TyinTX
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Posts posted by TyinTX
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Why futz around? A lot of talk is about "getting a cheap shotgun to get started in 3 gun". After you put 100 tube on, and 100 worth of little parts, and some stuff done to it- it's at least an 800 gun. I bought one, a Stoeger, it's an ok hunting gun I wouldn't mind walking my estate in the country in, but why try to make a race car out of the family car. It's gonna cost, no matter what. Nothing is free. I took it back.
Can't speak for everybody, but the family car is already pressed into service. Thats what happened when I threw a tube on my Nova and started playing. $800 is about my max budget, I shoot for fun. When I'm better and get to shoot a major match as long as the Stoeger runs it will not be the piece of gear holding me back. The cost of guns is insignificant in the long run to ammo, but right now the actual family car needs gas and fancy top of the line tricked out guns don't do much good with me behind them yelling "Bang!"
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Looking forward to testing the Carbon Arms tube. If it runs as advertised, we will offer it as a package upgrade and stock them on-the-shelf. There are benefits to the one-piece polished tube in theory. Can't wait to see how much improvement it makes in real life!
This is good news to hear. I'm wanting to get a m3000 from you over the winter and I like the idea of the CA tube over needing to put a tube and barrel clamp. Now if I can just find the way to sneak it all under the wife's radar.
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If we are going to limit rifle magazines we need to limit pistol magazines as well! After all there would be no separation between a Tac-Optics pistol and a Limited pistol. We need clear equipment divisions...so it seems....so lets limit pistols to a 126mm magazine in Limited (140mm for single stack). We would now have a CLEAR division of equipment between Limited and Tac Optic. Down loading WOULD NOT be allowed as we need them to look, feel, and BE different!
I agree but as long as we are limiting rifles and pistols to "Factory Standard" magazines we have to limit the shotgun to that as well. 8+1 is extended capacity on most shotguns so we must have factory mag tube lengths only, no after market tubes. Got to keep us scurvy limited shooters separated from the Tac-ops shooters. I guess my pale Irish skin will get me bumped from the class though because SPF-15 is barely adequate.
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Rainier arms Force handguards have inside big enough for your purposes. I've had mine since they came out and really like it. Very solid yet light.
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Hare-braned idea...... Probably getting ready to take some tomatoes in the face but here goes!
He-Man Class - All firearms in this class must meet the limited rules with the following restrictions:
All handguns must be .45 ACP or .45 GAP (.44 Magnum is also acceptable). Pistol magazines may not be loaded with more than ten(10) rounds.
Rifles must be .308 or 30.06.
Rifle magazines in HM Class shall not be loaded with more than twenty (20) rounds.
Rifle sights are limited to one set of irons or a 1x optic. Variable power scopes are NOT allowed in this class.
Shotguns in this class must be 12 gauge and pump action. Optics are not allowed. Capacity is restricted to 9 rounds.
Shotgun barrel porting or compensators are not allowed.
Limited
Pistols with custom or factory installed electronic sights, optical sights, extended sights, compensators or barrel porting are NOT allowed in this class.
Pistol magazines shall not exceed 170mm overall length for single stacks, and shall not exceed 140mm OAL for staggered magazines.
Rifle sites are either iron or 1x only. A variable optic is not allowed.
Rifle external supporting devices are not allowed in this class. (i.e. bipods, vertical foregrips that are rested on ground or props, mag pads/additions designed to enlarge the footprint of a single mag that are rested on the ground or props)
Rifle magazines are limited to traditional double stack mags with capacity of no more than 40 rounds. Cinched mags are not allowed.
Rifle compensators are no larger than 1” in diameter and 3” long (muzzle to end of comp) allowed in this class.
Shotguns sights are restricted to iron. No electronic sites are allowed.
Shotgun barrel porting or compensators are not allowed.
Shotguns capacity is restricted to no more than 9 rounds before the start and no more than a capacity of 10.
Heavy Irons - Rifle 308, 20 rounds max, iron sights or one 1x optic, pistol and shotgun same as described in Limited.
Limited Scope (TacOps)
Pistols with custom or factory installed electronic sights, optical sights, extended sights, compensators or barrel porting are NOT allowed in this class.
Pistol magazines shall not exceed 170mm overall length for single stacks, and shall not exceed 140mm OAL for staggered magazines.
Rifle sites are limited to 1 variable optic and one set of iron sights.
Rifle external supporting devices are not allowed in this class. (i.e. bipods or vertical foregrips that extend into bipods)
Rifle magazines that are traditional double stack mags. There are NO “beta/C” or drum mags allowed in this class. Cinched mags are allowed.
Rifle compensators are no larger than 1” in diameter and 3” long (muzzle to end of comp) allowed in this class.
Shotguns sights are restricted to iron. No electronic sites are allowed.
Shotgun barrel porting or compensators are not allowed.
Shotguns capacity is restricted to no more than 9 rounds before the start.
Heavy Scope - Rifle 308, 1 optic and 1 set of offset irons; pistol and shotgun same as that in Limited Scope.
Modified Scope (Modified)
Pistols sights are limited to one set of irons or one 1x optic.
Pistol magazines shall not exceed 170mm overall.
Pistol barrel porting or compensator is not allowed.
Rifle sights are limited to one variable optic and one 1x optic sight.
Rifle external supporting devices are allowed in this class. (i.e. bipods or vertical foregrips that extend into bipods)
Rifle magazines are not restricted. (Beta C’s are allowed)
Rifle compensators are no larger than 1” in diameter and 3” long (muzzle to end of comp) allowed in this class.
Shotguns sights are not restricted.
Shotgun barrel porting or compensators are not allowed.
Shotguns capacity is restricted to no more than 13 rounds before the start.
Open Class
There is no limit on accessories except that shotgun speed loaders must have the primer relief cut
These seem to have a reasonable progression from division to division. Might accomplish the OP's original intent of splitting limited scope.
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Nope not speaking Klingon. I monopod off 30s and not the 40s. I just like the choice. And the shotgun 8+1 start works for me so why make me plug my 1 extra shell. I enjoy the challenge of limited being the rifle sight and being able to very easily compare my times to the Tac Scope guys. I just play by the rules, don't make them like some of the people who have commented in here.
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Per KM in another thread -
The old S.O.F. rule for:
1) Shotgun was 22" barrel max and tube could be no more than 1" past end of barrel. ( this allowed for a 9 round tube)
2) Iron sight rifles they had to weigh no more than 9.5 pounds WITH SLING! for minor, and 10.5 for major, there were no magazine restrictions.
3) pistol, had to be a 5" or shorter barrel. had to make 180 power factor to be considered major and 140mm mags were ok.
Per Stlhead in another thread specific to the limited division -
no chg to pistol
Shotgun max capacity of 8 + 1
Long tubes are fine as long as they are plugged
Rifle mag restriction to 30
Coupled mags, cinched mags, star mags, are fine as long as only 30 before the assembly must be removed, manipulated, and reinserted.
SoF rules would have my only choice to be shoot in Trooper class, barrels on shotgun and pistol are too long. So say hello to breaking the giant backpack out of storage.
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Limited/TacOps with 30 round rifle and 8+1 max in the shotgun? Limited/Mod TacOps has Irons only limited guns and 1x sights/Scopes shooting in Mod TacOps?
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I'm still gonna go with limited isn't broke so let's not screw it up. For the sake of discussion if I had to do something here it is:
Pistol- As it is currently.
Rifle- 1x or irons, only one sight plane on rifle, double stack magazines only
Shotgun- 8+1 start, full capacity ok after buzzer. Mag tube maximum 1" past end of barrel.
Is it a lot different than now? Not really. Would 28" barreled shotguns suddenly rule limited? No. Be a bit different. Gamers would still go with long shotguns and long rifle mags. But both have a limit to how far they can go and still work well. It's still a game and for me would be a blast. I just don't want limited to be the "reloading" division. An important skill yes, not why I shoot 3 gun.
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If you're going to limit rifle and shotgun capacities then why NOT limit pistol capacity too?
Because its already limited to a 141mm mag size.
Which is longer than any stock pistol mag I know of. So why not allow "extra capacity" in the other two guns as well? For example 35-48 round rifle magazines and 9-12 round shotgun tubes?
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Then go play elsewhere because your pistol is already limited. You are allowed to have a magazine that is 140 mm long, that is a limit. The same limit is applied in scope tac. Want to play in a division without limits there is one for you. It's open. I am not advocating any changes to the pistol AT ALL, and only discussing changing the capacity of the shotgun AFTER the buzzer goes off, the rifle I am advocating we only have 30ish rounds in. USPSA pistol rules and any talk of production are not even on my radar. Feel free to fill that Glock up and blast away, you could even get some base pads and bump up your capacity, more power to you.
But I like playing in the kiddie pool that is limited now. I enjoy shooting with real irons or my 1x sight. I like my 40 round rifle mags and 9 round shotgun tube loaded to 8. Someday I will have my evil 140mm magazines and will forget how to reload on the clock completely.
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How many shooters do you know that jump back between TACIRONS and TACOPS? And do they use the same guns?
I do all the time. Same guns, same gear, but I have an extra rifle with an 1-6x optic for the other division in case I want to shoot Optics.
I think these changes would be totally OK and widely accepted as long as you can use the same gear and shoot with reduced capacity.
30rds in a rifle magazine no matter the length
15rds in a pistol magazine no matter the length
8+1rds in a shotgun no matter the length
Plug it if you want to, or use longer mags if you want to, but download them appropriately
USPSA trusts Production shooters to download their guns and it works fine, we can do the same, and if you mess up ===> welcome to Open
The having looked at the rule book for USPSA and the silly rules like downloading magazines for production class is a big reason I shoot 3 gun. I own a pistol that completely stock holds 19, a Glock holds 17. In the end the 2 rounds only matter as long as there is a course of fire 19 rounds or shorter and I don't miss (not going to happen at the moment). Read the rules and make your selections for yourself on which gear you think will serve you best. Trying to make rules for the lowest mag capacity and artificially limiting a division just to say it is significantly different from a larger division doesn't seem to accomplish anything to me. I will in time get a second upper and will set up with a scope so that I can go play around with the big boys. Being able to use the same gear and a different optic is going to be a big plus. Limiting round capacity in my preferred division would just annoy me into not shooting limited at all.
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But we sure do buy into the marketing hype that we "need" all this extra stuff...except TyinTx.
O no, I "need" the extra stuff.
I have plans for my next shotgun, mods to the pistol, different shell caddies, and I am on the second rifle, part of which came from Carbon Arms. Just putting the wife through college for her masters turns the 3 gun fund into a small ammo budget only.My stated intent was not to grow the division, I think it will grow or die all on it's own. My purpose was to make it a different, and at the same time introduce additional entertaining challenges. Everyone has 30ish round mags, the idea is not to stop 31 in a Pmag, its to keep guys from running 40 or 60, and everyone can plug their tube to 8, no equipment race issues. I have no opinion on the irons and non magnified optic combo, that seems like a match directors decision rule to me. I do not believe we should change the definition of a limited pistol or require the use of a pump gun, the idea is not a fundamental equipment change to the division, just a refinement of the existing rules to limit the capacity of the rifle and pistol, just like we do the pistol.
Limiting the shotgun tube capacity to 8 is not an attempt to restrict the loading style, or even to force people to to use sleek looking shorter tubes, or even for some sort of nostalgia, the idea is to bring the shotgun into the accepted definition of "Limited" iron sights, no comps or ports, and a limited amount of ammo. I feel strongly that this small change will introduce a great deal of difference between limited and scope tac, and will enhance the game. Let stage designers build shotgun stages in 10 round arrays, and let the scope tac guys load 10, the open guys are going to load 20. Good stages are not designed with one division in mind, they are designed to present creative shooting problems to be solved with the tools that you have. I am just advocating defining the tools a bit better to add spice to the challenge.
I just don't see making reloads the deciding factor between divisions as all that meaningful. It would make stage planning different sure. But so does having the option between a 40 round and 30 round. Use a 40 and shoot prone of the stairs they had some stages at Raton and you will suddenly find yourself wishing that you had a 30. Limited I can see a requirement that all rifle mags must be double stack only. Using a lower capacity on any of the guns then what can be had stock would push somebody like me from limited to scope tac if they are still able to use stock capacity.
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As you can see, I'm all for it in Limited iron/1x division, as you mention there’s only one thing that separates limited from tactical is just the sights. But would it bring more to attendance to the division? I'd say yes on the belief that if you make the restriction to the point where you do not need to buy "extra" gear to compete in. IE Shotgun magazine tubes. Since FN SLP, Beretta, JM Mossberg, and Versa Max tactical, already come in a 8+1 configuration why should I Spend the extra money to increase my capacity $30 extra per round? 30rnd magazines are all over the place, so why should I pay an extra 40 dollars on a base pad that will only give me a 4 round advantage and an extra inch of lift on my prone shooting?
That is exactly the kind of thinking that went into my "split Tac Ops into Super Modified and Modified" concept. Except for the "Modified" division I also added a 4X upper limit on the rifle scope, and 17rd mag limit on the pistol. This would make two very disparate equipment sets, and dramatically decrease the cost of equipment parity in the Mod division. (Good 1-4X scopes can be found way cheaper than 1-6 or 1-8X, and it's easy to have a couple hundred bucks in magazine basepads and shotgun tube accessories to get extra rounds).
Again I am a new shooter to 3 gun or any competetive shooting. I didn't own a AR or any semi auto rifle. So I bought one. Same goes for the pistol. Looked at my shotgun and put a Nordic tube on my hunting shotgun that I already had. The tube was $60 and I went with a +5 and considered a +6. Could have been happy with either. Rifle mags a 30 round Pmag is $12-15 and a 40 round is $18. I don't see an equipment race keeping people out of the division. I see it as the average shooter now thinks you need 4x magnification to hit a 100 yard target. Guys who want to shoot limited will and guys who want to shoot tac scope will shoot that. I run a stock XDm and a Nova pump. I feel at no disadvantage on my equipment compared to other limited shooters. The thing that currently holds me back are my skills, most of all my pistol.
Just to be clear-
1. Lets leave max mag capacity alone for all 3 guns. No reason to have limited be a reloading contest.
2. Pumps are fun for me. Lets not require it though.
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I started shooting 3 gun this summer and shoot limited division by choice. I looked at the rules for any match I could find and went and bought a pistol, rifle, and a long tube for my shotgun to be able to compete. I thought about running scope tac but to me the challenge is a lot of fun when it comes to shooting non magnified at 400+.
My shotgun is 9+1 because the mag tube ends up flush with my Nova's barrel. I'm normally restricted to 8+1 at the start, why limit my capacity when I reload just to make a bigger jump to scope tac?
I have 30 and 40 round rifle mags. Some stages one has an advantage. Both are easy to find and relatively cheap. Why limit my choices for how I run a stage and force me to possibly make a reload again just to make the difference on my rifle sight a little bigger. Coupled mags I don't currently run so I have not input on that.
Really want to change limited and scope tac require limited to shoot pump shotguns. Then I won't have to keep eyeing all those fancy autoloaders.
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With those targets and ranges I'd just remove the can and shoot with the eotech. I shoot limited irons with a red dot and I am considering one of the new prismatic 1x sights. Last weekend shot a match with 12" targets out to 300 and a 16" at 400. Went really well and got my hits until stage with targets in the shade. Couldn't see them even with backers but neither could most of the guys with scopes.
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I use the Nova with a Limbsaver pad on it. Works really slick for loading with the gate staying up in between shells. My sxp I was going to use but it had 2 bumps in the factory mag tube that catch a plug and keep the spring captured. You could file them off I'm sure and add an extension I just didn't want to mess with it.
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Planning on upgrading to one of the MOA Stoegers this winter. Having a reversible charging handle would be nice. Never owned a semi so I would like to play with both sides but left side option seems to make sense for 3 gun.
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I've got the Nordic barrel with the Carbon arms gas block. With the smaller gas port diameter supposed to be able to run low mass no problem. My buffer now is filled with delrin spacers. Only way I can get it lighter and keep some weights is switch to a carbine buffer with weights replaced and spacer in the extension.
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I see you found the coupon. I will eventually get a low mass bcg just trying to decide if I want to move it up the upgrade list.
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Rainier arms is having a Labor Day sale.
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My rifle is built around a 18" Nordic barrel. Currently I am running 11.5 oz bcg with 2.8 oz rifle length buffer. Option 1. Switch the bcg for a Voodoo low mass bcg as there is a good sale. Would take reciproting mass from 14.3 oz to 12.3 oz. Option 2. Empty the buffer of remaining weights for total mass of 13 oz. Option 1 gain increase in bearing surface and the dead blow affect of the buffer weights. Option 2 pick up $170 of practice ammo. Is total reciprocating mass more important than which component the mass is in(buffer or bolt carrier)?
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I had a Stag Arms 3G upper and was very pleased with it. Rifle always felt a little front heavy though. I sold it and got an upper from Carbon Arms with the Nordic barrel. I prefer the new upper and couldn't be happier with the switch, recoil impulse is much flatter. Either one would be a good choice and can come in under the $800 with bcg and charging handle ready to pin on your lower.
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I can second the Chameleon belt. Found a lightly used one about half price. Then I found out it's not made for 30" waist guys. Sheet of kydex, 2 Tek-loks I now have 2 6 rd belt mounted carriers, and a 12 rd belt I loan out at matches.
I have plans for my next shotgun, mods to the pistol, different shell caddies, and I am on the second rifle, part of which came from Carbon Arms. Just putting the wife through college for her masters turns the 3 gun fund into a small ammo budget only.
Shortening Benelli Nova Stock
in Shotgun - Technical
Posted
I ran my Benelli Nova for the first year of 3 gun because it was what I had. Learned and lot and still have much more to learn. I got completely addicted and had planned on upgrading to a semi auto over the winter. Looks like it will be middle of the summer or next fall before I'm ready to go ahead and buy the new shotgun though. I'm now sitting here with several months until any matches and thinking I want to shorten the stock on my Nova. Length of pull has always been a long and I want to shorten it up 1 inch. My plan is to cut and sand a wood block down until it fits snugly into the hollow stock and then epoxy it into place so I have something to attach the butt pad to. First question is does anyone have a good way to hold the stock while on the chop saw to make sure it does not move? On the Nova the stock is part of the receiver so this is a measure 3 times, think about it some, and cut once type of operation. Second question is what would be a good epoxy to use that will bond to the wood and the material of the stock?