John Z Sr
-
Posts
1,312 -
Joined
-
Last visited
Content Type
Forums
Profiles
Events
Store
Posts posted by John Z Sr
-
-
John how would you set up a revo match now,? With the 8 shot minor rule..
Six shot or eight shot ?
I could do it under my USPSA club with USPSA rules allowing 8 shot minor, OR, do it as a ZSA match with 6 or 8 Division, no power factor, input always wanted
-
Setting up good stand-alone revolver matches is a proven way to gather interest and participation. I did that with my series of Iowa revo matches, and Sam did it with his excellent MCC matches.
Time for some other people to step up and take the lead on this. We really need several of these destination revolver matches around the country each year. Without stuff like that, the overall interest level in revo (including my own) starts to wane.
I don't think charity causes have any meaningful effect on participation. My charitable contributions are handled directly and privately. I would personally prefer not to pay a higher match fee just so that somebody else can donate the bulk of that money. It's certainly not a wrong or bad thing to do--it's just not my preference.
I totally agree Mike, I would be glad to do one here in the Raleigh, NC area. I have complete access to a number of quality ranges that would easily support a Level 2 match, with the priority going to REVO Division. If I do it, will you come??? That is the big question. everyone TALKS about, "hey let's do this, or hey wouldn't that be cool" but when it comes down to it, if we don't get enough shooters to SEND in an application and a check, the match can not happen. I WILL build it, if you all will COME.
-
ZSA has 2 divisions where you can have a blast with REVO, 6 or 8 Division. We have a match in Del Rio, Texas, not sure how far that is from you.
-
I am, and 1 friend from NC is as well. I think Linda said there are 6 of us, that's a whopping 50% more than AREA 6 a few weeks ago
-
I've read every post here on this thread. All I really shoot is revo, and that's because I just enjoy shooting the round gun. Yes, at matches revo guys get all kinds of "jabs" from the other shooters, but it's always in good FUN. Revo has always been the smallest Division, but we always had FUN and everyone got along. This rule change is really changing that, there are some pretty STRONG opinions both ways. I think the change was done with all the best intentions, while I may not personally agree with it. To say "get over it, it's done" is not, in my opinion, the American way, sounds a tad dictator like to me. I will not bash the change, or any one in favor of it any longer, we have idpa for that!! (yes, it's hard not to get in a dig here and there, old dog don't do new tricks!!). My plan after shooting last Saturday at the RO Invitational in Florida (12 hour 1 way drive) to be the ONLY revo shooter, is to get my moonclips loaded up to leave Thurs for AREA 6 in Georgia (5 hour 1 way drive) to shoot against 3 other revos (we had 8 up 'till a week ago). Shoot Friday and leave right from the SAFE AREA to drive home, 5 hours, take nap, then go to set up and run my local SCSA match on Saturday an hour from home, come home and score and post results from that match, then Sunday, go an hour in another direction to set up and run my USPSA match ( 1 of 2 every month). So, over 72 hours or so, that will be around 600 rounds going out of a revo, I get my revo fix. Shooting against yourself just ain't that much fun. I long for the days at SC Section when we would have a full squad of revos, from "D" class, up to "GM" all having fun together, I feel those days are over, which sucks. Maybe 8 shot will bring them back, maybe not. I will always have FUN with my revo, but most of it will be while shooting ZSA. When we started ZSA over 3 years ago, my goal was simple rules and divisions, so these type problems would not occur. So far, no problems at all, shoot 6, 8, 15 or 24 division and be SAFE and have FUN, so any other revos that may not shoot in USPSA revo division, and have no interest in idpa, you still have a place to go.
-
I still think if the major matches recognized the high 6 shooter as a special category it would be a good thing. They do it for lady and junior it seems with just 1 participant. It would give some incentive for major hold outs to keep their wheels spinning.
Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
Good point Chris
-
Here's the historical reality:
The 8-minor rule change is a topic that has been discussed and informally debated for years. From the beginning, USPSA Revolver Division has never generated good participation numbers, and has been under continuous pressure of being eliminated as a result. The former USPSA president made it clear that he favored discontinuing the division. This motivated some of the serious national-level revolver guys to try to solve the problem. We saw a minor upsurge in interest, stirred initially by my revolver matches in Iowa (the last one set a new national attendance record for Revolver Division), and Sam's revolver matches in Tennessee (which easily broke my match's record). Then, unfortunately, things entered a decline, reaching a dismal participation low-water mark in 2012, when only 17 Revolver Division shooters bothered to attend the USPSA National Revolver Championship. Again, the discussion of eliminating the division became a serious topic among USPSA leadership.
That is the reason why this whole 8-minor rule change arose. Not to "help Jerry keep winning" or any of that other nonsense. The 8-minor rule chance was conceived in an effort to save the division for everybody, by attempting to make Revolver more appealing to a wider group of shooters and hopefully spark an upsurge in participation.
My poll on this forum, which started one of the longest discussion threads on any Revolver subject ever discussed on BE, might have been poorly-worded. If anything, it created a skew in favor of not changing the rules because it unintentionally included the "I don't give a shit" crowd in with the "NO" crowd. Despite that, the "YES" vote won very decisively, and it became very clear to USPSA leadership that there was serious interest in the concept.
And so now here we are. It's a done deal now. We're not going back.
Whether the 8-minor option will be enough to save a dying division remains to be seen. It will all depend on whether we revolver shooters want to keep shooting our wheelguns at major matches, where we will be noticed and counted. But this I know for sure--we have reached the point where those who disagreed with the rule change and insist on raising the whole sour grapes routine at every opportunity, are doing nothing but harm to our divisional morale.
Very well stated Mike, utmost of respect for you, and what you are trying to do. Together, we may grow revo, divided, we must strap on bottom feeding plastic guns, and none of us want that!!! I am staying the course for Area 6, we had 8 revo shooters, last check we are down to 4, I might be the only one left, but I will still shoot revo.
-
I don't look at it as whining Tom, I run 12-14 matches per month between ZSA, USPSA and SCSA. That does not included teaching classes on 3 ranges. I do shoot, and bring many new shooters into the sports. I do go shoot. I am not one of the computer geeks that does nothing but type about shooting. I don't get offended at anything, well maybe muslums blowing shit up in America, commies in US Government, and really fat chicks in spandex at the buffet, but that's just me, and people that don't stand during the National Anthem. So say what you will about me and all the other "whiners", but is this not what a "forum" is for???
-
+1 with Bosshoss
Yup what he said so very well
-
problem with revo Nats is that it is the SS Nats, all 24 round stages. The 29-32 round field course are what makes revo fun, in my opinion. If the stages are set so as not to make the 8 shot advantage painfully obvious, the results will be BS. I just shot the RO Invitational yesterday in Frostproopf, Fl. and there were the typical 4- 8 round arrays, with NO place to see all 4 targets from anywhere else. Or the stage with a popper, 2 static and a swinger (7 rounds from 1 spot) how does an 8 shot not have total clear advantage?? This is akin to allowing 13 rounds in production, only in Glocks, how well would that go over with anyone but Glock owners???
-
Chris I wouldn't characterize those who feel strongly that the new rule is bad, as haters. One of the personality traits that make us Revo is passion, and I think that is what they are expressing. I hope those who feel it was a bad idea are proven wrong, and then come back into the fold. And if they are proven right, I'm willing to admit it and hopefully work towards something that will work. I'd much rather deal with those that are passionate and principled than those who are apathetic or timid.
I haven't even been close to going to a match yet this year! Starting to get cranky even.
Just hope my first match of the year isn't the Revo Nats, though it may be better that way.
Exactly, please don't consider me as a hater, I do all I can every day to get more folks shooting, especially revo shooters. I would LOVE to be proven wrong, and hope revo grows by leaps and bounds. Just got off the phone with Cliff, and he is as disgusted as I am. Again, just ranting, hope everyone stays SAFE and has FUN, because all BS aside, that's what this is supposed to be all about.
-
I just drove 12 hours to a match that had 2 revos, other guy bailed to production, so it was just me. This 8 shot BS will destroy revo, in my opinion, those that don't have them will no longer shoot revo. Sorry to rant, but to me, this is USPSA's version of nobammacare, "let's pass it, so we can see what's in it" then and only then will we see how stupid an idea it really was. People that had absolutely no idea about revo shooters or revo division voted on it (just like guvmnt) it was implemented without any thought at all ( let's scrap some classifiers, now add them back) and the surprise, surprise new 929 will be the answer to all our ills (just like the exchanges) but no one can get one and they are about 200% overpriced. Is it just me, or does anyone else see the similarities here??? I love shooting revo, and will continue to do so, but Area 6 this year may very well be my last ever Level 3 and forget ever going to Nats again. I'll just stick to 6 Division in ZSA and maybe shoot 8 Division for fun with my 327. My USPSA Club (NC 29) will continue to strive to get new shooters into the sport, but let's face it, the new guys with 686's or Ruger GP's and speedloaders, won't go revo if someone shows up with an 8 shot. That ends my rant, now to get ready to spend all the time and $$ to shoot Area 6 in revo, to have what little fun is left, with whoever stays in the Division. be SAFE and have Fun guys, hope our new USPSA Pres. gets rid of this idea (hint, hint Jack)
-
-
I've seen new shooters at a local match that were going to run out of ammo on a stage with a lot of steel and either picked up a dropped mag or pulled a mag off of my belt (if they were running the same gun) so they can finish the stage. The shooter is already going to finish dead last on the stage. They are more likely to return if they enjoy the match instead of running out of ammo before they finish the stage. Maybe I should have been given a procedural.
Normally how I call stuff, in my humble opinion, it's far better to use some judgement and keep a first time shooter coming back, then just issuing Procedurals all around, as the book states. 2 weeks ago, I was pulled over for doing 64 in a 55 by the NCHP, the Trooper knew I was not a "New Driver" and I had broken the rule, but I was polite, as was he, and he gave me a warning instead of a ticket, end result, I watch my speed much more closely now, thanks to him, just sayin'
-
That's why I've always loved shooting revo, 6 and go, now that is all screwed up with 8 shot revo, I'm still just now getting over those CRAZY 8 round 1911 mags!!! I miss the old days!!!!
-
I trim to .810" with Fed and Rem brass, and crimp the crap out of Berrys 158's with a Dillon 9MM taper crimp
-
Jealousy an irrational emotion with little to no basis in fact. If you enjoy shooting and/with movement, USPSA and IDPA are damned fine games. Taking either too seriously (unless you are a Dave Sevigney, Rob Lathem, Jerry Miculek or some other shooter with more than just a passing interest in having some fun) is done at the individual shooters peril.
I'm certainly not foolish enough to think all shooters in USPSA would embrace the idiocincratic nature of IDPA as would IDPA shooters embrace the idiocincratic nature of USPSA. What amazes me is that, after all these years, the disenchanted from both camps (IDPA/USPSA) have not created some other game that addresses the complaints present in both camps, with the potential to rival the memberships of these two games.
Actually Tom , I did, just over 3 years ago. It's called ZSA, it was formed for new shooters to SAFELY get into competitive shooting while having FUN. While we cater to the newer shooters, our matches are attended by USPSA "M"'s and "GM"'s all the time.
-
Won't be there this year Mike, still owe you a good smoke or 2. Come to NC sometime and shoot with us. Best of luck, John Z.
-
Exactly what ZSA was started for, give it a try
We have a rule paragraph, no problems at all with it, and we are now in our 4th year and Coast to Coast, not re inventing the wheel, just making it roll better.
-
I give up, you win, your conversational skills are unmatched and above reproach.
very well played Bob!!!
-
It's simple, all we need is for 7,000,000 "young healthy not sick people" to sign up and start shooting 8 shot minor, (just think of the economic boost and all that 11% Federal Excise Tax that can be used for stuff by the guvmnt) you will all see how great it is, sorry, I am not usually this politically sarcastic and annoying this early with only 1 cup coffee in me, should be a fine day!! Love to everyone that shoots revo, 6 or 8, can't we all "just get along"???
-
Sorry, this just reminds me of "let's pass it so we can see what's in it"
-
I would like to put this out there and will follow it up with emails to Phil and others.
I would like to respectfully request that the recently pulled classifiers be reinstated for clubs and matches with no revolver shooters. I run a club that shoots at an indoor range year round. We have a bay of limited size, decent size but limited, and all shots must go into the trap/backstop downrange. There are a couple more clubs locally with the same issues. I do understand why the classifiers were pulled but in the case of my club and 2 others locally this results in the majority of the classifiers we can run in our bays being taken out of circulation. I think I am down to maybe 5 classifiers I can run right now and only 2 of them have not been run by our club or another local club recently (we have many of the same shooters so we try to work together and stagger classifiers). If classifiers were coming out regularly and I knew we would have a new batch, say in 6 months, this would be a non-issue. When we are looking at new classifiers only coming out every 4-6 years and out of those maybe having 4 we can use indoors then this creates a problem and a severe limitation on keeping the club running and shooters interested. Lets be honest here, while El Prez is a good drill and a classic nobody really likes shooting it as a classifier every 4 months and it has been shot to death.
I do understand and agree with the decision from the national level to pull the classifiers but I also believe that the removal should only apply to the affected division. If these classifiers cannot be reinstated then I would request that NROI and the board take special measures to get some new or updated classifiers into the system ASAP and not another 4 years.
Sincerely,
Chris Briggs
President GA22 - North Atlanta Action Shooters
Excellent point, thank you for the post
-
Well I shot my 627 and a local USPSA match today. It may end up 6 shot friendly at the Nationals but at the club level and at this match the 8 shooter ruled. It was a lot of arrays of 8 that were all hidden away so that they could not be seen anywhere else. I saved a minimum of 7 standing reloads and was able to miss once on a plate rack without it costing a reload. out of 127 shots I fired 120 Alphas and 7 Charlies plus 30 steel. I was able to out shoot my friend that was running his open gun, I could not have done it with a 6 shooter. I think we will see some matches where the 6 can hold it;s own but then there will be matches where an 8 shooter being run in an ICORE frame of mind will kill the 6. Longer, harder shots where the minor scoring can really hurt may help to close the gap between the 2 and with the right stage design the 6 shooter scoring major would come out on top. It's going to be all about stage design deciding which gun can come out on top.
Great points Gregg, I found pretty much the exact same thing last weekend. My humble opinion is that depending on stage design and who is setting up the match, it sucks that the 6vs8 will come down to stage design. Everyone will have to bring 2 guns to the matches and see which will work better that day.
more participation @ big matches? Just an observation
in Revolver Forum
Posted
Thanks Mike, cigars at the registration table for all !!!