SimonM

I've been shooting a Stock for a year now in production and it's an excellent pistol. I don't mind decocking it manually and for me the shape of the grip is little better. It may not seem much, but the beavertail is shaped differently than the ones on 92FS or Elite II and it makes the pistol point better and it's also a bit easier on the web of my hand. I used to shoot 1911-type pistols and I was accustomed to keep my right hand thumb on a safety lever, so the framemounted safety on the Stock feels very familiar. The checkering on the frame is also very good; I only needed to add skatetape on grip panels and not on the front-/backstrap. The bushing helps in accuracy department. Most other Berettas (I've had two 92FS pistols) don't have it and they shoot groups around 2"/25meters while the Stock will print about 1"/25 meters. That may not be something you must have in IPSC, but it doesn't hurt. If the Elite would be as cheap here in Europe compared to the Stock as it is in the US I'd buy one (or two) in a heartbeat

I've been contemplating on getting a STI Stinger or Trubore in 9mm. The pistol will be used (for the moment atleast) for training rather than competition. I compete in production and hope to improve by training with an open gun. The thing is that I'd like to use cheap factory ammo such as S&B or Magtech (pf around 130-135) and I'm wondering whether the Stinger would work with this kind of ammo since it has the recoilmaster in it? I have an Edge .40 with the recoilmaster and I have fed it some pretty light loads. I could get down to 4.6 grains of N320 loaded to about 1.200 length and get it to cycle. The Trubore should work since it wouldn't be a problem to change in a lighter spring, but I'm interested in the Stinger a little more. My production Beretta weigths about 36 ounces and the lighter and shorter Stinger would compare favourable to it. And I almost forgot. How does the comp work with the lighter loads? The Trubore 9mm owners could also share their experiences on this.

I thought about this and I've come up with a solution of some sort. I hope. While I intend to train mostly with the open gun (during the off-season) I'm going to keep shooting and dryfiring the Beretta also. And the iron sights aren't the only reason to do so since I want to keep in touch with that DA first shot. I'm hoping I don't get too confused. From what I've understood Steve Anderson for example shoots a Beretta in production and uses the Caspian for open, which is quite near the STI if we consider the ergonomics. I don't know how he trains though; only open, say for two months, and then only production for another period of time. One thing I noticed when I moved from my standard STI to shooting a Beretta was that I had to relearn my triggerfinger position. After the DA first shot my finger was in a position where I was pulling the trigger with the first joint and throwing my shots of to the side. I don't think that it will be that much on an issue any more and the transition between the guns will be rather painless since I've played with both for while now.

Thanks for the input guys! On of the reasons I'm interested in getting an open gun to train with in 2011 configuration is because I've been using them (STI Edge) in standard class earlier and liked them. There's not much experience about slidemounted optics such as the Docter over here, but I guess you have found it to be quite durable. David: It's very nice to hear comments from the Beretta expert! We had a discussion about your pistols in Equador; I'm the finnish shooter using the Stock model. It was great to meet you in person. Using another Beretta as a base for building a training pistol is an interesting option, but I'm not yet sure what I'm going to do. I'm not sure about the availability of slides etc. in Finland. The more I get comments about this the more it seems that I need some sort of a pistol with optics.

That's a great link! I remember reading it a while back. There seems to be people in favor of learning through shooting open and then there's guys who feel it's difficult to get back to using iron sights. I'm still wondering if it's beneficial to use so much money to get another pistol rather than using it on ammo.

Hello! This topic has been discussed here before, but here's my situation. I've been thinking about the idea of getting an open gun to train with during the "off-season". I've been shooting Berettas in production this year and plan on staying with it. However, I have some issues in my shooting which need to be addressed. I tend to be too tense while shooting and I don't always shift my focus on the next target as quickly as I'd suppose to. These are some of the things I'd like to get rid of and I think that using an open gun might help a little. Since the pistol would be easier to shoot with that might help my body to realize I don't have to fight the gun as I'm doing now most of the time. On rare occasions I get the sensation of floating the gun and I'm feeling smooth, but then it disappears... I've been shooting with a .22 equipped with a dot and it seemed a lot easier (of course) to hit the next target faster than with iron sights. I'm hoping the use of the dot would make me move my eyes to the next target rather than staying with the sights all the way through the transition. So basically where I'm getting at here is that I might be quicker and more relaxed shooter after training with an open gun. The pistol I'd be getting would be 2011 based so the grip angle wouldn't be all that different from the Beretta. The shape of the grip would be, but not the angle. Especially if one thinks about the differences between a Glock and a 1911 for example. I've read that after shooting with an open gun one should start getting to use their iron sighted pistol pistol early enough to get familiar iwth it before the match season. I'm thinking two months prior to the competitions might be okay, since I don't intend to neglect the Beretta alltogether during the off-season. Tell me what you think about my rationale. There must be lots of guys who have tried this. Simon

Even though I have shot pins only with my friends and haven't had a chance to attend to that kind of competition I have an idea for you. I'm assuming that you compete in practical shooting also, so the gun I'm thinking about would serve two purposes. I have an STI Edge .40 myself and I almost did this myself a while back. STI or SVI will most likely build you a pistol you can can use in limited class and in ipn shooting; a .40 with an additional 10mm barrel with comp. The frame should be drilled as you mentioned you intend to use a scope. Even if they don't deliver the whole package I' m sure you'll find a smith who fits a second barrel for your pistol. The same mags work for both calibers and the only thing you need to change, besides the barrel of course, is probably a heavier spring for that 10. Power isn't going to be problem and the pressure of the 10 is greater than with a .45 so the comp should work better also. I'm sure the .45 is a nice setup, but since there is some intelligent use for a great cartridge like full power 10mm people should jump on it .

I'm in need of a good raceholster for 92 STOCK. Since I'm shooting production under the IPSC rules (not USPSA) it can be a raceholster like people use in standard or open for example. There are a couple of holsters made for Beretta 92FS, that I know, but the STOCK has different width slide (Brigadier style) and the front of the triggerguard isn't similar to other models. Most of the competitionholsters lock the gun by it's triggerguard so it can be a problem. Safariland 007 isn't like that, but it's designed around the normal 92 slide. Maybe it can be molded with heat to fit the STOCK (or in this case an Elite II or Brigadier also). If someone has done this let me know. Other holstermakers, that I've found, that offer raceholsters for Beretta are Ghost, Sickinger, Vega and CR Speed. There are also a number of fast kydex holsters, but I don't have any experience of those. Tell me what works etc. Thank you for your time!

Tony, I'd love to get my hands on a true custom gun, but as I'm living in Finland it is pretty difficult. The only real option for me is to get a pistol from STI/SVI; they have importers here and so on. I think I'm going to get my open pistol in .38 super, because I train much more than go to matches. Around here there's only 5-6 matches a year due to our long winter and indoor ranges aren't very common. From what I've read the super is a proven performer; it feeds well from the longer magazines and it's easier to make major if I take a "risk" and get that Stinger. As far as I understand it shouldn't be that hard to major pf out of a short barreled pistol when using Vihtavuori powders and those are the ones we use (them being made in Finland). Bill, I've been training more and more during the last to years. Just the thing that fascinates me with the open is that I could learn something faster than I'd be able to do with iron sights. It'd make somethings possible while shooting a stage that would be very hard to do without the dot. Thank you for the replies!

Thanks for the opinions! I've been on the edge for a while with this open thing. For a few years there has been only one open shooter in our local club, but now there's going to be one or two more for the next season. I'd like to try it out, but I think that my main class will be limited after all. But going faster with the open might be too much fun to pass... As for the guns, I have plenty of experience with the recoilmaster systems; both of my limited STI pistols have them and they feel much better to me than regular springs. What I'd like to know is that how flat and soft is the (especially interested in this)Stinger or the Trubor as they come out of the factory without the holes in the barrel. Like I mentioned earlier there isn't a smith in our area I would trust to work on an expensive pistol.

Hello! I've been shooting limited for a few years and I've attended just about every competition I could find/go to. I've made steady progress during this time and especially the last two years, because I've trained more than before. One thing has caught my attention. It seems that all the top shooters around here shoot open and part of them sometimes compete in limited class too. I've talked to those who shoot both open and limited and they tend to say that shooting open helps to develop your skills as a shooter. The newly acquired skills may then be tranferred to limited as well, according to them. Some experts like Travis Tomasie and Matt B. agree with that as far as I've read. I'm very interested in trying out this idea. I have shot only about 300-400 rounds with a few different open pistols so I haven't got much experience with them. I shoot limited with an Edge and so I'm interested in either SVI or STI open pistols. Custom work is not an option since there isn't any decent gunsmiths who can trick them out in our country, as far as I know of. I have a couple of options in mind; an older but unfired SVI with hybricomp and a "multichamber" comp, STI Trubor or STI Stinger. I've had a chance to try out that SVI and it was pretty flat/soft (based on my limited experience with open guns) and I got handle the Stinger, which felt great, but haven't shot it. Haven't even seen the Trubor yet, but what I've gathered from the pictures is that it's pretty much a full sized blaster. So the questions are: - Will it help my development as a limited shooter if I practice with an open pistol? - Should I shy away from the shorties like the Stinger as I'm so unexperienced when it comes to open class pistols? I did like the feel of the little thing... - What about the other options I mentioned; is the hybricomp useless nowadays when the powerfactor is lower? I hope someone has enough energy to read through all of this... Thank you in advance!

Thanks for the comments! Sorry it took so long for me to reply, but my computer has been giving me the finger... Bucky, I shot a steelmatch this year with my Edge .40, with very light loads, and liked it, but I became interested in how fast a little lighter Eagle would be. The fixed sight - issue is appealing for me in a way that it's a bit different from my Edge. Even though I want a backup gun for competition, I'd rather not have an identical pistol to my current one. The Tactical is very close; only the finish, the rail and the sights aren't the same. The most important thing is that the pistol has the same grip, safeties etc as my Edge. One thing I'd like to know if anyone is using an Eagle with a recoilmaster. I'm very interested in how that kind of setup works. And I would think that an Eagle should be a legal backup in an IPSC match in case the primary pistol craps out. I'm not 100% sure, but pretty confident anyhow. Thanks again and please tell me more!

Hello! I've been thinking about getting another STI for limited class. I've been using an Edge (.40) model for the past season and have been guite happy with it. However, I'm considering getting another STI, but I'm not sure which one. I've decided that I'm not going to get the exact same model, even though the gun would serve as a "competition backup". So the ones I've been thinking are Eagle or Tactical (not the lite model) and the caliber would .40 also. I thought about 9mm because of the steelmatches, but since the pistol will be used for IPSC, the 9 doesn't cut it. For steelmatches I'd think that the Eagle would be probably be a little more suitable than the heavier Tactical. I shoot under IPSC rules, so the pistol must fit in the box. Otherwise I could have considered a 6" Eagle. Now here's the things I'd like you to help me with: I've been reading that some people have traded their heavy framed pistols, like the Edge, for a more lighter ones because they are quicker between targets. I haven't had the chance to try out shortframe STI, so how is it? And my Edge came with the recoilmaster and I like it. The Tactical also comes with that inside, but the Eagle doesn't. I could get that installed, as well as the magwell, for additional cost, but is it worth it? Another thing I'm concerned about is, that will I hurt myself by switching back and forth with pistols that are of different weight and have different kind of recoilsystems if I get the Eagle? BTW, do any of you use fixed sights on your limited guns? I'd like to equip my next pistol with a fixed rearsight and fiber optic frontsight. Any thoughts? Getting a gunsmith build me a pistol is out guestion as is SVI, because of the availability, so the STI is the one I'm looking for. I'm sure you have some experiencies with these models, so any comments are deeply appriciated. Thanks for your patience! Simon

Steve, Actually the Stcok model is a DA/SA gun. To shoot the first round in DA mode you'll have to lower the hammer with your thumb, just like if using a revo. I have handled a Combat model and also a Billenium. While I didn't care for the Combat, I sure LIKED the Billenium! I envy you for that... BTW, how much did it cost you? The price was the thing that kept me from getting one. Here in Finland they're asking about 2800 euros or so for it. The Stock is about 1250 euros. I know, I know, these prices got you guys feeling sick, but that's the way it is around here. The Stock is kind of like that Combat model with that shorter barrel, but with a DA/sa trigger. And the Stock doesn't have those hideously high adjustable sight, which is mounted on the Combat model. I'm kind of disappointed now, that I missed the opportunity to shoot that Combat; I guess that would have given me some idea how the stock would handle. The only major difference between the two guns would probably be trigger. Since it's a single action only- trigger in a Combat and it's porbably more like the 92FS Beretta in the Stock. I'm kind of worried how's the reset in DA/SA models in SA mode, meaning how easy/difficult it is to shoot fast splits compared to using a 1911 for example. I've read that the speedpumb (or what's it called) helps, but that modification isn't allowed in production. While you guys don't usually have access to the Stock 92, we here in Europe (as far as I know) can't get our hands on Elite or Elite II. I guess a Brigadier model with a proper set of springs and some skatetape would get me pretty close to those models. Simon

I just noticed, that i must've had my letters mixed up... Sorry for the poor english.

Steve, Just curious, what gun/guns do you use for production? I'm thinking more and more that I might get a Beretta 9mm and start using it for production. I've been considering the Stock model; it's readily available here in Europe. From what I've gathered you have a tough time getting your hands on one in USA. What would say about this kind of plan: - The grip angle is a bit like my STI (only curved, of course) and the Stock could also be used as cocked and locked type of pistol, so it wouldn't mess up my shooting in limited. This Beretta could be used for practicing limited, shooting production matches and I could even use it in steel matches. There are a couple of things that worry me. First, I'm not sure how much difference there is in the reset STI vs. Beretta and second, the grip, however a bit more similar than Glock vs. STI, is still a different grip. Now that I mentioned the steel shooting, I might as well ask your opinion on that too. This year I shot in a steel match for the first time with my Edge .40 loaded with the most feeble ammo it fed reliably. I did ok, but it would be easier to use a 9mm; it would cycle faster and so on. I've been thinking that Beretta for that or a STI in 9mm. If I were to get a STI 9mm; I'm leaning towards the Eagle model. Is that a sensible choise considering that I shoot an Edge in limited? Please bear with me and give some feedback.

Great info, thanks! This is nice to get so many replies so quickly from people who know what they're talking about. I've been discussing about production guns with my fellow IPSC shooters here in our club, but since it's a new class around here people don't really have so much to tell. Actually, I think I'm the interested in the production more than anyone else in our club, even though I'm one of the more experienced members... I'll try how it goes with my G19 and then, depending how I feel about it, may consider getting something else. The only downside to getting a new gun around here, especially a production gun, is the fact that I may not get try out many different kinds before I make my decision. That's why it's good to hear what you guys have to say about different pistols. I have had a P220 .45 and two Beretta 92FS pistols, but that was a few years ago and I wasn't shooting IPSC at the time, so I don't really have a feeling how they'd do in competition. I shot them very rarely and therefore don't have much to say about them, except that those were well made, quality pieces. If someone still has experiences or ideas, please let me know. This is indeed a good place to get informations and opinions! I wish I'd posted here a long time ago.

Thanks for the replies! How do you take the new class; are there mostly beginners shooting? Are the guys that shoot limited or open interested in it? I know that at least Jarrett has been shooting in production, but that may have to do with the fact that he is trying out how the LDA-models can do. As for me, I like the idea of competing with less expensive equipment for a change and that the guns are "more practical" i.e. the type people carry on duty. It's nice to have variety. (I must confess that I shot a revolver match with a borrowed S&W 686 two months ago and I almost ended up buying a revo of my own...) I'd still like to know what kind options would you offer me if I were to get a production pistol, other than my G19. Preferably the kind of pistol that wouldn't mess up my shooting with the STI.

Hello! This is my first time posting here. I've been reading posts for a while and think you have so much knowledge about the gameguns etc., that this is the place to ask around. I've been asking similar questions on another forum, but I'd still like to know what people here think. I've been shooting limited for a couple of years now and I've ended up using a STI Edge .40 after trying and owning several different makes and models. Even though I fully intend to carry on shooting limited (may even get an open blaster some day), I'm very interested in trying out the production class. At the moment I own two 9mm's; G26 and g19 and the latter is the one I'm going to use while competing in a match this summer. Though I like Glocks I'd like to get something that more closely resembles my STI atleast as far as the grip angle is concerned. The weight differences of a Glock and an Edge are rather big also. The two guns I've been thinking about are Beretta 92FS and SIG P226. The SIG could be had with a steelframe, but from what I remember it sits a little higher in the hand than the Beretta. Durability of the two guns is also a bit of a concern and I'd also like to know whether there's any difference in the trigger reset. That's one thing I like about a Glock is that it's quite easy to shoot quickly with that "safe action" trigger. Sorry about the long post, but please let me know what kind of recommendations you might have. Thanks in advance!!