Beretta Vertec) than the load data test barrel of 4". To summarize - Suggested load data 115 grain bullet - Barrel - 4 " ; COL 1.070 ; Start Load 5.1 grains Silhouette - Primers Winchester SP ; Start Velocity - 1126 FPS Actual Load CZ 75 b - 4.6" Barrel ; COL 1.090 ; Start Load 5.1 grains Silhouette - Primers Winchester SP ; Start Velocity - (Average) 1071 FPS ; Power Factor 123 Actual Load Beretta 92 FS Vertec - 4.9" Barrel ; COL 1.090 ; Start Load 5.1 grains Silhouette - Primers Winchester SP ; Start Velocity - (Average) 1065 FPS ; Power Factor 122 Actual Load CZ 75 b -*Using Federal XM9001 JHP* - 4.6" Barrel ; COL did no measure ; Start Load NA - Primers Federal ; Start Velocity - (Average) 1245 ; Power Factor 143 Do you think the above data suggests going with the longer COL could have lowered the velocity? I mean, a longer barrel with virtually everything else the same yet there's a 50-75 FPS difference. In revolver land a 1/2 inch should be good for ~50 fps, not a loss of 50 fps. If anyone is interested I have data for the 3" pistols too. See attachments for complete chorno info. I was a bit further back from the chrono than I normally am. About 8-10 feet. In the end I compared back to back the Federal round with my reload and want to get closer to the Federal round. That suggests I'm going to head to the +p load data or the border between standard and +p. 5.7 grains is the end of the standard and the start of the +p. I don't plan to shorten the COL. Would love to hear feedback!

Thanks for clarifying. I pulled several bullets even before I loosened up the crimp and the coating was in tact on all but one where I had applied too much crimp. In the end I used your case thickness x2 plus bullet diameter check. All is good! .375-.376.

Hate to be the new guy telling others but I can't pass this one up. Silhouette is absolutely not for magnum loads, at least .357. I tried and tried to (since I have 8lbs) convince myself to use that powder for my .357 loads. Even called and spoke to the ballistician at Western Powders twice. I have recommended loads from him (which aren't published) but the problem is the powder is too position specific and won't fill the case enough in a .357 load. They turn out erratic under the Chorno.... I researched high and low for months before I bought 9mm/.45 acp powder and Silhouette was amongst the top mentioned over and over throughout the years (used to be WAP). True Blue is very close on the burn rate scale and will work very, very, well for 9mm/.45 AND .357 mid to bottom of top end velocities. I got 12lbs of it just for .357 magnum and to possibly try in 9mm. I got 4 lbs of A#9 for the .357 barn burners. Ok... apologies if I came off as the newb teaching the vet. If anything is incorrect I'm all ears. It's just that I literally JUST spent a month on this Silhouette for .357 magnum thing and prior on the ideal 9mm powder. I may not be able to load em', but I can buy the supplies!

I tried without success to find the difference, if any, between the Oregon Trail laser cast lead and the Lyman #356242 lead cast. Anyone know the difference? Thanks for the rest of the answers it clears up a lot of uncertainty for this newbie reloader. I've had this D 650 on my bench for months and part of the reason it's sat there is I've been a bit intimidated by it. As with anything once I jump in I realize just how silly I've been letting intimidation allow procrastination. I'm going to go see how these start loads shoot!

If my guns all like the 1.070 COL. why would I veer from that? Sure later when I'm not trying to bang out some plinking rounds but I don't understand why I'd veer from the load data including the suggested COL, at this point. In any event it seems like a lot suggest going over the 1.070 COL, so I did. I bumped it up to 1.090 and kept with the minimum load of 5.1 grains. This brings me to my next issue. The Dillon 650 is not letting me throw a consistent 5.1 grains. It's either a 5.1 or 5.2. I can get three 5.1 throws, then pull a load random and it's at 5.2 grains. The other variable I'm having is the COL. I set it at 1.090 and tested it on a few empties to make sure it was consistent. After a couple hundred rounds I'm seeing 1.0835 - 1.093. I'm wondering if this is from a variance in the case or the lead nose of the bullet? I caught a couple that had high primers and reseated them, so it's not that.

The bullets are 115 grain hi-tek coated. I'm using Silhouette

What would be a happy medium? RIght now I want to have a factory type load. Fires in anything, is perfect for nothing. These are bulk plinkers with the heavier loads aimed to mimic carry loads only in terms of feel for the purpose of accurate training. I just dialed the COL in at 1.090. No issues in all the guns I have laying around. Gives a bit more space in the case as 1.070 is suggested.

Thanks. The missing link for us noobs is bullet data. All other data is clearly spelled out in load books and powder manufacturer manuals. In both sources the only wildcard is the bullet. I do the logical thing and head on over to the bullet manufacturer page and get nothing. No data. I suppose it will all come with time. I was a bit off in my numbers above between the Lyman and Western Powder load data. The min/max powder charge for A#5 and the 115/120 L RN bullet is very close. The OAL from the powder supplier is 1.070, not 1.060. And, in the Lyman for the 120 grain bullet is 1.065. All data is cross checking OK now that I re-checked it. I see what you're saying. Upping the OAL is lowering the pressure using the same min/max charge numbers. I also ready, at least for 9mm, a good COL starting point is one that drops in your barrels without issue. Perhaps I'll start at a 1.090 COL and minimum charge. I think that will be safe and since all the factory ammo I've check for COL is above 1.100 I should have no issues in any gun I own, though I will drop a couple dummies in the barrel and cycle them as well.

The coating should be removed completely, or, the coating should be fully in tact with no streaks?

Thanks both. I mean 115s measuring 112, haven't found any higher than the 115 advertised rate. I only weight a few out of a handful a 3k pack. So it doesn't sound like the - 3 grain variance accounts for the .5 grain powder weight difference between the powder manufacturer load data and load data book I have. Meaning the load data is different for other reasons. I think leaning towards the powder manufacturer data is the logical thing to do, even though it is .5 grains more for each min/max load with only a .5 grain (120 vs. 115) bullet weight difference. How's this sound to the experienced guys out there? New loader here.... I just loaded up some dummy rounds at the 1.060 COL suggested by the manufacturer load data and they sure look short, but also cycle through my guns just fine and, of course, pass the drop in barrel test. I guess while I'm here I should ask about crimping to make sure I'm understanding what I've read. I am flaring just enough to drop the lead in without much effort. I setup crimp just enough to close the belle. Correct? With this short cartridge if I crimp too much I crease the brass case.

What is the acceptable, if any, variance in lead cast bullet weight? I'm getting at advertised to -3 grain weights. Normal or not? I got to thinking about this after looking at the powder companies reloading data for a 9mm 115g RNLC bullet then comparing that data to the Lyman 49th addition which does not have a 115 RNLC, but has a 120g RNLC. The COL between the two is .005 shorter on the 120g in the Lyman manual. The only powders used by both sources is AA #5, and the min/max loads are quite different. To be exact .5 grains on either end. So, the powder companies start load is the Lyman's max load. Again, the variable being the suggested COL and bullet weight. Going to FINALLY fire up the 650 and am starting with the 9mm. This is more of a curiosity thing. I'm just looking for others experienced input on the 'whys'. Since my powder is not mentioned in the Lyman I will lean towards the powder manufacturers load data.

I'm leaning towards carving out the center like the one pictured above. I like how it removes over half the weight yet maintains the 'dust cover' and looks. I am still trying to figure out what tool(s)and approach would be best.

Thank you!

Is any MIM hammer capable of being fitted to any MIM revolver? I'm looking at picking a couple up and they list several different MIM styles under the 586, which is the gun I'm playing with. Here's an example... https://www.gunpartscorp.com/Products/1300190.htm

Both great ideas!

Thanks I will take a look. If anything I need a good excuse to go pick up my drill press and set it up where I live. Funny..... there's gotta be something creative you can do with those!?!!