goodmanac
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Posts posted by goodmanac
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Machinist went AWOL.
Honestly I'm at a loss on what to do about this. I've spent a lot of time calling, emailing and looking for machinist that can make this and at a price point were I can actually sell them. Most either want $90 + per unit to make them, or straight out flake out on communication.
If anyone has some suggestions, please let me know.
Sorry to hear that :/
Have you tried calling CNC Machine Shop in Houston? http://www.rmcreliablemachinists.com/index.php
They seem like they could do it.
I haven't called that specific shop yet.
Issue is doing a run of 20-30 keeps the unit cost really high, and to be honest I just don't have the money to front up for that many.
I'll shop around a bit this weekend and send out some emails.
I'm sure if they give you a concrete deal (with some email evidence) most of us here would not have a problem with fronting you the money as long as the product got to us.
I was always planning on doing a little bit of a presale, mainly because the machinist I was working with promised a 1 week turn around on 20 units once the revisions were set and the testing was done. Thing is...I want to be 100% sure that whoever I go with can get me that kind of turn around since I stake my name on anything I sell.
I know I have zero reputation here, which makes it a bit hesitant ( I know I would be ). Just sent an email to the guy I was working with, telling him to get back to me ASAP or I will be finding someone else to do this.
Alright well I hope he gets back to you soon, otherwise hopefully someone else can complete the job.
Still looking forward to getting one of them someday! I freaking hate the stock one haha.
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Machinist went AWOL.
Honestly I'm at a loss on what to do about this. I've spent a lot of time calling, emailing and looking for machinist that can make this and at a price point were I can actually sell them. Most either want $90 + per unit to make them, or straight out flake out on communication.
If anyone has some suggestions, please let me know.
Sorry to hear that :/
Have you tried calling CNC Machine Shop in Houston? http://www.rmcreliablemachinists.com/index.php
They seem like they could do it.
I haven't called that specific shop yet.
Issue is doing a run of 20-30 keeps the unit cost really high, and to be honest I just don't have the money to front up for that many.
I'll shop around a bit this weekend and send out some emails.
I'm sure if they give you a concrete deal (with some email evidence) most of us here would not have a problem with fronting you the money as long as the product got to us.
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Machinist went AWOL.
Honestly I'm at a loss on what to do about this. I've spent a lot of time calling, emailing and looking for machinist that can make this and at a price point were I can actually sell them. Most either want $90 + per unit to make them, or straight out flake out on communication.
If anyone has some suggestions, please let me know.
Sorry to hear that :/
Have you tried calling CNC Machine Shop in Houston? http://www.rmcreliablemachinists.com/index.php
They seem like they could do it.
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Any good news Z?
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Alright so I finally took out the PGO CZ 712. I only shot low recoil loads (1200fps), 00 Buckshot and Slugs.
Easily controllable, point-able, and not hard on the wrist. I found that holding it up an out and point-shooting was the easiest, so no hip firing.
Afterword, the grip seemed slightly loose so I took it all apart and found I needed to file a bit of metal where the mount meets the receiver. Now it sits flush and is screwed on there nice and tight this time.
After beveling the mag tube I thought it would be fine, but the follower did get snagged once. So I went to beveling some more and polishing some more, which seemed to work for a bit. Then sure enough I got another snag while cycling shells through.
So I took out the Nordic follower and put back in the stock one. Solved my snagging issue. I'm sure this is because the O.D. of the Nordic follower seems to be larger then the stock follower, plus they are designed very differently.
So thus far, the CZ piston and the Nordic follower have not worked for me. The stock parts function better. At least in my case (2013 model).
Picture of the range trip!
How is that machinist doing Z?
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Just a side note... I have the ati als on mine and after a few matches the check weld started to peel a bit, it has a thin rubber set on it. I called ati and had a new one within a week plus some extra stuff No charge! Excellent customer service and they seem to stand by their product.
That's awesome! They were always really nice on the phone when I needed to talk to them.
Also I took that advice and beveled the mag tube so it has cycled everything through it without hiccups so far.
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I recently got and installed the ALS (Adjustable Length Stock) that CZ offers on one of their other models. My son is of small stature and shoots this gun and was hoping to have a shorter length of pull. The ALS is made by ATI as I recall and seems to be well made. Even at the longest LOP setting, it is still shorter than the factory stock as provided on the 712 Utility. He likes it much better with the shorter LOP option and I am fine with it set at the longest LOP.
Could we get a picture of it at it's longest and shortest settings on the 712U?
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Nice! Let us know if your able to grind it out.
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Haha no, sorry I didn't clarify. I wanted to do something a little bit different with this CZ.
I don't think it will be hard on the wrist as long as I use my low recoil loads.
I'll probably end up with an Akita stock eventually.
I seem to have a thing for short firearms at the moment.
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I got it all assembled yesterday no problems, it required a few tools but nothing crazy.
The grip feels great, back is cushy and the front is sort of like a grip tape texture. You can tell they put some thought into this grip.
I have not shot it yet, I'll have to go next week sometime.
Here she is now. (Hold on the picture won't upload) (Ok got it)
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Yes, I did order the tube clamp. Does the NC follower fit the CZ tube?
Yes it fits just fine! Looks nice too.
Let us know how that clamp fits, there seems to be a fitment issue.
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Just bought a CZ712U. LGS here in NC had it for $409. After reading this forum and talking to others, I think this will be a great gun.Ordered the Nordic Components +3 Ext, and the Hi-Viz sights. Can't wait to get it out to the range.
I would be in for zfields Bolt handle ext. also.
Nice price! I'm pretty sure you'll like it a lot. Did you order their tube clamp too?
Oh and just in case anyone was wondering, ATI finally shipped my pistol grip after a month and a half. Should be here this week, will post pictures.
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Just take my money already zfields!
Haha for real, burning holes in my wallet here
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Changes sent over to the machinist.
Exciting! I'm still waiting on ATI for my stock, so that paired with your bolt handles is going to look great.
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ID of the top is 25mm (0.98 in).
ID of the bottom (couldn't get in between interior lips due to lame calipers) is 25mm (0.98 in).
OD of the top edge/ top lip is 26.6mm (1.05 in).
OD of the area with the O-rings is 30.2mm (1.19 in).
OD of the bottom edge/bottom lip is 31.8mm (1.25 in).
So, it appears the pistons are slightly different, if we are measuring the same dimensions that it. I would be interested to see what your OD is for the o-ring area, since that's the one that determines if the piston sits tight or loose.
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Admittedly this is pretty unscientific, but it's the tools I had available. Scale and calipers (I think bore gauge is correct tool for this?). I averaged the caliper readings as I took readings at multiple places in an attempt to get some semblance of accuracy.
O.D. of my mag tube 1.004"
Old piston
1.51oz
1.005 ID at the bottom of the piston "lip"
1.024 ID where it opens up after the bottom lip
New piston
1.55oz
1.005 ID at the bottom of the piston "lip"
1.027 ID where it opens up after the bottom lip
So the new piston is 3 thousandths bigger. Honestly I find it slides more smoothly with less resistance on the mag tube. There is no slop for the fit up for mine.
The other pictures I've included are regarding trying to diagnose my fail to eject/short stroking issue.
When I pulled the gun apart the piston was sitting cocked. It appears it was not fully seating against the o-ring.
The other picture shows the build up of junk where the piston should be fully seated. My best guess is that not getting a good seal, gas was blowing out of this area instead of pushing against the piston, and this was causing my issue.
Since my o-ring is beat, and I have yet to be able to get the correct one from CZ (3 attempts), I'm on a mission to try and source replacements and replace each time I clean cleaned whether needed or not. Seems like cheap insurance.
If anyone knows what o-ring material I should be looking at (viton, buna, etc.) please let me know.
Well I just looked at my CZ piston and they do look very similar, so I'll take the exact
Measurements tomorrow. I have a feeling they'll be the same. I wonder if your piston seat is a different size then mine.
And I think you may be right, that puppy is dirty! A good cleaning should fix a few things.
I can also tell you right now that our internals are different. My spring is black and must be coated with something. My O-ring is internal and seated within the barrel ring where the piston sits. The bolt carrier rail that compresses the spring on the tube is also different; mine is black and may be a different material.
With all of these differences I suspect our original pistons may also be of different design.
Here is a picture of my two pistons:
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I ran a small local match match yesterday.
93 rounds Federal Field and Target (Walmart bulk pack), 3 DRAM, 1 1/8oz shot, #7.5, 1200fps
10 rounds Fiocchi LE slug, 7/8oz, low recoil, 1300fps
2 rounds Fiocchi LE 00 Buckshot, 9 pellets, 1150 fps
I had issues with 6 - 10 rounds of birdshot short stroking. The round would get out of the chamber okay, but hang up on ejection (basically stovepipe). So that kinda sucked. I haven't pulled the gun apart yet but I have a few hypothesis.
- I had to reuse the o-ring since CZ sent me was the wrong one with the piston. I think there may be a gas leak as my o-ring is pretty trashed.
- Not running the gun wet enough. I used minimal lube when I re-assembled with new piston.
- Perhaps the piston needs additional break in
We'll see when I take it apart what I can determine. And I'll also measure out some parts.
Sounds similar to my issues but mine would eject the spent hull fine and then it wouldn't fully load the next shell. So I would either have to push the bolt forward, or eject it and start over if it seemed stuck. Never had any ejection issues, just a lot of FTF's.
Thanks for the update!
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Have you gotten to test your new piston 805ebr? With 1200 FPS 2 3/4 loads specifically.
I did!
I tested with 100 rounds today.
50 rounds Federal Target Load 2 3/4 DRAM, 1 1/8oz shot, #8 1145 fps
25 rounds Remington Gun Club Loads 1 1/8 oz shot, #7.5 1200 fps
10 rounds Fiocchi LE slug, 7/8oz, low recoil, 1300fps
10 rounds Fiocchi LE 00 Buckshot, 9 pellets, 1150 fps
5 rounds Federal 00 Buckshot, Flight Control, reduced recoil, no additional info
The only issue I had was one Fiocchi buckshot round that failed to fully extract from the chamber. Other than that it ran just awesome.
There is a small local match this weekend where I will run approx the same round count. I am not going to clean it prior to the match, and will let you know if there are any issues. Hope this info helps.
When I do break it down to clean it after this weekend, I plan to take the calipers to the magazine tube and piston. Maybe contributing this info will help determine why your piston is so loose?
Thank you! That would be great, I'll have to measure mine. If it does have a smaller diameter I will be sending it back to CZ-USA and request a replacement of equal dimensions.
Thanks for the update Z!
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Have you gotten to test your new piston 805ebr? With 1200 FPS 2 3/4 loads specifically.
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I got the replacement piston in the mail today. It appears to be billet but is not stamped as such. It is engraved with CZ-USA. I'm eager to test it out. It appears to fit tightly, so hopefully it'll work fine.
The o-ring they sent me is way too big. I've yet to get the correct one from them. Either they don't ship, or send one that is way too big. Lol.
How curious, mine fits so damn loose, I wonder if I can just ship it back for a new one. Or I'll just run the original since it ain't broke, and I can run that until it gives up haha.
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Any good news on those bolt handles Zfields?
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The new one we got several months ago is redesigned. He broke 2 of the original pistons before getting this one under warranty. It even says billet on it. Old one was a cheap lightweight steel, always had trouble cycling low weight and low power loads, new one is heavy duty with very good rings and fits tight. Not sure which one you have, but we have run every kind one load from cheapie Wally world Federal and Winchester to Remington club loads thru his and they all work. His gun would never cycle the low power stuff and low weight loads consistently especially Fiocchi 7/8oz. reduced recoil slugs and they all work now. Gun has run 100% since the new billet piston.
gerritm
Did yall get the factory redesign or the CZ-USA design(it's stamped 'CZ-USA')?
My 712 is a 2013 I believe, based on what the guys at CZ were telling me, the 2013's have a factory redesigned gas piston(the one the factory does in Turkey). The new gens can cycle low recoil loads now it seems and I think the stock piston is stronger than the older gens too.
The guy I spoke with on the phone said if it works just run with it, I'll keep the CZ-USA one as a backup for now since it doesn't fit tight or cycle the same low recoil loads.
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Call CZ CS and they will replace it. Tell them you want the new billet type piston and this should solve all your problems. They replaced my son's in about 3 days and the gun has run perfect ever since.
gerritm
I bought theirs and it didn't perform as well as the original, like at all.
I have since then swapped out the CZ-USA one out for the original. The original piston cycles everything I put through it flawlessly. The CZ one turned my semi-auto shotgun into a bolt gun. Practically every other shot I had a FTF. I called them about it and they didn't seem to care to look into it, maybe I will call again. Their response was basically, "don't shoot light loads through it". Rounds going 1200fps cycle perfectly through these 712's, so for them to tell me their piston was fine kind of threw me off...
The CZ piston is smaller and fits pretty loose compared to the stock piston, which is why it won't cycle lighter loads properly.
Hopefully my stock piston holds up long enough for them to redesign theirs, which I hope they do.
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used my 712 today for first time in a 3gun..ran into alot of problems..first of all , the finger pull on the bolt slide is sharp as hell as it cut the crap out of my fingers(factory pull lever) and alot of FTF (failure to feed) ..
after the match on of the shooters in my squad is a gunsmith and had him look at it..found the sprint in my tube ext. was hanging up at the transition at new tube thread area and he also suggested running around 2-300 rnds through it before next shoot and to keep the action spring and bolt areas wet (lubed) until its running smoother
Wondering if you need to trim down the threads so the tubes will match up closer. Supposdly the older 712's had a "lip" where the stock tube ended.
will be taking it apart again tomorrow and doing some dremel work to "polish" the transition out some..will see how that works
Based on all that I think you may have one of the older models. My new one had short threads and no lip. So no dremeling and no cutting down on the tube.
The older models had a different recoil spring too, along with quite a few other differences. If you take some detailed pictures I can let you know what I have different.
Pretty sure CZ-USA would be happy to help you out if you needed the new Gen part replacements.
Just a update, got the samples. Doing some revisions and beefing up a section of it, and tightening up some of the measurements to make it fit a bit tighter in the bolt.
Sounds good! I'm looking forward to how much easier disassembly is going to be with these new bolts, the stock one is too damn small to get a good pull on it when I'm breaking it all down.
CZ-USA Model 712 Utility
in Shotgun - Technical
Posted · Edited by goodmanac
Welcome!
1. The clamp, I have found is not really needed for the +3 round tube, plus it doesn't even clamp properly (from Nordic).
2. I have not seen a retrofitted picatinny rail, the closest thing I've got to that is this, but for a laser: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004D9S19G/ref=oh_details_o05_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
3. I have seen no side-saddles.
4. The new 2013 models do not need a different spring to cycle light loads.
Hope that helps!