SteveZ
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Posts posted by SteveZ
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We haven't been selling primers like we use to, which is puzzling because our prices haven't changed.
Or....its a sign that people are finding better deals elsewhere?
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I'll ask then...whats the point?
The benefit of asking is two-fold. Sometimes a question to John, or a Board member, results in a Ruling being developed and published on USPSA.org to plug up a previously unrealized hole in an existing rule. Or, in the case of a rule that doesn't contain a loophole but is just widely misunderstood, a Clarification is published in Front Sight.
No argument there from me...I was thinking more in the very short term timeframe rather than the long term. eg... "Hey John, my club has a stage this weekend that is a long COF and they've got shooting boxes in it....is that legal per 1.1.5.1? I can't exactly figure out if shooting boxes as used in 1.1.5.1 applies to all COF's in a Level I match...or short/medium COF's? Can you provide a clarification for me?"
WRT the above discussion I had with JA in 2006....John pointed out that having your finger in the trigger guard after inserting the magazine and before chambering a round was a DQ. As head of the NROI, I took his word for it.
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John's response.
Chuck,
If you will note, Steve is talking about a response I sent to him in 2006, we were operating under different rules then and my response fit those rules, however, an email as pointed out in the new rules Q&A from July of 2009, does not make a ruling, only the rules and an NROI official ruling through the proper procedure is accepted.
The section on sight pictures today, reads totally different than in 2006, under today’s rules there is nothing wrong with a loaded sight picture. If it goes off, it’s on the competitor.
John
With regard to loading/loaded and sight pictures...I don't see much has changed between 2004 and 2008 with respect to putting your finger in the trigger guard AFTER inserting a magazine. In Johns email from 2006, he indicated that "loading" was defined as the time from when the magazine was inserted to when a round was chambered and that inserting your finger in the trigger guard during that time was a DQ'able offense. But......an email does not equal a rule...so I'll just disregard the entire conversation I had with John back in 2006 because his email is irrelevent. OK, I guess that by that logic, asking for Johns input on anything is simply Johns view and has no bearing....until it becomes an official NROI ruling.
I'll ask then...whats the point?
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If the rules didn't change, there is not really anything to have a different "view" on?
Having had many discussion with John in the past (Hi John!!!), I'm expecting the same response today that I received back in 2006. You're right Jake...nothing in the rules (with regards to this situation) has changed between 2006 and today.
When I wrote to John back in 2006, I wasn't trying to argue the point one way or the other...I was simply seeking the "right thing to do" if the situation happened. When I teach IPSC101 classes and the discussion about sight pictures comes up...I always tell them, if you do load the gun....DON'T put your finger in the trigger guard unless your gun doesn't have a decocker and pressing the trigger is the ONLY way to lower the hammer (which we all know about the exception in the rule book).
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I emailed John and copied the thread. I'm not sure which rules have changed since 2006 and don't know if his answer to you would apply any more. We'll see what he says.
Hi Chuck...yeah the rule numbers are the same from 2006 but John may have a different view on things now. It will be interesting to hear what he has to say these days about the issue.
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If you want email Amidon and print out his reply saying you can do it. The bottom line is it's allowed under the rules.
I'm not so sure you're going to get the answer your looking for. The following is a discussion I had with Amidon about this in 2006 (under the then current rule book):
SJZ: If a shooter is given the LAMR and during their sight picture process, sticks a loaded magazine into the gun (which under the second part of 10.5.13 is the definition of a "loaded" gun) and then goes back to their
sight picture routine and then places their finger in the trigger guard, are they then DQ'ed under 10.5.9 (finger in trigger guard while loading....)?
AMIDON: Steve, As you indicated, 10.5.13 gives the definition of a loaded gun, magazine inserted with a live round in it, does not have to be in the chamber, but under the load and make ready command, the loading process would not be complete until there is a round in the chamber even though the gun is specifically considered loaded with the mag inserted with a live round in it.
SJZ: OK..three questions follow:
SJZ: 1) if the shooter is given the LAMR command, draws their gun and places their finger in the trigger guard (sight picture/dry fire routine). They're not DQ'ed under 10.5.9 because the "loading" process hasn't begun (because they haven't placed a magzine in the gun yet?)
AMIDON: Correct, and they are following the RO's orders.
SJZ: 2) if the shooter is given the LAMR command, places a magazine into the gun (which commences the "loading" process) but hasn't chambered a round yet, and then places their finger in the trigger guard, they would be DQ'ed under 10.5.9 because their finger is in the trigger guard during the "loading" process (which ends when they chamber a round)?
AMIDON: Correct.
SJZ 3) and now the biggie. Shooter is given the LAMR command, places a magazine into the gun....chambers a round (which terminates the "loading" process). Puts their finger on the trigger...and while taking a sight picture....fires a round into a target. Are they DQ'ed and if so under which rule? The loading process has finished (round is in the
chamber) so 10.5.9 wouldn't apply anymore.
AMIDON: They would DQ'd, using rule 10.4.3, as rule 8.3.1 is not completed until the competitor assumes the start position, but the COF has started by issuing this command.
AMIDON: This will be addressed in the new rules to help make it as clear as possible, that a shot fired prior to the commencement of the COF, is a DQ.
According to Amidon (in 2006...maybe his opinion has changed since then), the "loading" process starts when you insert a loaded magazine into the gun...and ends when you chamber a round. Unless things have changed...Amidon ruling doesn't seem to agree with Troy or George. If you ask for a NROI ruling...its going to come from John.
Edited for formatting....
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Grepping through the rule book...
You can always spot a linux guy...they don't use words in every day conversation like "searching" or "scanning"...they use....grep!
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The 4th Gen iPhone is going to be released on June 22....can you wait?
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I figured when you said you were shooting production this year that you would just put your magazines in both back pockets, lol.
That was the plan...but a few local diehard production shooters shamed me into buying a few. My entry into production is a one year experiment...next year I'm going back to Limited.
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I'll be there....shooting Production.
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Sounds like he got it. Now you can have some fun!
Yup...looking forward to trying it out. Did you figure out how to get your ejector back in?
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Steve,
JPL fitted mine to my frame for me also. It was extremely tight when new - and this is to a new frame that I bought to build it up.
Albert
Per TacSol's request, I turned this project over to JPL to have him take a look at it and here is his response....
I measured it out and painted contact surfaces up and checked where it was tight and by how much. The TS slide was about .7575 and the frame is about .757. When I set it up in the mill I dial indicated it to “0” at the back inside of the slot and at the first cutout for the recoil plug. It ran plus about a thou and a half on the left side and I cut about .0015 off of that side. I then turned it around and dialed the other slot. It was “0” at the back and “0” at the front, but ran about +.0035 in the middle, starting about and inch in from the rear. That’s right where it would stick on your frame. Not any more!!! It’s tricky getting your slide stop out of the frame, past the slide on the TS, you have to have it lined up perfect or the tab hangs up.
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I talked with the people at TacSol today and after explaining the situation...they seem hesitant to do any machining to the slide to make it work. They asked if there was someone locally that could help me out. I'm going to explore that (JPL)...and if that falls through, its back to TacSol to see where I go from there.
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Take the slide only, not the ejector from the kit. Put the slide only on the frame. If it wont fall all the way back on it's only weight, then you will need to lap it to the frame a little bit.
Right now, mine won't move on the frame without some serious outside help (me!). If I retract the slide to the rear, the recoil spring doesn't have enough force to return the slide forward either (probably no surprise there, if it won't move by its own weight, the spring isn't enough to return the slide into battery).
My question was that if you lap this kit to the frame, what does it do to the fit of your other slide?
Thats what I'm concerned with...if it laps in my frame, I'll lose my tight (and desirable) slide to frame fit of the normal slide.
I'm going to take some measurements of my frame and their slide and give them a call today and see if they recommend machining of the slide...or just shoot it until it works.
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Check your ejector. I've played with several brands of conversions, not the tacsol though, and a lot of times the ejector was rubbing.
Hi Corey...I don't think its the ejector...becuause its tight to the frame before the back of the slide gets anywhere near the ejector....good idea though.
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I just received a TacSol 2011 22 Conversion for my STI Edge. I tried to install it on my frame and the thing is TIGHT I mean really TIGHT. Even after lubing up the rails of the frame, it takes considerable effort to cycle the "slide" part of the conversion by hand. My Edge frame is hardchromed and my frame to slide fit is very nice but I don't think the hardchrome alone would account for this. So my question is this for those of you who purchased TacSol 2011 conversions for use on S_I frames....did you find yours was really TIGHT in the beginning and did it eventually loosen up after break in or did you have to machine the rails of the conversion unit to get it to work. I'm hoping that after the black anodizing on the rails wears off, it will reciprocate a bit easier.
I'm guess the break in period is going to be many hundred rounds of "fire one...eject one....fire one...eject one".
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It doesn't matter if the AD hit the berm or not (however if it goes over the berm, there is no further discussion). I've seen ADs go into the berm when the shooter clearly wasn't engaging any target...I've seen round go into the berm when the shooter let one go a little earlier than they had anticipated. One is clearly a DQ...the other one....well, in truth it was probably not intended...but its would be hard to call DQ on it as the shooter could simply say they were engaging the target...and got a really surprised break...and missed.
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Again, I'm not sure. I could be totally wrong about the house. There are a few guys from that club on this board, so I'm sure they'll chime in shortly. ari B
I'm a member at MRC. Accidently shooting the house isn't a DQ....AD'ing into the house is. I can't tell from the video what happened so I won't comment but I have been in the position of being an RO and had this happen....its a tough call to make because the shooter could claim that they were "engaging" the target..especially when the round hits the berm. If there is any doubt in my mind...I won't make the call....if its clear that they weren't engaging a target when the "AD" happened, I would.
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we keep this on the topic of the Area 1 match
You're right Chuck...we should keep this on topic of the Area 1 match (my appologies to Tim)....and I don't think anyone meant to be trashing Don....I think we're just getting a little tired of all of the RP saturation around here. No matter where you turn...its there. I hope Brian is getting advertising fees for each person that has "contact me about RP discounts" in their sig.
The BE forum used to be a great place to hang around.....today I'm not so sure ...and consequently, I don't.
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Can I start advertising for the company I work for.....because it looks like everyone else around here is!
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Apps you are going to want.
Ok..I'll add my list: Skype, TextPlus (free text messages!!), System Activity Monitor (great for terminating battery killing zombie processes), PocketMoney (checkbook), Ballistic (wish it include pistol loads rather than just rifle loads), SpeedTest (nice for seeing how fast a wifi connection is), TripCase (good for travel), WeatherChannel, Wikipedia, Mixology.....to name a few (and I only run a few).
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Really don't have the time or space to build more props just for one stage.
What do you think of it now? I've eliminated the "have to stay seated part". Added taller NS so that if you stand you still have several "views".
Any time you have a COF which allows the shooter to move or find a "sweet spot" (i.e. location) and engage all of the targets, its illegal. It doesn't matter that you are not requiring them to sit...if they can sit and shoot all of the targets (or stand and shoot all of the targets) from a single location. It's illegal. The rule says "nor allow a competitor to shoot all
targets in the course of fire from any single location or view". If you have either/OR can be accomplished...its illegal.
The one way you can get around this at a level I match (and this come direclty from Amidon) is to throw a mandatory reload into the COF. Per Amidon this "separates" the two arrays. As an example, if you had 8 poppers and 4 paper and a single box and the COF went "From Box A, engage PP1 - PP8 perform a mandatory reload and engage T1 - T4"...that would be legal.
If you took your COF, dropped the steel plate, threw a madatory reload into it and had them engage the left side of COF and then the right side with a reload inbetween, itd be OK.
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My house has 3 semi-permanent full USPSA targets spaced 1 yard apart for dry-fire
Same here...I have about 5 targets in my family room for dryfire practice. They've just become part of the decor.
The one interesting instance was when my neighbor was applying for a job with the border patrol. Part of the process is having the FBI interview references you provide and my neighbor gave them my name. Of course the agent showed up unannounced. He never did once comment on the targets.
Oooh, what she doesn't know won't kill her.But if she did find out...it might kill YOU...and I know your phone number!
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Equally strange was the announcement that they are selling MV Agusta less than a year after buying them.
111 shooters... for a local IDPA match
in IDPA Shooting
Posted
Many shooting oriented programs these days (TV/podcast) encourage new shooters to seek out competition as a means to improve their skills....IDPA seems to be the game most frequently suggested perhaps because the equipment requirements are a little easier than USPSA Production and the stages seems to be a bit more "constructed" (i.e. go here...shoot these)....so I think this maybe a factor why we're seeing new shooters at matches.