[Need some suggestions]

Do you have a wooded area..? I have done what I call blind stages.

I give them a little write up, sit-rep. and off in the woods with you.

For example...............

Situation

You are an Operator in a hunter killer counter Terrorist team.

A group of Terrorists Had a Botched an attempt at robbing a bank, they wounded several innocent people, and took hostages. As they made a quick unorganized exit from the bank.

The Police have chased them in a high speed pursuit and after disabling their vehicle.

The Terrorists have run in to the woods, following the trail of Pink survey tape.. Trying to make their escape.

Follow the trail, and eliminate the hostels. The terrorists are warring body armor so you will have to make head shots. The heads MUST FALL!

If they have OPEN hands, they are a Friendly! Do not shoot the friendly’s.

Load 4 shells in you shotgun. And nod your head when ready.....................................

I have made the target stands, low, and put a tee shirt on the body, the plate is the head.

Friend and foe, is determined by open hands made of cardboard.

That way they still have to think, and then shoot.

and mark the trail well, but not too well. make them find it. and the targets. and think abouut shoot no shoot.

and 4 rounds in the gun, makes it even.

J M ammo

[3 Gun matches in IDPA format?]

I started 3 Gun at our club, about 5 years ago.

We use IDPA targets and scoring. More or less.

It works Great! Scoring is fast and easy. And you don’t need a computer or an accountant to do it.

5 classes so you can bring what you have and still play, but don’t have to shoot against an Open guy,

I’ll attach a score sheet, it prints out ok,, but looks strange in digits.

It will not attach. If you e-mail me, I'll send it to you,,, it is kind of self explanatory.

Jim M ammo

[Side saddle ammo holder]

Thanks for the great feed back.

As it goes Shotgun wise I go for the saddle, the arm holder the chest holder, the 20 rounds on the belt.

And can put different shells as needed wherever they might be necessary.

Thanks again,, for helping me get my stuff together.

Jim M ammo

[Side saddle ammo holder]

I just received the 2006 Multi Gun Nationals, super squad Video.

It was very good!

I got to see what level of things I may have gotten myself into come OCT 07.

The one thing I noticed is that for Tactical and Limited.

None of the shooters on the video used a side saddle.

I know loading 4 at a time with the weak hand is fast (unless your weak hand is stupid like mine)

So for the rest of us, having the saddle right next to the load-em up whole, would be fast

Is their some Nationals rule against side saddles???

That I missed?

Jim M ammo

[AR-15Timney Trigger AR-15 Drop-In Drop-In]

Depending on where you might buy one the price varies greatly$135.00 up to $200.00?

I would love to know where you found these for $135?

Cheaper than dirt, says they are on back order, and they have a block you can put your e-mail address in to get the update when they get them.

Jim M ammo

[AR-15Timney Trigger AR-15 Drop-In Drop-In]

Timney Trigger AR-15 Drop-In

I’m going to get a trigger for my AR.

I heard Timney just came out with one.

Depending on where you might buy one the price varies greatly$135.00 up to $200.00?

I like a JP, but with the time it takes to put in, I can make some judgment calls,

JP has a drop in, but it is pricy.

Chip Mc is up their too $$

Does anyone have one?

What do you think?

Jim M ammo

[Maximum Range For Steel Targets?]

One other regular feature of UK matches is that we will push metal targets way out to say 35 yards and give competitors an opportunity to get up as close as they like (subject to minimum safety distances). However, we try to create a possible advantage by saving time by not getting close, often by presenting a more economic movement to another part of the stage.

We leave it to the competitor to know and understand their gun, their choking and their ammo. The competitor has to analyse how close they must get to successfully take the target against the background of the time cost.

We try to create an easy but time-expensive opportunity and a difficult but quick solution as well. I've seen many a shooter get caught with their trousers down by opting for the wrong choice.

Viva "freestyle"!

Decision making, and all that, How evil! I like It.

I have on occasion, had the shooter read the blind stage brief, with a lead in about you are on your way to the range and have come across a kidnapping in progress. Blaa blaa blaa.. the last line in the brief is “do you understand?”

Say yes.

They say yes and the buzzer goes off.!!!!!!!! Most are not ready. I see

All kinds of fun stuff, some folks just look at you,

Some folks have a box of ammo in their hand. And look at you like Hey aren’t you going to hold the box so I can load my gun?

But they get it sooner or later and they are all, Assholes and elbows!

Getting in gear and into the stage.

I like getting these new ideas. Thanks!!

Jim M ammo

[Maximum Range For Steel Targets?]

No Jim, it was not your match. However i've just returned from very nice match in U.K. that incorporates things that we here in the U.S. don't use. If you want to CHALLENGE your shooters, use no shoot steel, next to shoot steel just like we do with paper targets.

Generally, they are about 2 to 3 inches apart, sometimes they overlap, and the distances can be anywhere from 7 to 15yds away. This is done quite abit using plates.

Trapr

Interesting!!!!!

I have used no shoots, on a blind stage,, But I put cardboard open hands on them.

I'll have to play with the close together no shoot, thing.

thanks!

Jim M ammo

[3 Gun Survey]

Copperas Cove Pistol club

Texas

http://groups.yahoo.com/search?query=coppe...ove+pistol+club

12 Matches a year,

5 Stages.

22+ shooters each month.

Rounds per match

Pistol 50+

Shotgun 30+

Rifle 40+

Jim

M ammo

If you need more info

Call me

254-702-4582

[3 Gun Survey]

Copperas Cove Pistol club

Texas

http://groups.yahoo.com/search?query=coppe...ove+pistol+club

12 Matches a year,

5 Stages.

22+ shooters each month.

Rounds per match

Pistol 50+

Shotgun 30+

Rifle 40+

Jim

M ammo

If you need more info

Call me

254-702-4582

[Multigun Nationals, who's going?]

Yes Doug,,, we are still all good. Just out of excitement, I might have to call the hotel every week, just to ask.

I now have a truck,, a 4 door one,, 8 foot bed,,

No problem, we have all the room to bring whatever we want.

I’m working on all my stuff, this father’s day I just built a 3 tier barricade, to practice around.

I’m making some pistol shotgun targets, Static steel on Tuesday.

And will have my range, all set for some real practice.

I got some rifle ammo worked out yesterday; I’m up to 161.4 power factor,

I’ll bump it up .5 of a grain more just so I can get things flying a bit flatter, for the long stuff.

We will have to get to togther and practice. Soon,

I’m getting itchy about the nationals already.

I'm in - can't wait. All I got in the way of confirmation was a note acknowledging receipt of payment and listing some of the area hotels.

I got my, conformation. And a hotel reservation. I'm also doing all my home work getting all of my equipment ready.

This says you’re from Belton TX????!!!

DO I know you?

CCPC

Jim M ammo

Jim,

It's me - Doug J.

We're still traveling & staying together right - currently no deployment during this time-frame.

Welcome to the forum by the way.

Doug

[Does anyone have a Load for .223 60GrVMax]

Thanks for the feed back. I loaded up some test loads and I’ll be off to the crony.

23.5 and 24.0 of 4895, that will give me an Idea of how high I have to go.

And of course I don’t want to blow out brass or the gun.

As I’ve been looking over the loading data, I find that they are using up 24 inch barrels. For testing.

So burn rate is, the issue, Like I said I’m shooting this in my 3 Gun AR so a Mushroom cloud coming out of the muzzle break, looks real cool,, but doesn’t help me make double taps.

I’m setting my guns up to shoot the 3 gun nationals, and from looking at the range in Tulsa, ( Google maps) they have a max range of 300. So I do expect some real rifle shooting for one stage, every thing else should be, in the under 200 category, I’ll plan for the worst and hope for the best.

Jim M ammo

I'm working up a load, and am trying to save some time, and or find out if it is possible to get a 60 Gr V-max to go 2800 FPS out of a 16 inch barrel?

If not what powder might I try to get to that FPS. I have 4895 and Varget on hand.

The 16 inch Barrel is on my AR and I'm working up a load that will make 150 + power factor, and give good minimum drop ballistics.

Any Help would be great.

Jim M ammo

I have used 25.7 gr of H4895 and get around 2800 feet with 55 gr Sierra BlitzKing bullets with a 16" barrel. I think sierra 5 ed. list 26.1 as max load w/ H4895 in bolt action. I also use VV N540 with good results as well as Varget. I think you would have better luck with Varget as sierra list 27.1 gr as max load (out of 20" barrel) w/ 60 SIE HP bullet. OAL = 2.250" Varget and N540 dont heat up the barrel as much as 4895 does as well.

As far as ballistics, the drop is going to be about the same lighter/faster v. heavy(69gr.+)/slow out to 300 yards. the only advantage to heavy bullet is in wind drift by maybey 2"+ at 300 yards. its windy were i shot, so i use the 69 gr. bullets.

[Does anyone have a Load for .223 60GrVMax]

I'm working up a load, and am trying to save some time, and or find out if it is possible to get a 60 Gr V-max to go 2800 FPS out of a 16 inch barrel?

If not what powder might I try to get to that FPS. I have 4895 and Varget on hand.

The 16 inch Barrel is on my AR and I'm working up a load that will make 150 + power factor, and give good minimum drop ballistics.

Any Help would be great.

Jim M ammo

[Maximum Range For Steel Targets?]

Bronco, you have brought up a old wound, that had long been forgotten. THANKS ALOT I was actually refering to a different match that happened more recently, and I did not have a problem., but many others did, it actually got to the point that the RO said if you just hit the popper it will be OK, boy did I want a reshoot then, i'd have removed the tighter choke i'd used to insure popper downing, and hosed the crap out of the stage. See ya soon buddy.

Trapr

That steal going down.. It wasn’t at one of my matches was it?

I Copperas Cove TX?

Some times the steel is hard to get down.

I do set up some Blind stages, in the woods that you have to read, a short description, and follow a path in the cider tree / bushes, marked by hanging colored tape,,, and knock the targets down.

I know I have a special place in hell, I’m going to, for some of the stages I come up with.

But I have the steel hanging, on swinger, type stands, the hanging plates are different sizes. And I put tee shirts over them. So you can find the target, in the woods, it has a shirt on it,, but a casual pop shot, may not get it to go down. They are light, and you can shoot them pretty close, if you run up on one, seeing they flip right back when you hit one.

It makes people have to get to know their Shotgun, and how it performs.

And get away from a thought that one shot will stop anything.

Jim M ammo

[USPSA Tactical shotgun, div MAx rounds?]

If you use a benelli, you can get 8 in the mag & ghost load one onder the carrier for 9 total if you start with an empty gun. Everything else is only 8.

Hey Benny I got the Tube,, Thanks,,, fast delivery as well.

The tube extends about 3 1/4 inch last the end of the barrel.

Shooting Tactical, or limited, am I legal for the nationals.

With the rules at our Club,, we don't car how many rounds fit in the tube, When I write the stage you only get the load 2 to 4 rounds, to start, after the buzzer, it's all you.

I get much love for some of the stages, I put people through.

Thanks for the rifle tips too.

Jim M ammo

[Multigun Nationals, who's going?]

I'm in - can't wait. All I got in the way of confirmation was a note acknowledging receipt of payment and listing some of the area hotels.

I got my, conformation. And a hotel reservation. I'm also doing all my home work getting all of my equipment ready.

This says you’re from Belton TX????!!!

DO I know you?

CCPC

Jim M ammo

[USPSA Tactical shotgun, div MAx rounds?]

One thing to remember about USPSA....when they say 8+1......they mean just that. you can not EVER stick 9 in the tube during a course of fire (or you get an invite to OPEN class). This is different than IMGA rules.....where sometimes, you can load 9 in the tube, empty chamber, or after the buzzer goes load up as many as you want.

That being said......yes get a tube that will hold 9 rounds in the tube (+5 for remington, +6 for benelli) THEN, when you go to a USPSA match....stick a plug in the tube to limit you to 8+1. This will save your spring if you use a plug that goes inside the spring (like the factory plug does). I hate to see springs go to solid height as they wear out REALLY fast that way.

Hope this helps ya!!

Tim

PS......a 2 3/4" trap load may very well measure 2 1/2" in length before you shoot it......that 2 3/4" number is the length of the shell AFTER you get the lead out!!!

Ok 8 and 1... I just watched the DVD from Matt Burkett.

In the video, he talked about many, rules, from different, organizations.

I signed up to go to the 3 gun Nationals, a USPSA event.

And I’m getting my equipment, right to meet their rules, (it’s kind of a pain in the *&^%$)

Do you know of any rule about how long the mag extension, can go out past the end of the barrel? I have heard different stories.

[DPMS LR 308]

Everyone, please contact Benny to make your custom 30 round magazines.

Anything that takes a lot of time and keeps him from practicing is a good thing.

Erik

I tried to call him at his shop today. But the answering machine was the only thing home.

He must have been busy making those mags.

Jim

[USPSA Tactical shotgun, div MAx rounds?]

If you use a benelli, you can get 8 in the mag & ghost load one onder the carrier for 9 total if you start with an empty gun. Everything else is only 8.

Thanks,, that keeps me right. I have the DVD from Matt Burkett. The shotgun one,, and they were talking about, barrel length, and how far the tube can, be out past the barrel.. And it got more confusing from their.

I have an M-1 Benelli.

After talking to Mark O from your shop,, he says you have everything.

Do you have, the tube I need?

M ammo

[USPSA Tactical shotgun, div MAx rounds?]

The ability to get 2.5" shells into the gun is not really worth it, look up Nordic Components, and order a new mag tube. or PM, Tim aka TRUBL. Get one that will allow you one more round in the gun than the rules allow, so that should an empty gun start be required, you still can get 9 into the gun to start. most rules for other matches simply state round capacity at the start of the COF, and do not require the gun to be plugged for only 8 in the tube.

Trapr

I'm new to this, type of forum, and I'm not sure how to get hold of Tim aka TRUBL. To buy the right tube.

I do like your 9 round, comment, it makes sense. With the buck shot I use, they are a little longer, and I get one less in with them.

Another question. I’ve said before, I'm not new to 3 gun,, but new to USPSA 3 gun, what is the shot size limit for USPSA?

I usually go with, bird, 00 Buck, and slugs that have covered all my needs.

I signed up to shoot the Nationals. And I want to try and have all the bases covered.

A popper at 30+ yards. With bird,,,, ?? You know what I mean.

M ammo

[DPMS LR 308]

I am doing a similar thing but using a DPMS AP4 as the starting point. I too will be reloading for it. SO I am interested in the responses you get.

I am using YHM front and rear folding sights with a MS Match Fiber Optic front pin. I also went with the DPMS rifle length railed handguard which allowed the front sight to be moved forward increasing sight radius.

I put in a JP trigger and a Miculek comp. It doesn't kick that much different from a non-comped .223 but sure is loud. I haven't shot for groups yet but I can wack the poppers at 200 with irons no problem with 150 gr Federal or WW ball ammo. I do plan to add a scope for working up a good reload in the future.

I don't know of any 30 rd mags for it yet. I haven't looked since I plan on shooting HM where over 20 rd are not allowed.

----------------------------------

I don’t plan on shooting it with Iron sights at all.

I got a Barska 1.5X4.5 with Mil dots, the price is right, in the $100 ish,,, range,

I’ll have to do all the math, but the mil dots, will get me out to 300-400. and I probably can’t see part that, but that will make this the tool I need for the Tac Pro Tactical 3 Gun match. And for any other shooting need for 400 in to point blank.

I like to shoot steel plates.

My other AR runs great, and shoots better than I can hold it. 40 round mags, a low power scope and I’m ready to go. For just about all my shooting needs.

Tac Pro has some real,, rifle stages. Some of them have been, Blind stages, and once the buzzer goes off, you have to run what you brung.

A 20+ MPH cross wind, and gusts, just to make it fun, whooped my but,,, and the 60 GR V-max got pushed all over, and when I hit the steel, it was hard to see.

SO I’m working on it. I'll let you know what,,, I get it to do..

M ammo

[DPMS LR 308]

I’m putting together a DPMS LR-308

The 18 inch heavy barrel version.

I would like to know if someone who might be working with one already. And has worked out the bugs?

What type of ammo, does it like? I’ll reload for it, and am wondering in specific. How big a bullet it will take fit and feed in the magazine?

And what weight bullet, is the best balance between. Recoil and holding accuracy at 300?

I like to shoot the Tac Pro tactical match. (With optics) and am looking to have this gun ready for that type of match, the 8 inch plates at 250-300 in some serious cross wind has given me problems in the past. I’m trying to get this tool ready for that job.

And just one more thing,, does anyone know if DPMS or anyone is thinking of making a 30 round Magazine that will fit a DPMS in 308? That would be great!

Thanks M ammo

[USPSA Tactical shotgun, div MAx rounds?]

Noah nailed the rule. The key is how fast you can get the next eight in.

That is no lie,,, I have to see if I can, do that four in the left hand. and plug them in that way. It looks fast, but maybe not for me... the weak hand is,,,, dumb too.

I'll have to put together some 12ga dummy loads and see what I can do with that technique.

[USPSA Tactical shotgun, div MAx rounds?]

I’m new to this forum, but not new to 3 Gun,

I have not shot USPSA 3 gun. I have shot tactical matches. And I started 3 Gun at our Club, in Texas; we have been shooting them for 5 years now, we have our own rules, so I am, not up to speed on all of the USPSA rules.

My question is about shotgun, in the Tactical division. How many rounds are allowed in your shotgun? I can’t seem to get an answer.

I have 7 and 1 now. And want to know if I need to make any adjustments. To be leagal, and be able to keep up with the USPSA 3 gun. Folks,

.

Thanks M ammo