Schutzenmeister
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Posts posted by Schutzenmeister
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An interesting read, somewhat parallel to what we're discussing here :
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Suggest you include the following document: Handgun_2nd_1981_OCR.pdf
At 3.38 it clearly and unmistakably describes hit factor about 3 years BEFORE USPSA came to be.
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From the USPSA By Laws:
QuoteARTICLE 3 - OBJECTS AND PURPOSES:
3.1 Consistent with the Certificate of Incorporation adopted to form this Corporation:
The nature of the business or purposes to be conducted or promoted is to solicit, receive and maintain a fund or funds, the principal and income of which shall be applied exclusively for charitable purposes, and in particular for the promotion of amateur national and international athletic contests principally in the area of practical firearms competition. As a means to this end, such purposes are to be carried out:
(a) By sponsoring national and international practical firearms contests;
(b) By establishing a system for the conduct of such competition;
(c) By establishing a program for the training of range officers and officials for the safe administration of the sport;
(d) By raising money to enable the Corporation to pay, in whole or in part, the expenses of such competitions including attendant publicity and travel expenses; and
(e) Either directly or indirectly, either alone or in conjunction with others, whether such others be persons or organizations of any nature, such as firms, trusts, associations, syndicates, institutions, agencies, corporations or governmental bureaus, departments or agencies, by doing all such things and acts, and engaging in such activities as are necessary, useful, suitable, desirable or proper to carry out the purposes set forth herein.It seems to me that if we want to radically change how we go about the fiscal portions of the Nationals we may need to somewhat change the By Laws ...
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I don't recall the interview, however ...
Were I younger with better eyes, I'd go with a comp. At 69, the dot is more useful.
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23 minutes ago, shred said:
One Nationals, run-whatcha-brung. Five days, 1000 shooters and you can pay the ROs more. Done.
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Oh yeah ... I almost forgot that huge staff banquet at the last nationals I worked. Pizza and beer at the range. People want to complain about that?
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4 minutes ago, perttime said:
What compensation does a USPSA RO get?
I'm on the other side of the world, and shoot IPSC. Here, a RO shoots the Match for free, gets a roof over his/her head (which could be a bed at a hotel or cabin, or a mattress on the floor with a dozen others) and gets a nourishing lunch. A Range Master, or other higher positioned person, has some more benefits but no actual pay.
Pretty much similar here. Nationals will generally also add some compensation for travel.
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1 hour ago, Diver123 said:
Somewhere it was pointed out that the term hit factor had been described in the 1936. Well before IPSC which used it in 1976. This is all according to John p Mark who filed with the Patent and trademark office with supporting videos to not grant the request.
In what context was this?
The only thing I can find from that time period had to do with the development of the Cutts compensator for the Thompson SMG and the BAR. That was in reference to improving a shooter's ability to put more rounds on target per minute due to reduced muzzle rise while firing in full auto.
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2 hours ago, Diver123 said:
This has the smell of managing director and head of media relations if I was to guess. The only people with the power to do such. An attorney has already sent a letter asking for the trademark to be rejected due to its common use. This is kinda paraphrased so dont flame on exact wording.
IF this is correct, they each need to be seriously schooled in the fact that USPSA did NOT invent the process or terminology. As minimum, IPSC got there first and we inherited it from them when USPSA became a member region of IPSC.
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1 hour ago, ddc said:
Which begs the question ...
Who was responsible?
Unknown, at this point in time. I think we may need to give things a few days for the inevitable defication storm (at BoD/HQ levels) to percolate before any answers are forthcoming. That's not a jab at anyone on the board ... just a cold look at reality. Hopefully, we should hear something after the next BoD meeting.
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9 hours ago, BritinUSA said:
A7 director is on record as stating that he had no idea they were going to attempt to trademark the phrase. Ben Berry reposted the comment, so I assume he was equally blind-sided.
Ben Berry also stated that this was done before the January BOD meeting and no mention of it was made during that meeting.
I'm given to understand the current President was blindsided as well.
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1 hour ago, BritinUSA said:
A red-dot is basically a Heads-Up-Display, so you were on the right track.
Actually, I explained it exactly that way to the USAF 3 Star (3rd AF/CC) back about 1995!
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19 minutes ago, outerlimits said:
I could try to explain how we determined power factor back then using a pendulum. but most of you would fall asleep...
Problem was, if you put too many rounds in one you needed to recalibrate it due to it getting heavier.
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36 minutes ago, shred said:
In 1974 Cooper called it "Comstock Count". Use of a term doesn't necessarily foreclose on a trademark but does make it more difficult.
Thanks ... I just looked up the 1979 article in American Handgunner by Cooper. He was still using the Comstock Count verbige at the time.
9 minutes ago, BritinUSA said:PSC Rule Book 1981 mentions Hit Factor scoring which predates the claim in the Trademark Application
Thank you very much ... I knew the IPSC usage of the term predated USPSA's existance. This documents it well. A reminder to all ... USPSA Rules originally came from IPSC rules!
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Unless I'm mistaken, Jeff Cooper was using the term "Hit Factor" by 1979 ... 5 years before USPSA came into existence!
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Still interesting ... Here's a link to the application:
HIT FACTOR - United States Practical Shooting Association Trademark Registration (uspto.report)
I'm just guessing here, but I believe that IPSC, as a minimum, could possibly make calim they used this term before USPSA.
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7 minutes ago, shred said:
Filed Jan 17, 2024. Seems, er, challenging to get, but maybe the examiner isn't paying attention. They set up a bunch of "Hit Factor" domains and sites probably to provide some justification for the TM.
Interesting ... Was there any mention of this in any recent BoD meetings?
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20 minutes ago, Michaelsabre said:
Have I mentioned I started only 5 months ago? Those GMs had built muscle memory 10 years ago.
Trust me on this ... If "those" GMs thought they could gain a competitive advantage by switching to what you suggest, THEY WOULD DO IT! You might want to consider competitive strategies that are proven to work ... But, it's your choice!
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7 minutes ago, Rich406 said:
Asking a volunteer to essentially pay for volunteering is a good way to get no volunteers.
"Volunteering" in this context = Working your butt off ...
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45 minutes ago, Jim Watson said:
A lot of the Cool Guys here start in a gunfighter crouch with their gun hand near the gun butt and their off hand hovering over their crotch.
Kind of my point ... "Cool guys," "B grade western wannabes." How many can be said as true contenders to win the next Nationals?
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19 minutes ago, shred said:
"Staff reset" is different from "ROs reset" in the IPSC world.
Works best in places where there's a supply of labor that doesn't need or want to RO. You can run matches very efficiently and conveniently that way if you can get the cash and bodies to match up, but figure 3 setters per stage * number of stages * number of days * day labor rate.
IPSC actually recommends 1 person to reset for every 6 rounds fired in a stage. I think that may be a bit much, but the concept of 1 resetter for every x rounds in a stage is a good rule of thumb. That is, of course, if the match can AFFORD it.
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The best argument against doing this is to ask "Why?" Take a look at the BEST shooters in the world in this sport. Not the best at your club or section. Check the consistent national and world champions.
I've been doing this for 30+ years and I've seen most all of them in that time. I don't recall ever seeing one of them starting like what the OP suggests. That should be telling you something right there!
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52 minutes ago, Sarge said:
He lost me at 36 minutes when he said all major matches should be staff reset. That will always be a hard no from me.
I've no real problem with staff reset ... PROVIDED they hire enough staff to make it feasible. Major matches currently barely break even, or run at a loss. So, good luck affording the extra expenses of roughly doubling the staff needed.
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I would also recommend you carefully check the appropriate Production Division List for either IPSC or USPSA, depending on whether you actually intend to shoot in an IPSC or a USPSA match. They are NOT identical! Note the specific variant of your model and WHERE it was made. The IPSC version generally does not approve the models sold by CZ-USA.
Good luck ...
Hit factor matches vs USPSA matches
in USPSA/IPSC Shooting
Posted
Correctly quoted ... One cannot as an individual join IPSC. USPSA is the US Region within IPSC. As such, any USPSA club has full authority to run a match under IPSC rules. The key is, if you're going to do it, you need to do it under IPSC rules!