Pseudonym
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Posts posted by Pseudonym
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With this ruling, does anyone think it might be time to revisit how this rule is going to be interpreted for Kalifornia? I realize it is just one city, but we all know how things go in this state.
https://www.firearmspolicy.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/CA9-fyock-sunnyvale-decision.pdf
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Thanks Pat
I have starting load data for the three powders, but most are close or getting close to major. I was hoping someone had used one of the 3 powders with the 155gr bullets and loading towards minor. I just want to avoid unburnt powder and having it get stuck under the extractor, and hopefully get an accurate load as well. I will try and see if I can search again for Sam Keen's post as I am almost certain he had a post for a minor N320 and his 646. -
I am a ham-fisted shooter so it does not need to be to a bare minimum. I would rather have a 145 PF load that is dead-nuts accurate, then a 126 bunny fart that is so-so, if that helps. I am shooting outlaw matches, steel, and with some ICORE tossed in here and there, so I wanted something a little less stout then 200gr major loads.
Thanks -
I have been trying to work up a minor 40 S&W load for my 610 and I am looking for some help. I was trying to work up a load for a 155gr RN over Power Pistol, but as I have downloaded I am getting unburnt powder, also I was not happy with the accuracy.
So here are my other options at the moment, and I would appreciate any help or suggestions.I have N320 and Solo1000 powder as options to use with the 155gr, or use the 200gr bullet I use for major and try to download to minor using one of the above 3 powders.
I thought Sam or Mike had listed some minor 40 S&W data they used in their 646's many years ago, but I was not able to find it with the search function.
Mods I know this is not the reloading section, but if you could please leave this post in the revolver section I would appreciate it, as this is my target audience.(No pun intended) -
See page 5, based on classifier scores 3% or so,
http://uspsa.org/document_library/2014%20USPSA%20Annual%20Report.pdf
Classifiers are not the issue. They are all either 6 rounds or reload neutral, it is the filed courses where the increase in capacity kills the 6-shot revo. All thi ssaid, I was never a big revo shooter. I wanted to try it so I spent the $ to get 'the' gun, now if I wanted to play for real, I'd have to spend it all over again. Not happening. If I do show up to shoot, it will be with my 625.
Even if Revo division doubled at most clubs it would still be a minor participation division.
I am not sure what you were trying to indicate by your hack/quote/editing job, but I was responding to Nik asking if participation had increased. If you use the classifiers for participation numbers there is a 3% increase from 2013(357 more people). However the increase from 2012 to 2013 was larger with an increase of 495 people.
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And it's really alive now? I hear a lot of talk, but is match participation really up?I don't care what others say, changing the rules to allow 8 rounds minor in USPSA was a bad move.
Thats ok.
I think it was a great move.
It was either allow eight shooters or kill the division. As it was it was almost dead anyway.
See page 5, based on classifier scores 3% or so,
http://uspsa.org/document_library/2014%20USPSA%20Annual%20Report.pdf
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Wow, quite a thread. Too bad it got so heated with a few people.
Now that PC 32310-32311 has been updated, there is NO legal way for a non-CA-resident to bring hi-cap mags to any California match. It is the "importing" clause that is important.
So the 3.3.1 rule will basically bring everyone to O10 or L10, if such person competes.
Guess I'll have to buy some 10 rd magazines now.
Dave
PENAL CODE
SECTION 32310-32390
32310. (a) Except as provided in Article 2 (commencing with Section
32400) of this chapter and in Chapter 1 (commencing with Section
17700) of Division 2 of Title 2, commencing January 1, 2000, any
person in this state who manufactures or causes to be manufactured,
imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for
sale, or who gives, lends, buys, or receives any large-capacity
magazine is punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding
one year or imprisonment pursuant to subdivision (h) of Section
1170.
(
For purposes of this section, "manufacturing" includes bothfabricating a magazine and assembling a magazine from a combination
of parts, including, but not limited to, the body, spring, follower,
and floor plate or end plate, to be a fully functioning
large-capacity magazine.
32311. (a) Except as provided in Article 2 (commencing with Section
32400) of this chapter and in Chapter 1 (commencing with Section
17700) of Division 2 of Title 2, commencing January 1, 2014, any
person in this state who knowingly manufactures or causes to be
manufactured, imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers or
exposes for sale, or who gives, lends, buys, or receives any large
capacity magazine conversion kit is punishable by a fine of not more
than one thousand dollars ($1,000) or imprisonment in a county jail
not to exceed six months, or by both that fine and imprisonment. This
section does not apply to a fully assembled large-capacity magazine,
which is governed by Section 32310.
(
For purposes of this section, a "large capacity magazineconversion kit" is a device or combination of parts of a fully
functioning large-capacity magazine, including, but not limited to,
the body, spring, follower, and floor plate or end plate, capable of
converting an ammunition feeding device into a large-capacity
magazine.
...
Dave,
I did a little bit of research and with those statutes, everything seems okay, until you read California Penal Code 32390 which reads:
"32390. Except as provided in Article 2 (commencing with Section
32400) of this chapter and in Chapter 1 (commencing with Section
17700) of Division 2 of Title 2, any large-capacity magazine is a
nuisance and is subject to Section 18010."
And so we must read California Penal Code 18010:
18010. (a) The Attorney General, district attorney, or city
attorney may bring an action to enjoin the manufacture of,
importation of, keeping for sale of, offering or exposing for sale,
giving, lending, or possession of, any item that constitutes a
nuisance under any of the following provisions:
...
(20) Section 32390, relating to a large-capacity magazine.
...
(
These weapons shall be subject to confiscation and summarydestruction whenever found within the state.
© These weapons shall be destroyed in the same manner described
in Section 18005, except that upon the certification of a judge or of
the district attorney that the ends of justice will be served
thereby, the weapon shall be preserved until the necessity for its
use ceases."
So what I read from this is that they will simply confiscate your magazines and then destroy them. There would be no fine involved.
I would ask this: With a discretion of a police officer involved, would they really do any "raids" on any local USPSA match? I would suspect that there are at least one or two officers at any given California USPSA match that would not blink an eye at people using high capacity magazines. I understand that these statutes were constructed to battle the violence in heavy crime areas and are used as "add-on" offenses. How often do we believe that these are enforced. I suspect enforcement varies GREATLY throughout the state.
But then, this is all an academic discussion when you realize that there are SO MANY matches here in Northern Nevada. We have the matches in Fallon, Reno and Carson City. Did I miss any others? The only matches I go to in Sacramento are the NorCal Practical Precision Rifle Club matches, which are all bolt action matches. So no worries there since you would not have a magazine greater than 10 rounds.
Good discussion though. I checked around in Calguns and the prevailing theme there was simple: no one bothers you about high capacity magazines. And when I spoke to some people from a 3Gun club from Sacramento who travelled here to Reno, stated that they have all kinds of "illegal" stuff and no one bothers them.
You need to read a little further in the CAPC specifically: Article 2 commencing with Section 32400.
As far as leaving the state of Kalifornia and returning to the state it is also covered there specifically:
32420. Section 32310 does not apply to the importation of a
large-capacity magazine by a person who lawfully possessed the
large-capacity magazine in the state prior to January 1, 2000,
lawfully took it out of the state, and is returning to the state with
the same large-capacity magazine.
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Dave if you have any insight, will Eagle Imports then be stocking the K100 accessories as well, magazine release, thumb safeties, sights, guide rods, springs, etc.?
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I did not want to start a new thread for this, and this seemed the best location to ask this question. Is it possible to convert the P09 to single action only or is there something in the omega system that prevents it?
Thanks
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I'm in the awkward position of having the window to purchase here in CA close at the end of the month. I'd love an XCalibur but have a Mk 7 K100 sitting at the gun shop waiting for me. Didn't want to get caught without one.
I am in the same position. With SSE going away the end of the year, and only being able to purchase 1 handgun every 30 days, it is going to be cutting it close. If they are not out to the distributors soon it may very well be too late for the X-Calibur.
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OK thanks Ty, hopefully the 929 will be added to the list. Checking the CA DOJ list and what S&W has added it would definitely appear they are not going to be offering as many revolvers as they have in the past. I know with autoloaders and the micro-stamping requirement any new models(autoloader) are not going to appear on the list.
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Sorry to hear you had a bad experience with LHS. Did you use PayPal, if so is there a way to recoup the money by letting them know?
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Smith will be adding them to the list one day but who wants to wait?
I would not be so sure it will be added to the list. Both S&W and Ruger have said they are not going to apply for anymore firearms to be added to the Kalifornia roster. They have also been allowing most all their firearms to drop off the roster without renewing them.
This is what has dropped off this month and is expected to drop off the roster this month just from S&W.
Smith & Wesson 629-6 Trail Boss Unfluted Cyl SKU 163409 / Stainless Steel Revolver 3" .44 Magnum 10/1/2014
Smith & Wesson 629-6 Mountain Gun SKU 163653 / Stainless Steel Revolver 4" .44 Magnum 10/1/2014
Smith & Wesson 17-9 Masterpiece SKU 150477 / Steel Revolver 6" .22 LR 10/1/2014
Smith & Wesson 15-10 (Blued) SKU 150716 / Steel Revolver 4" .38 Special 10/3/2014
Smith & Wesson M&P 340 (Matte Black) SKU 103072 / Alloy; Stainless Steel Revolver 1.87" .357 Magnum 10/3/2014
Smith & Wesson 27-9 (75th Anniversary) SKU 150974 / Steel Revolver 6.5" .357 Magnum 10/12/2014
Smith & Wesson 629-6 Magna Port SKU 163641 / Stainless Steel Revolver 6.5" .44 Magnum 10/13/2014
Smith & Wesson 460 Whitetails Unlimited SKU 150053 / Stainless Steel Revolver 8.37" .460 S&W Magnum 10/13/2014
Smith & Wesson 327 MPR8 SKU 170292 / Alloy, Stainless Steel Revolver 5" .357 Magnum 10/13/2014
Smith & Wesson 327-1 TRR8 SKU 170269 / Alloy, Stainless Steel Revolver 5" .357 Magnum 10/13/2014
Smith & Wesson 460 ES SKU 163463 / Stainless Steel Revolver 2.75" .460 S&W Magnum 10/13/2014
Smith & Wesson 500 ES SKU 163503 / Stainless Steel Revolver 2.75" .500 S&W Magnum 10/13/2014
Smith & Wesson 460 Hunter SKU 170280 / Stainless Steel Revolver 12" .460 S&W Magnum 10/13/2014
Smith & Wesson 36-10 Classic (Color Case) SKU 150193 / Steel Revolver 3" .38 Spl 10/15/2014
Smith & Wesson 36-10 Classic (Nickel) SKU 150198 / Steel Revolver 3" .38 Spl 10/15/2014
Smith & Wesson 22-4 Classic (Color Case) SKU 150188 / Steel Revolver 5.5" .45 ACP 10/15/2014
Smith & Wesson 22-4 Classic (Nickel) SKU 150189 / Steel Revolver 5.5" .45 ACP 10/15/2014
Smith & Wesson 460 XVR SKU 163460 / Stainless Steel Revolver 8.37" .460 S&W Magnum 10/21/2014
Smith & Wesson 25-15 (Blue) SKU 150256 / Steel Revolver 6.5" .45 Colt 10/22/2014
Smith & Wesson 67-5 F Comp (Matte Black) SKU 170324 / Stainless Steel Revolver 3" .38 Spl 10/22/2014
Smith & Wesson 637-2 Power Port (Matte Black) SKU 170327 / Alloy, Stainless Steel Revolver 2.125" .38 Spl 10/22/2014
Smith & Wesson 351C (Black) SKU103351 / Aluminum Alloy Revolver 1.875" .22 WMR 10/24/2014
Smith & Wesson 629-6 Birdsong Finish SKU 170230 / Stainless Steel Revolver 7.5" .44 Magnum 10/24/2014
Smith & Wesson SD9 VE (Two-Tone) SKU 123903 / Stainless Steel; Polymer Pistol 4.00" 9mm 10/24/2014
Smith & Wesson 22A-1 Real Tree APG SKU 107442 / Alloy, Stainless Steel Pistol 5.5" .22 LR 10/28/2014
Smith & Wesson 629-6 Stealth Hunter (Matte Black) SKU 170323 / Stainless Steel Revolver 7.5" .44 Magnum 10/28/2014
Smith & Wesson 24-6 (Nickel) SKU 150259 / Steel Revolver 6.5" .44 Spl 10/28/2014
Smith & Wesson 27-9 (Nickel) SKU 150342 / Steel Revolver 6.5" .357 Magnum 10/28/2014
Smith & Wesson 386NG (Matte Black) SKU 163424 / Stainless Steel, Alloy Revolver 2.5" .357 Magnum 10/28/2014
Smith & Wesson 27-9 (Nickel) SKU 150340 / Steel Revolver 4" .357 Magnum 10/28/2014
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I am sorry if I caused confusion when I compared the needed conversion to make non-roster revolvers legal to the SSE used for pistols. The governor did sign the bill closing the allowance to convert bottom feeders to single shot and that will be gone as of January. However revolvers are not done as SSE, they are converted to SINGLE ACTION, please see the CA PC I listed above, and you will still be able to use this as a way to get off roster revolvers until they get around to banning them as well. Here is the basic work around in plain English from the CalGuns website.
The law says that single action revolver that holds 5 or more rounds with a barrel of over 3 inches and an overall length of 7.5 inches is roster exempt. This means that any S&W K, L, N or X frame revolver with a barrel over 3 inches can be imported into the state of California once converted to Single Action. I have not verified if a J frame with a 3 inch barrel meets the overall length requirement of 7.5 inches.
Some FFL's will let you convert the revolver yourself in there shop before starting the paperwork negating the need for it to be done out of state (some ffl's will even do the conversion for you for a charge). If you are going to do this you should be proficient in the conversion process. An FFL does not want to be answering your questions on how to put the revolver back together or have your shenanigans stop them from being able to help other customers.
You know what gun you have been lusting after that meets the size requirements, now you just need to find someone selling it that is open minded.
Ultimately you are going to be removing the double action sear from the hammer. This is what causes the hammer to cock back when the trigger is pulled. Once this is removed and the gun is put back together when the trigger is pulled the cylinder will still rotate but the hammer will not cock. However; the gun will still work when the hammer is cocked manually, thus making it single action only. Since removing the double action sear requires a hammer and a punch I have found it best to purchase a used hammer from gunbroker and remove the double action sear myself. Then if someone is going to do the conversion I can ship out the hammer and it becomes a drop in job. Also if you are doing the conversion at a gun shop just dropping in the hammer without the double action sear in place of the stock hammer is much faster. After a few tries the conversion process takes less than 10 minutes and all you need is a screw driver.
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It is basically a work around similar to the single shot exemption that is used for the bottom feeders. The gun basically needs to be converted to single action only, then meet the criteria for barrel length and overall length and it is good to go. Once it has been DROS'd to an owner it can then be converted back to its factory SA/DA.
Here is the CA PC.
12133. (a) The provisions of this chapter shall not apply to a
single-action revolver that has at least a 5-cartridge capacity
with a barrel length of not less than three inches, and meets
any of the following specifications:
(1) Was originally manufactured prior to 1900 and is a curio or
relic, as defined in Section 478.11 of Title 27 of the Code of
Federal Regulations.
(2) Has an overall length measured parallel to the barrel of at
least 71/2 inches when the handle, frame or receiver, and
barrel are assembled.
(3) Has an overall length measured parallel to the barrel of at
least 71/2 inches when the handle, frame or receiver, and
barrel are assembled and that is currently approved for
importation into the United States pursuant to the provisions
of paragraph (3) of subsection (d) of Section 925 of Title 18
of the United States Code. -
My holster and mag pouches took about 8 to 9 weeks to reach my front door. Pavel was running behind on orders at that time, and did state on the website that it would take 8 weeks to reach the states. You could always send him an e-mail, he has always responded in a short time.
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I have been using a DAA Racemaster. Adjusting it to where I want the grip I do not get a smooth release. I think that with the longer 6.5" barrel, it is perhaps acting like a lever and putting some tension/drag on the mechanism. It does not seem to happen as severe with shorter barrels, perhaps some sort of a muzzle plug would help. I tried the Speed-Sec, but unlocked there is no retention on the gun which I do not like.
In all honesty if I could find an old Ernie Hill speedleather or a PPC rig for them I would prefer one of those. The closest thing that is still in manufacture is the 002 holster. So from what you are saying is the 6" will cover the muzzle and front sight on a 6.5"? That is the other thing, on revolvers in these speed rig holsters like the DAA, and Speed Sec, they are just kind of perched up on the holster, rather then sitting down in them like on a bottom feeder. On tight stages with props, either I go to the safe area and bag my gun, or I am constantly checking the lock to make sure the gun is secure. I could probably be more graceful moving about taping and resetting stages, but well somehow I never learned how to move like a dancer.
So bottom line before I purchase will 6" cover the muzzle of a 6.5" so the crown is not protruding, or should I just get the 7"? -
I am going to switch out holsters to the Safariland Cup holster, but I am not sure which to order. Both of my guns I plan on using it for have 6.5" barrels, and they make a 6" and 7" holster. I am not sure if the 6" will be long enough to protect the muzzle and front sight, or if I should go with the 7".
Thanks Guys. -
Canuck would be able to provide you with the most information on Grand Power, but they are holding their cards close to the vest right now as far as the new distributor. I would say it depends on what pistol you are after as to if it is a good time to purchase. I am trying patiently to wait for the X-Calibur myself, but if a K100 is what you are after, unless you want the new Mk12 take-down levers, I do not think there is an issue. My K100 has been flawless and I would not think twice about purchasing another Grand Power product. While Century has not had the greatest support for the pistols, I cannot speak highly enough for the factory and the employees themselves in regards to getting support and parts for the pistols.
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I have looked at the results and what others have failed to mention is that of the bottom 10 finishers 7 were shooting Minor. So obviously if you choose to shoot 8 shot Minor you have a 70% chance of finishing in the bottom 10 at any given match.
I think my conclusion is only slightly sillier than making any other sweeping declarations based on a single Revolver Nationals held just three months after 8 shot Minor was introduced.
Perhaps so. But seeing as these, so far, are the 2 matches with a significant amount of revolver shooter in attendance, I think there is a more then obvious pattern.
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It looks like the 625 is now obsolete
As to the 625 being dead, if it is not viable at an exclusively revolver match, it won't be at matches where revolver equality is not even a thought. Shannon Smith and Matt Griffin are top performers and their results speak for themselves.
Revolver now needs two sub classes
And not a single person predicted this would be the outcome. Oh wait..............No major guns in the Top 20. Looks like capacity rules.
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Does anyone know if it is possible to convert a CR Speed holster from a bottom feeder model, to a revolver model? If so where would one obtain the parts to make such a conversion? I checked on Rescomp's website and was not able to locate the required parts there.
Thanks -
John, you're certainly entitled to your opinion, but regardless of how strongly you phrase it, you are delivering the minority position on this issue.
Below are all the posts I could did up regarding the development of the rules for revolver division, and the discussion on 8 shot being allowed to shoot to capacity in revolver division. I may have missed some, but it seems to me there is not a majority of people in favor of 8 shots.
http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=9761
http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=19031
http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=18579
http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=25235
http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=35948&hl=
http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=36050
http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=36769&hl=
http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=42936&hl=8+shot
http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=43741
http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=44492
http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=45527
http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=45821
http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=53299&page=1
http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=79484
http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=95512
http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=100133
http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=109154&st=0
http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=72652
http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=134425
http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=99265
http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=134693
http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=109154
My poll on this forum, which started one of the longest discussion threads on any Revolver subject ever discussed on BE, might have been poorly-worded. If anything, it created a skew in favor of not changing the rules because it unintentionally included the "I don't give a shit" crowd in with the "NO" crowd. Despite that, the "YES" vote won very decisively, and it became very clear to USPSA leadership that there was serious interest in the concept.
Mike I have the upmost respect for you, and typically agree with you 99.9% of the time, but if you are using your poll saying the majority of people were in favor that is wrong. Just as you stated your wording on the poll skewed the results, because you did not give the option for a straight up and down yes or no vote.
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The way the rule is written and the language used, would seem to leave very little room for interpretation.
3.3.1 In jurisdictions where competitors are restricted by law to maximum
magazine capacity, the maximum capacity allowed in the contest, per
division, will be the lesser of said law limitations or division limitations.
Individuals exempt from the law restrictions must still comply with this
section. Any such limitations must be made known to all competitors by the
Match Director/Range Master before the start of the match.
If you read in this thread about Colorado's new magazine law, both CHA-LEE and MarkCO have claimed to have seen an e-mail from Amidon on this rule and its impact on Colorado. The interpretation Amidon has conveyed in this e-mail is that if possession is not a crime then the rule does not apply, this is my understanding from an e-mail between Mark and myself.
http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=189737
Now please understand Kalifornia and Colorado laws are very different in their language, and currently how Colorado's law is being interpreted by the state Attorney General. I find it beyond odd that USPSA makes this rule, and has not published publically their own interpretation of this rule from state to state. I am wondering if USPSA is concerned about possible litigation down the road if they do in fact make a ruling about this in states where magazine capacity is restricted by law. Then I have to ask myself why would USPSA be so stupid as to step on their own dick, and make a rule like this in the first place. Hawaii has been shooting USPSA with 10 round magazine limits for a long time and this subject has never come up or a rule made that I can recall. Canada and IPSC have been under this 10 round restriction as well.
For purposes of this section, "manufacturing" includes both
New rule 3.3.1 for 2014 rulebook.
in USPSA/IPSC Rules
Posted
Odd works for me. Well try this one, it goes to CalGuns website and can link from there.
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=1046357
Or the San Jose Mercury News
http://www.mercurynews.com/crime-courts/ci_27641047/gun-rights-showdown-sunnyvale-restrictions-upheld-by-appeals