IceDevil
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Posts posted by IceDevil
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I would like to thank the Sponsors, Shooters and Safety Officers for making today's match a success.
Bill and Trey put on a great match. When will results be available on-line?
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Just curious...am I missing something about Manny's prices vs. MG? I have been using the 95gr JHP MG for my steel load. I was reading this post and started checking Manny and MG for this bullet. If I buy 3 cases from MG, it comes out to $363 for each. If I buy 6 cases from Manny, it comes out to $362. Yeah, I read you can email Manny and ask about a case or two instead of the 6 case minimum but I'm sure he's going to have a different price for that so it's going to go up to MG prices - where's the savings??
I do agree Manny is a great guy, met him at Area 6 two years ago but I don't see the big difference that a few have said. Besides that, every time I order from MG, I have it at my door in 3-4 days and I'm on the east coast. I only had to wait once for about two weeks and that was when everyone was going crazy and buying everything.
I'm making a spreadsheet now of current bullet prices and comparisons, if anyone is interested, let me know and I'll post it here.
Thanks...
Your logic is correct, unfortunatey it's not leading you to the right conclusion. Ignore his website and give Manny a call or an email. Even on smaller orders it will be worth your while and his customer service is as good as anyone's.
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Thanks for the responses - very helpful.
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Who are some of the respected Glock pistolsmiths out there?
Any opinions?
For grip reductions or texturing, take a look at cold bore customs. He's a police officer in Texas that does the cleanest looking grip work I've seen. If it didn't take me out of SSP for IDPA he would have my 34 for a grip reduction/texture.
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I'm about to get started loading 9mm for IDPA and Steel Challenge and bought some VV320 since it seems so highly recommended for 9mm minor loads. I also bought some 124 FMJ Montana Gold bullets. In looking at the load data in the VV factory reloading guide, it suggests a starting load of 3.4 gr for Lapua 124 FMJ-RN. The max loading is 4.0. At the same time, for a 124 Hornady FMJ/FP, it shows a starting load of 3.9 and a max of 4.3. Can someone explain why the starting load for the RN is much lower than a FP of the same weight where both are jacekted? I have seen many people here recommend loads of 4.0 of N320 under 124 FMJ from MG in order to safely make minor - does that mean they're all running max loads?
On a related note, my intention is to start with 3.5 and then move up to 3.9 in .1 increments. I know the starting load shouldn't come close to making PF (and not sure if it will cycle my guns), but I will probably load 10 or so to start with to be safe. How many of each increment would you recommend loading to try to establish whether the load functions and is accurate? 15 rounds of each? I don't live that close to the range, so I'd like to load more rather than less since I can't try something and run home make some changes and go back to the range.
On OAL, I will initially try the 1.142 specified in the VV data although it seems like many people on here prefer a little shorter. I will make up a few dummy rounds at this length to make sure they fit in the mags and cycle. Assuming that works, my thought is to load all the different powder charges at the same OAL and just focus on the variable of powder for my first set of loads. Guns are a G34 and Springfield 1911 9mm.
Any help with these questions or suggestions on my approach to my initial loading is greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.
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I started the original post and am back to close this one out. All the responses were greatly appreciated and helpful in making my decision. In the end I was talked out of the 650 and decided to go with the 550, which I just ordered from Brian. I actually think this decision goes against the majority of the advice in this thread (although it was a close call), but in the end I think it's the right decision for my needs. With two little kids I don't see myself increasing my production needs in the near future (unfortuantely if anything it is more likely to go down) and the 550 seems capable of doing my 600-1000/month in 3-4 hrs. The 650 with casefeeder costs 70% more than the 550 and it seemed like overkill in cost and complication for my needs. As someone without any reloading experience, the manual indexing and simplicity of the 550 were big selling points. It may be that some day I find the manual indexing to be a hassle, but the nice thing about Dillon is that the resale value is so high. Even if I load for 6 mos or a year and decide I want to upgrade to a 650, it looks like I could sell the 550 for 75-90% of what I paid. When you factor in the cost savings on the ammo produced in that time period, it is essentially like selling without a loss. This makes it pretty hard to go wrong with a Dillon purchase.
One other twist that weighed on my decision was the Hornady LNL. They offer a lot of machine for the money (basically you get 650 features for the price of a 550) and the ability to add case and bullet feeders later was very tempting. In the end, the huge support base of Dillon users (particularly on this forum), the long track record and the simplicity of the 550 and some reports of the LNL's requiring a lot tweaking on initial set-up pushed me to the 550. Not trying to start a debate on red vs. blue or disrespect our host (who has given me very good service so far!), but I thought it was worth mentioning since it definitely factored into my decision.
With any luck, the 550 should be here before x-mas and I'll be loading next week. Maybe I'll come back here once I've had a chance to load 5,000 rounds and report on whether I think I made the right decision. Thanks again for everyone's input. We'll see how many times I'm back in the next couple of weeks with dumb set-up questions.
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If you have accurately described your need then you should be listening to what Brian says. It's not just about the difference in price. If you were loading high volumes of 9mm then maybe the 650 would be better. But with switching between multiple gun/rifle calibers and the volumes you need to load then the 550 is a better platform. Just my 2 cents.
Since I currently shoot 98% 9mm, if you take the caliber change convenience/cost out of the equation and assume that I am looking to load 1k/mo of a single caliber and can afford both the 650 and 550 does your recommendation change?
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As the OP of this thread I thought it only fair to share my thoughts for anyone else considering the same choices. After reading all the responses and surfing the forums for too many hours this wknd, I am leaning towards the 550. I don't know any 650 users that live close by to help set-up (any 650 experts in Los Angeles volunteering?)or that I can call to pop over and help me fix my rookie mistakes (or help me change my underwear after blowing up a tube of primers on the 650! Those threads were pretty scary for a newbie). I am also beginning to think that for the amount that I will load the ratio of set-up hassles and tweaking time to actual loading will be out of whack (to put it another way, the set-up and tweaking time of a more complicated machine will have less loading to be "amortized" over). In short, simplicity (and hopefully consistency) is winning out over top production speed.
After watching some youtube videos, it looks like the 550 can get moving pretty fast and I will eventually be able to produce my monthly requirements in less than an hour per week. With two little kids, I don't see my requirements jumping up too much in the near future since I can't get to the range more than the 2-3x/mo I do now. If that ever changes, I think I have some good options: 1) add case feeder to 550, 2) sell the 550 and upgrade to the 650 (I assume I could use the feeder from the 550 and not have to buy another), or 3) keep the 550 for .45 and .223 and add a 650 for high volume 9mm. The resale value of the used 550's that I've seen on ebay recently makes me less concerned about outgrowing the 550.
I am still in the process of building my bench and setting up my reloading space, so I have at least a few more weeks to waffle and change my mind before ordering. I have to admit that the siren song of being able to load a months worth of ammo in an hour on the 650 is hard to fully dismiss. The good news is that if I go w/the 550, I don't think I will have to worry about Brian trying to upsell me when I call in the order. Either way, I have 5k primers and 4lb of powder in my garage and an impending price increase from Dillon telling me to just make a decision and get to reloading.
Again thanks for everyone's feedback. I hope Dillon appreciates how big a selling point this forum and all its participants are in comparing Dillon against its competition.
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I agree with most of Grumpy's post, except for the first sentence. Just start with a 550; you can load one round at at ime on it, but you'll get real tired of that after about 5 minutes.
And the price difference isn't just in the cost of the press, a Caliber Conversion Kit and a Toolhead for the 650 are $37 more than for the 550. And when you add the Casefeeder, it's $38 per Casefeed Plate after that.
For the calibers and the qty's you will load, I would recommend the 550. As Grumpy said, you can load 4 - 500 rounds/hr on it, so in two hours you've loaded your months worth of ammo. It's way easier to switch calibers on the 550 than it is on the 650. And the 550, being a much simplier press with less parts "doing things for you," is more reliable over the long haul. And another cool thing about the 550 - everything that is happening on it is visible. Which is not the case with the 650's priming system. On the 550, if you are tuning / tweaking the priming system, you can make some changes and observe whether or not they made and effect. With the 650 that's not the case. Since the 650' priming system is mechanically operated and in a captured housing, if you are working on the priming system, you take it apart, make some adjustments, and when you put it back together you hope you made some improvements, because you can't watch it work.
Call if you want to talk it out some more.
be
Toll-free: 877 219-5598
How can you argue with anything he's said
? He's a Dillon dealer (his primary business!), knows the presses inside out, and is a world class shooter and all around great guy....NUF SAID!I agree that his input carries more weight than others. Plus, it's pretty hard to argue with somebody selling you a product who is emphatic that you should buy the cheaper one! Don't run into that scenario very often.
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Wow! Thanks for all the thoughtful (and quick) replies. Without tallying them, the responses seem to be roughly evenly split between 550/650, so I guess I shouldn't feel too bad about struggling with the choice. All of the responses have been very helpful - keep them coming.
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(TITLE) That's easy 1050.
I could load a months worth of ammo in a half hour!
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I am an IDPA/steel challenge shooter shooting a couple times per month for a total of about 750-1,000 rnds/mo and I have never reloaded before. I basically shoot only 9mm but would like to also eventually load for 45 and maybe 223. After pouring over all the material in Brian's store for the last three wks, it seems like the 550 would be a good place to start, but I keep coming back to the 650. It's only a $125 cost difference w/o the case feeder and the difference is even smaller if you add the feeder to both. In the grand scheme of the $1k+ upfront investment, it seems worthwhile to spend an extra $100 in exchange for a 5th station to run a powder check die, auto indexing, purpose built case feeder, and never having to worry about upgrading if I start shooting more. The only downside I can see is that the extra complexity of the 650 will require more fiddling and be harder to learn on. These worry me a lot more than more expensive cal changes since I don't see myself doing a lot of changes. As a practical matter, I have two young kids and work long hours, so the less time spent in the garage reloading, the better. Not looking for another time consuming hobby. I just want to be able to head into the garage for an hour or two at night and produce nice powder-puff minor loads for cheaper than factory.
My plan would be to buy the 650 w/o the feeder and go slow at first (why not start with loading only one full round round at a time?) to learn the machine and reloading process and then in 4-5 mos (or whenever I feel comfortable speeding things up) add the case feeder (yes I have read the thread on the stupidity of buying a 650 w/o feeder). I would appreciate anyone's thoughts on this plan and how my circumstances fit into what seems to be the age old debate of 550 vs 650. How much harder is it really going to be to learn on a 650 vs. 550? How much more "fiddling" for the 650 (in surfing these boards it seems like every press requires some amount fiddling)? This may be one of those choices that has two good options - I doubt I would regret either purchase - but it would be nice to get this purchase right the first time.
Thanks in advance for your input!
Mods, not sure if this goes in the Newbie or Dillon forum - feel free to move it.
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I'm running a 9lb recoil spring and a 17lb mainspring in my Trojan 9mm. I think it came with a 12lb spring. The gunn barley moves. Here is a video that a friend shot of me shooting it. You can really tell in stage 2.
Victor,
What load are you shooting in those videos if you don't mind me asking - looks really mild. I have a Springfield 9mm w/14 lb stock recoil spring shooting cheap factory ammo and I get a lot more muzzle flip (of course you probably also have a better grip). I am getting set up to reload my own and since the cost savings are not huge for 9mm, the main reason is to allow me to produce some light minor loads like yours. Thanks.
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I'm not a revolver expert, but since I see you plan on moving to California I will encourage you to familiarize yourself with the CA "safe" gun list. If there are guns you want that are not on the list, you should buy them before you come here. As long as they are not assault weapons and you don't bring hi-cap mags, you can import and register any handguns you want. You should check out www.calguns.net for details of the joys of gun ownership in CA.
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I have seen mention of a price increase for Dillon presses in 2011 but have not seen any specific numbers. Does anybody know the ballpark of the upcoming price increases - 3%, 5%, 10%????
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On the Comp tac website what do they mean by G34 W/Rail and W/o rail?
Are they talking about if I have something attached to my rail? I'm assuming I would order the one without the rail.
Hopefully this is not too late, but they are talking about whether you have a rail - the earlier glocks don't have a light rail - not whether anything is attached to it. Generally if a holster maker is selling a holster to be used with rail mounted accessories they will specify the brand and model of light since they are all different shapes and generally require different holsters.
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I have a set of Talon grips (http://talongungrips.com) that I just put on a 34 and they feel really nice. I haven't done a lot of shooting with them yet, but so far I'm a satisfied customer. The seller ships very fast and they are easy to install.
? He's a Dillon dealer (his primary business!), knows the presses inside out, and is a world class shooter and all around great guy....NUF SAID!
2011 AZ State IDPA Championship
in Match Announcements - Pistol Only - USPSA, IPSC & Misc.
Posted
So I guess now would not be a good time to ask you if PRG plans to host another sanctioned match in Nov like last year!