[M3k stock chokes? Keep or upgrade?]

I think the M3K comes with Cylinder, IC, and Modified, right? If so, I'd say you're pretty much set for most distances. 45 yards with birdshot starts to get a little sketchy, depending on the target type, but personally speaking, I've never run into a stage that required anything tighter than a Mod, and I tend to just leave an IC in there like 80% of the time. 

 

You almost certainly don't need to buy new ones before the first match. Aftermarket chokes from a quality manufacturer will probably pattern a little more consistently than the stock chokes, but they're not going to hold you back at all. You also might want to consider eventually picking up some additional chokes to fill out the collection a bit (e.g., getting an LM to have something between IC and Mod to fine-tune your pattern if you want to), but you probably don't need those any time soon.

 

Some good notes on the subject by someone who knows much more about it than I do:

https://ammoguru.com/pats-notes-field-shotgun-chokes-3gunner/

[MOA Stoeger vs Beretta 1301 Comp]

I mean... I guess?

 

The M3K does come with a set of shims that gives you a pretty good range of adjustments for stock drop. I can't say for sure that it'll be sufficient to eliminate the face-punching for you, because I've never had any issues with it myself. Other people I've loaned the gun out to have complained about it, but I've always chalked that up to the short LOP stock that I have on there to accommodate my T-Rex arms making it hard for them to keep it tucked into their shoulder properly, but it's possible that there was an issue with the stock drop as well.

 

Using the shims to fit the stock properly will certainly help, though without knowing the exact skeletal structure of your face, kinda hard to say whether it'll solve the problem completely. Tossing an upgraded recoil pad and/or a cheek pad onto the stock might help a bit, also.

[MOA Stoeger vs Beretta 1301 Comp]

I can't speak to the Beretta, since I have no direct experience with it. The only thing I'll say about a direct comparison is a reminder that being "known to be softer shooting" is likely a more generic feature of gas- vs. inertia-operated shotguns in general than anything specific to either the 1301 or the M3K.

 

This is purely anecdotal, but I've been using an M3K for about 4 years now and haven't had any substantial issues in quite some time. I'm not going to lie, it was a little rough when I got it, but after about an afternoon's worth of work, it ran almost 100%. The only issues I saw with it after a bit of judicious filing and polishing were:

1. Failures to extract because I was a moron and mounted a match saver too close to the ejection port, so the spent hull would get hung up on the back of the spare shell. Moved the match saver and no issues since.

2. Failures to extract when using absolute bottom-tier shells that are known to have out-of-spec rims that I've seen plenty of different guns choke on. Any ammo equal to or better than Federal bulk-pack birdshot has run fine.

 

Given that every single thing that I changed on my M3K was something that MOA Precision recommends, I'm certain that they'd be able to turn out a a good gun - certainly much better than the one that I messed with myself. My personal experience is that no gun is going to be 100% ready to go out of the box, and even given that I'm relatively handy and enjoy tinkering with things, I'm not as good at tuning a gun for competition as an actual gunsmith would be.

 

A few months ago, I wound up some extra cash in my pocket and decided to upgrade my shotgun - my budget would allow me to buy a stock Benelli or another M3K and have it worked over by a professional smith. I went with the latter option, and it's been working out for me well enough so far.... So my preference would be to buy a less-nice gun that's been tuned by someone who knows what they're doing over a nicer gun that I'm going to have to do more work on myself.

[223 bullet choice for 2 gun 5K run n gun]

38 minutes ago, wgj3 said:

I would think that these type events wouldnt have you reaching out to the extremes. I would load up some hot 50-53gr stuff and roll with a single load to cut down the stuff to carry.

 

Depends. Granted, this is entirely anecdotal... but like I said earlier, I've done two of these things. One of them didn't have any rifle out past 300 yards, and for that one, I agree, 55 grain stuff is all you need. The other had two different stages with rifle targets out to 500 yards, and I was glad to have a couple of mags of heavy stuff. You could probably hit something at that distance with a hot 50-53 grain load... but it's probably not going to have enough oomph at that distance to be clearly visible to the RO that's calling the hits on target.

[223 bullet choice for 2 gun 5K run n gun]

I've only done a couple of run and gun events, but for both of them, rifle targets on a given stage were generally all placed at about the same distances. It kind of makes sense from a logistical perspective - generally, the shooting areas along the route are kind of limited, and the ones that let you reach out past 300 yards or so will be even more limited, and there's not much point in wasting one of your few opportunities to push out to long range by putting a bunch of targets at 50 yards. There might be a couple of closer targets on a stage that's predominantly long range, but by and large, I'd expect each rifle stage to be heavily skewed in one direction or the other.

 

In the last run and gun event that I did, I loaded a few magazines of 55 gr. and a couple magazines of heavier stuff. I went out of my way to avoid any kind of standing mag changes; if the targets were mostly distant, with a couple of closer ones, I'd just use a mag with the heavy stuff and accept burning a few more rounds on targets that were close enough that they weren't really required. That would get expensive if there were only 1 or 2 long-range targets on a stage with a bunch of closer stuff, but I'd consider a layout like that to be pretty unlikely for the reasons described above. And even if they did set up a stage with a bunch of close stuff and only a couple of long-range targets, odds are very low that they'd all be engaged from one single, static position, so you'd be able to swap mags while moving between positions and not costing yourself time.

 

In 3 gun, I'll actually mix and match the loads within a single magazine based on my stage plan, but that depends on knowing the stage layout in advance. Even the event coordinators for the run and gun did post the shooting stages in advance, it's probably not realistic to try to keep track of individual mixed-load mags when you're carrying 5 or 6 of them instead of 1 or 2. 

 

Also, generally speaking, I actually prefer to load heavy long-range loads in a 30-rounder instead of a 20. For long range stuff, I want to prone out if I can, and a 30-rounder is the right height to help support the rifle in prone position, while a 20-rounder is too short.

[ELS kit issues]

So, much as I hate to be That Guy, I do have to ask the equivalent of "have you tried turning it off and back on again?" - are you sure you don't have the forks mounted backwards? There's a small lip of raised material around the screw mounting holes on one side that provides a bit of standoff between the forks and the pouches and generally provides enough clearance to allow easy installation and removal in the receiver plate. I don't have any personal experience with the Safariland pouches, so it's possible that you'd need an additional spacer or shim on those... but I've never needed anything like that on any of the pouches that I've used. And it would seem odd that the same people who make the ELS hardware would make a mag pouch that wasn't compatible with it.

[SLR Gas Block Issue]

Sounds like you might be closing in on an ammo-related issue, but in case that proves to be a dead end, I'd recommend talking to SLR directly. I've done that before, and they're INCREDIBLY responsive.

 

(This is going to sound like a shill post, so I'll clarify up-front that I am in no way affiliated with SLR. Don't work for them, don't know anyone who works for them, I don't shoot nearly well enough for sponsorship or potential sponsorship to be an issue, and none of that is going to change anytime soon).

 

I had an SLR gas block seize up on a .300 BLK SBR upper. I'd tried a bunch of things to loosen it up (soaking in solvents, etc.), and finally just dropped them a line on the automated contact form on their website asking for other recommendations. Not requesting an exchange or claiming the product was faulty, just listing what I'd done and asking if they could think of any other way to free up the adjustment screw. This was on a holiday weekend, and I wasn't even really expecting a response. Not only did I get an email response in a matter of hours, they offered to exchange it for a new gas block, and before I could even respond to that offer via email, I had a tracking number for a replacement (they'd pulled my shipping address from when I'd ordered the stuck one from them originally), and I had a new gas block in my hands like 3 days after that.

 

Again, not trying to sound like a shill, but I think it's worth recognizing outstanding customer service when you see it, and make sure that other folks know about it when it could be useful to them.

[Scope mount height]

I don't think that a 20 MOA mount would hurt anything, but it's not necessary for a couple of different reasons. First off, the incline on the mount is intended primarily to keep you from running out of elevation adjustment range on your optic when dialing for a range longer than what it was originally zeroed at. You're basically never going to dial elevation on an optic in 3 gun - you'll zero at whatever range you want to zero at (probably either 100 or 200 yards, almost certainly no more than 300), then hold for elevation instead of dialing.

 

Besides that, like you said, you're unlikely to run into anything beyond 600 yards in 3 gun anyway, and even if you did want to dial for elevation at that range, that's probably not far enough beyond your likely zero distance to run out of adjustment range on the optic.

 

Edit: oh, and I've got that same stock on a lightweight rifle build. I'm not an expert or anything, but I'd consider to be pretty typical in terms of cheekpiece height/thickness - not going to support anything unusually-high (which, for the record, I don't think any of the Geissele mounts are), but doesn't require anything super-low, either.

[Scope mount height]

It's all going to come down to the geometry of the stock that you're using and your body mechanics getting into different shooting positions. Don't know if you're a podcast guy, but there's a recent episode of the 3 Gun Show that has a pretty good discussion on this topic:

https://3gunshow.com/2018/04/03/182-long-range-preparation-with-reuben-aleckson/

 

tl;dr - focus on accommodating your head/eye alignment in the least-forgiving position, typically prone. Don't worry too much about getting a "heads-up" alignment while running and gunning on 1x, since the eyebox is going to be more forgiving on 1x anyway. There are a lot of guys who favor an extra-high mount that lets them go more heads-up, but they usually combine that with an adjustable cheekpiece that they can elevate to still get good and repeatable cheek weld in prone.

 

That said... 1.5" isn't all that high, so you'd probably be fine with that. You can still see through an optic that's mounted too high, even with less-than-perfect cheek weld... but if the optic's too low, you can't exactly force your face through the stock to get a good view. Plus, even if you don't have an adjustable cheekpiece on your stock, you can always add just a bit of height with a pad.

 

I know that this isn't what you asked, but a few anecdotal data points: my 3 gun rifle has a Magpul UBR stock, so probably a little thicker/more solid than an M4-style stock, but no cheek risers or anything. I've had no issues with eye alignment using Burris (1.6" centerline height) or Aero Precision (1.5" centerline height). My favorite thus far has been a Warne mount, which has a 1.43" centerline height.

[Pistol Mag Pouches/Shotshell Caddies?]

Personally, I've settled on using Ghost 360 pouches for pistol mags. Good retention, almost universal, and fairly inexpensive. They're not compatible with ELS forks out of the box, but you can order an adapter from Shapeways. If you go that route, you can sometimes even buy the pouch only (no belt mounting attachments) from places like Shooter's Connection or the Ben Stoeger Pro Shop for substantially less than the whole pouch normally goes for. But I've never seen anyone have any complaints about the Safariland pouches.

 

Same deal for shotshell caddies. I've used Taccom and Invictus Practical models - between the two, I prefer the IP, but both work fine. Again, you wouldn't go wrong with the Safariland models, either.

 

I ran an OG Shadow in 3 gun until recently, and retention holsters are difficult to find. The "universal" Safariland model 578 with the GLS system actually works pretty well, and it's what I used most of the time. If you want something made specifically for the gun, there are a couple of custom holster makers who make models with a Blade Tech WRS hood. I have personal experience with KT Mech (good prices, not sure if the SP01 model would fit the Shadow 2 without a bit of reshaping around the trigger guard) and Red Hill Tactical (a little more spendy, but they do make a model specifically for the Shadow 2). No complaints with either of them in terms of quality or service. There probably some other options out there, but like I said, that's what I have personal experience with.

[JP coupon code / sale?]

I have only ever seen them run sales on Black Friday/Cyber Monday... but there's always a chance that there have been other sales that I've missed.

 

If I recall correctly, the BF sale was something like 10% off site-wide, if that matters any.

[Source for Shadow 2 Right-Hand Thin Safety Only?]

Thanks for the inputs, everyone! Think I've got it figured out.

 

On 4/27/2018 at 9:02 PM, magpulled said:

I’ve got a thin set for a shadow 2 I’d sale for a reasonable price. On if interested 

 

Thanks for the offer... kind of shame that I already jumped on another solution, since this would be kind of fitting. It's a new slide and barrel, but I think that the frame of the pistol I'm putting that safety on would look VERY familiar to you....

[Source for Shadow 2 Right-Hand Thin Safety Only?]

19 hours ago, George16 said:

I have a set of wide left and thin right from my shadow 2. It came with the gun along with the extended safety. I took out the thin set (wide left, thin right) and installed the extended safety when I got my gun from my FFL.

 

I also have a set of TSO safety that I replaced with the Shadow 2 extended safety available.

 

pm me if you want to buy it. I’m in the US too.

 

Thanks, George. Done and done.

 

19 hours ago, IHAVEGAS said:

A Dremel or a belt sander or a hand file + a vice and a bit of touch up blue ($6.00 ish ) at any gun store.

 

 

 

An excellent suggestion, and 5 years ago, I would have jumped straight to that option without bugging anyone... but my work/life balance has shifted more towards the "work" side recently. Fortunately, that means that I've got a little more money to pay for parts and/or work, since I don't have the time to do them myself....

[Cz for 3 gun]

To echo a common theme, I'm going to say that there are multiple good options and the choice really comes down to what, if anything, you're going to use the gun for outside of 3 gun.

 

A Shadow, Shadow 2, or really any kind of SP01 variant will be great in both 3 gun and USPSA Production. I've been shooting a Shadow in 3 gun for about 3 years, never had an issue with it. Along the way, I picked up a Tactical Sport in .40 to shoot in USPSA Limited (I mostly shoot USPSA as practice for 3 gun, and I find Limited to be more directly analogous to 3 gun-style pistol shooting than Production), and recently upgraded to a 9 mm Tactical Sport for 3 gun. It's an improvement over the Shadow, but hardly a night and day difference. You can fit ~1-2 more rounds in a TS 140 mm mag, the sight radius is a tad longer, and the stock trigger is better. But a Shadow or Shadow 2 would probably be about 90% of the same gun for less cost, and the gap between them narrows even more with aftermarket parts and custom work. A Shadow, TS, or TSO will all work okay in 3 gun. If you're going to shoot more Limited than Production, go for a TS or TSO. If you're going to shoot more Production, go with a Shadow or Shadow 2. If you don't care, go with whatever you can find the cheapest.

 

Again, this has already come up, but I'll reiterate the point about the factory safety. I've been bitten by it coming off in a dump bucket while dropping it before. I strongly recommend a stiffer detent spring for the safety (available here: http://www.dsperman.com/), and even then, you probably want to put in a lower profile lever on one side, then practice gingerly grounding the gun on that side. In the meantime get used to quickly dropping the mag and racking the slide before you dump it.....

[Source for Shadow 2 Right-Hand Thin Safety Only?]

I did a quick search of this forum and didn't find anything exactly on this subject, but please feel free to yell at me and point at a prior thread if I'm missing where this question has come up before.

 

I'm currently tweaking a customized Tactical Sport for use in 3-gun. Since I'm going to be abandoning the pistol in the occasional dump bucket, I'd really like to avoid having the safety flip itself off if I happen to catch it against the side of the bucket in the wrong way. I've already replaced the stock safety detent spring with a stiffer aftermarket unit, but to be on the safe side, I'd also like to look at changing up the safety lever geometry itself. I understand that the Shadow 2 safeties will work with a TS frame, and the thin Shadow 2 safety looks to be a nice solution. I've found a few outlets that sell Shadow 2 safety sets with a wide left-hand lever and a thin right-hand lever, which would be a perfect setup for my purposes... but they're all in Canada (apparently, Canadian Shadow 2s ship in that configuration or something?), I'm in the U.S., and the Canadian vendors can't ship internationally. Also found some European vendors (like Sebo) that do ship internationally and have some individual safety levers available, but not the exact ones that I'd need.

 

All of the domestic vendors that I can find just sell sets of wide safeties or sets of thin safeties, and it seems like a bit of a waste to drop $90 on a thin safety set when i'm only going to use one of them. I'll do that if I have to do, but before that, figured I'd ask: does anyone know of a source for buying individual right-hand thin safety levers for a Shadow 2 (or maybe even a set with a wide left-side lever and thin right-side one)?

[Ft Sill 2018 Multigun]

So... the MWR website says: "Registration opens 7 April 2018 at 8:00 am Central Time."

 

That was half an hour ago, and still nothing on the website or in practiscore. Looks like the Facebook page they used for last year's match has been deleted also. Anyone know of any super-secret source of registration info?