GunBugBit
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Posts posted by GunBugBit
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Thanks Charlie! I’ll give that disconnector a try.
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I’ve thought it could be disconnector-related, Charlie. When the trigger is held back long enough, the disconnector is stabilized - pressed back so it stays under the sear feet. So this could be why I don’t see the problem during slow fire. The problem arises when the trigger is released quickly, and just once every hundred rounds or so because maybe a particular timing window is caught by the release, and pressure coming off of the disconnector contributes somehow to the sear nose coming off the full cock hooks. The Harrison parts are new so this isn’t a wear thing. Maybe this Prodigy’s sear and hammer holes are not an ideal distance apart, even though they are apparently parallel and square enough to facilitate a creep-free trigger.
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On 1/26/2024 at 10:20 AM, HOGRIDER said:
I'm still curious if you ever checked that the pistol had sufficient PRE-TRAVEL? Did you also check for hammer bounce as I posted above?
IMO, if your using John's hammer sear combo it doesn't get any better. However that is subject to change is your sear and hammer pin holes are not perfectly aligned. Of course, bluing the sear nose should have already verified that.....
Yes it has sufficient pretravel. About 0.01” more than some of my other 1911s/2011s that do not have this issue.
Hammer bounce - hmmm, try a heavier mainspring, you’re thinking? I don’t see where you mention hammer bounce, but someone else mentioned TRIGGER bounce.
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Once I never see the issue again, I’ll stop thinking about it. Maybe the conversation here will help others with a similar issue understand what could be causing it.
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Related possibly to releasing the trigger at some precise instant, making it more likely the sear nose will slip past the full cock hooks if sear spring tension and/or sear-hammer mating are not right?
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5 minutes ago, shred said:
If that were true, why would the split time matter?
The split times are incidental information. I just know that the issue manifested in the midst of fast doubles. The split times came from the many times the gun was functioning perfectly. Again, the half cock situation happened only once per 100+ round range session.
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On 1/19/2024 at 8:41 AM, sfinney said:
Does sound like trigger bounce.
Could be sear spring tension, as stated above.... or poor sear/hammer interface (no matter how nice a brand each are, were the fit to each other properly?). Or both.
I agree. Brand name doesn’t mean anything. To check sear-hammer mating, I used magnification to inspect and I marked up the sear nose and hammer hooks and dry fired, and saw even rub-off of the marker.
I passed on the Harrison sear because there was a weird feel when I first installed it. However, now that I’ve checked its match with the Harrison hammer, I see that it is very good, so I reinstalled it. This sear was stoned by Harrison with the newer generation True Radius jig. There is more primary sear surface than with the EGW.
I tuned the disco and sear leaf spring legs to a 4# pull, which probably won’t be the final setting. I’ll test fire soon.
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The 0.13 splits, and all the other split
times, were NOT aiming the second shot, but using grip control and familiarity with the gun’s recoil impulse to make a second A zone hit at 7 yards very likely, which it was. I believe this is called “predictive” shooting. I do also watch what’s happening so tactile input is working with visual input. Beyond 7 yards, yes, I see what I need to see and each shot is aimed - quickly, of course.
I think I counted 15 C zone hits out of the 173 rounds I shot. I think there are many B and C shooters, and definitely higher-classed shooters, who can easily meet or beat this. Anyway, I was in more of a function check mindset at the time.
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I measured pull weight again and was getting readings as low as 2 lb 4 oz (2.25#). The lower readings are probably more accurate since heavier readings reflect over-pull pressure.
Anyway, that’s pretty light. So another 10oz of tension on the sear leg will probably do it.
The theory that makes the most sense to me is: the slide slamming home is bumping the sear nose off of the full cock hooks. The issue manifested exactly once in four consecutive shooting sessions. I would think it would happen more often, but if the sear leg’s tension is right on the line of not being adequate, the malfunction will occasionally happen.
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Thanks, guys, for answering!
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I agree that additional tension on the sear leg of the leaf spring might remedy this. I didn’t want to think the sear could occasionally slip off of the full cock hooks, but that might be what’s happening. The pull weight is currently 2.5#. I’ll go up to 3.0# and see if the issue still shows up. Might be a while since I’m out of 9mm bullets and I have plenty of .40 that I want to use with another gun for matches.
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3 hours ago, Racinready300ex said:
I assume you checked the contact between the sear and the hammer? Good even contact on both sides?
As I said above: “The sear is a short pre-stoned EGW and the hammer is from Harrison design. I haven’t touched either one. They are a good match - there is no creep.”
I checked the contact, too. Very even.
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I have an issue with my Prodigy that shows up only every 100 to 150 rounds. It has happened exactly once in each of my last four range sessions in a row.
Before today’s range trip, I had increased the over-travel adjustment by about 2/100”, since I thought this could be a cause.
My first 140 rounds were all good. I was shooting doubles with splits in the 0.13 to 0.18 range. The 0.13 splits were rare but I had a few and was happy about that.
Somewhere between round 140 and 150, the hammer fell to half cock between trigger presses on what would have been a fast double. I cocked the hammer all the way back and was able to continue, with no further occurrences for the rest of the 173 rounds I had with me.
If this happened every time I executed a fast double, it would be easier to figure out the cause. But only once per range session makes it harder to diagnose.
This does not happen in slower shooting.
At the moment I have two candidates for a cause.
First candidate is: it’s me. Maybe every so often I don’t keep the trigger pressed back through the full slide cycle, or I don’t even press the trigger all the way back at all before I release it. However, I never get this with any of my other guns with a 1911 ignition system.
Second candidate: maybe the disconnector is rubbing on the magazine, but I doubt it since I think the Harrison Design disconnector is shaped such that this is avoided. Or maybe the disconnector is being impeded some other way.
The sear is a short pre-stoned EGW and the hammer is from Harrison design. I haven’t touched either one. They are a good match - there is no creep.
Other than this one intermittent malfunction, the gun works great. There has never been a failure in feeding, extraction or ejection.
Anyone else have the same issue on any 1911/2011-type gun? Happening this infrequently?
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A trillion dollars used to be a lot of money.
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On 1/8/2024 at 9:48 AM, shred said:
Based on Girsan 2311 experience (I suspect the same factory makes both based on the pictures), magwells will be easier to fit than the Prodigy, but the trigger will be much worse. It'll also be a bushing barrel instead of bull. What optic plate they cut the slide for could be important.
EGW makes a magwell for the Prodigy that needs no fitting.
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14 hours ago, Haywizzle said:
I did the brass test and found my extractors were weak. I ended up buying a couple tools from https://www.jackweigand.com/index.html His Extractor Tension Gauge Set paired with my Lyman digital trigger pull gauge gave me good data when testing my extractors. I found both extractors at less than half tension of what was expected. I also picked up his Extractor Adjusting Tool. These tools got both slides running 100%. If you run into any problems I highly recommend the tension gauge.
In the process of root-causing my issue, I also tuned my extractors. One gun had significantly less tension than the other so I made them the same such that they pass the Hilton Yam test. It was worthwhile to do that.
I learned about the differences between .45 and 9mm extractors in 1911s. I also gained a new appreciation for the quality of the Dan Wesson 1911s. I knew they were good already but now I’m tickled by the rock solid reliability after just minor adjustments, and their great shootability. The absolute-zero creep of the triggers is a testament to the job DW did in mating the sears and hammers, which I never touched.
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In general I’d say $4,000 is plenty to end up with a solid, reliable, shootable 2011-type gun, including optic. The exact gun a person picks would be driven by how much work they feel like doing, and whether the gun has the features they prefer. A steel or aluminum grip module will drive the price up but I think the price point can still be met.
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On 6/6/2023 at 9:10 AM, RJH said:
Here's my rundown on Duramags for The prodigy so far. I have two 26s, three 20s, and one 17. Locally I can get them all for about 40 bucks apiece.
The Duramags have been solid for me so far.
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I have to think the slide moves a tiny bit at the moment of ignition. The movement might not be easily visible until sometime later though. Cameras might not tell the whole story. Maybe movement sensors would be needed. Haven’t thought about it or investigated it much.
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I’m not an elite shooter but can appreciate a fine higher priced gun and can enjoy shooting it. I’m also happy with a lower priced gun that does all I need it to. A project gun is one of my favorite things. I don’t regard myself as a gunsmith and I appreciate those with advanced knowledge and skills the more I’ve learned, which still isn’t that much.
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Good to hear!
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No problem!
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Yeah, ‘flation.
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Even if the extra two rounds isn’t an advantage, it’s more fun. And shooting 130 PF loads out of an all-steel 1911 is a fine shooting experience.
Occasional Half Cock When Shooting Fast
in 1911-style Pistols
Posted
I think a possible issue with a Prodigy could be Cerakote in the frame’s disconnector hole, which would tend to slow the movement of the disconnector. As those of you who own Prodigys know, Springfield isn’t very surgical about their application of Cerakote on these guns.