Thomas H
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Posts posted by Thomas H
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On 3/25/2024 at 10:53 PM, iboomer said:
No penalty in either case. There used to be rules against "shooting while holding a loading device" and "staging a loading device." Both rules were deleted. Let's move on.
If you can't specify a rule number to justify a penalty, then there is no penalty.
Yes, I agree. Which doesn't change the fact that a LOT of people disagree with that set of statements, including cases where they give procedural penalties for it.
So my questions about those situation were for the people who are attempting to claim that there SHOULD be a penalty---I want them to justify it with a rule. I'm aware that there isn't one, and people who agree with that don't have to say anything. I just want the people who keep trying to give penalties for things that are legal, to have to actually justify their "rulings" with actual rules.
This conversation IS needed because of those people--and as has been said numerous times, an official response from IDPA HQ would solve this problem quickly, IF we could get anyone to officially respond regarding rules.
The current "the rules depends on your geographic location because it depends on your AC" method is not working well.
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On 3/23/2024 at 8:09 AM, TerryW said:
In the March/April 2024 Front Sight, Zack gives his interpretation of the new rule changes. Zack's interpretation of Rule 5.1.5 was that if magazines are stored in separate compartments of your gun bag, you can't open those compartments after the "range is clear" command or before the "make ready" command. I am looking at this from the perspective of a RFPO shooter, The effect of this rule would be you can't use the magazine compartments on your gun bag, even if they are completely separated from the gun enclosure. You would need to have a separate bag for magazines. If you put your gun in a compartment in your range bag, does the RO have to hold back the "range is clear" command until you close every zipper on your gun bag. This seems to effectively make it impossible to use the magazine pouches on your gun bag, even though the magazine storage areas offer no access to the gun. Please say I am reading this wrong. This seems to be a ruling that will not increase safety, but just adds a level of inconvenience.
That's not how I'm reading it.
I'm reading it that for people who put their guns in a bag, where the INSIDE of that bag also has compartments for magazines, you shouldn't use those anymore because once the gun is inside a zippered compartment, that zipper doesn't open again for any reason other than in a safe area on on the line under RO supervision.
This isn't the same thing as a gun bag that has magazine compartments on the outside. Once the gun is zipped into the bag, THAT zipper stays untouched, but you can still get to everything else.
"Once the case is closed it is to remain closed unless opened in a safe area."
That is separate from magazines held in pouches or zippered compartments separate from where the gun is zipped into the bag.
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On 3/6/2024 at 6:47 PM, matteekay said:
This conversation is making the rounds on Facebook again.
It's wild to try to Google an answer only to find a thread that you started a year ago that still doesn't have a clear resolution (IMHO).
Yup....because people keep "adding" rules that aren't in the rulebook, or using rules that have been taken OUT of the rulebook, under the assumption that "they meant it THIS way."
So we still have all sorts of opinions that don't match what is in the current rulebook, and no one from IDPA HQ will answer an email to clarify.
Awesome.
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I personally think we should get rid of 8.1.8 and not worry about it at all. Add no new rules. Remove 8.1.8, because it is stupid and unnecessary.
Literally, before this point in time, we've had many, many people shooting their low-ready-start divisions while having a holstered centerfire pistol at the same time. Have we had issues? No, not really.
The people who do that are smart enough to holster for the one stage with movement (OL), and having a holstered pistol on the rest makes absolutely no difference at all, and is unsafe in no fashion whatsoever.
If they DON'T bag their centerfire gun on Outer Limits---yes, there is the chance that it might come out of the holster. And they get DQed. And that's on them. Let's be clear---the cleared, empty, hammer-down firearm in their holster falls out while they are shooting a different firearm. There's a DQ. And then they won't do it again. What's the problem?
There's literally no need to any rule about this in the first place, because there is no need for people to be required to bag a centerfire handgun while shooting a low-ready-start firearm.
Forcing people to bag is just going to be annoying to absolutely everyone. And take more time. (And before people say "it won't take much time" remember that this is ALSO the set of people who are down on rifles because it "takes so much longer for people to bag them.")
There's no need. No to mention that we can ALREADY see that people will be having problems with whatever wording the new rule will have.
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On 9/3/2023 at 6:55 PM, pskys2 said:
Great match, no gimmicks just shoot. Tom Howard ran away with high overall and top Limited, Juan Hernandez took high Open at 3rd overall and top Grand Senior, Military and LE, Joe Sutton was top L6 and Classic went to Jay McKeown. Top Lady was Kelly Brown (and we had 3 Lady's, a real good turnout), Mike Carmoney was top Senior at 2nd Overall and I snagged high Super Senior (and only had 1 Super Senior moment while RO'ing!)
Squad 3 was 50% Certified Range Officers, made the work load very easy and the day flew by.
A BIG THANKS to Don Rush and his Crew!
Glad you liked it!
Don came up with some good varied stages that tested a whole bunch of different skills at different times, which made for a fun match.
...we have a regular ICORE match coming up next Sunday (Sept 10th), for those who want to come up and shoot some more. And you can shoot 2 guns if you like!
https://practiscore.com/eastern-nebraska-icore-september-match/register
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13 minutes ago, RJH said:
I've seen pictures of Tim Herron's guns online and they are definitely 2011's
...which makes sense as his normal division is Single Stack. It would be odd for him NOT to use an SAO 2011.
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On 5/18/2023 at 4:26 PM, matteekay said:
That's my issue. It's great that they defined "stowed", but now it's only applicable to dropped loading devices as far as I can tell.
Exactly.
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2 hours ago, Racinready300ex said:
In the past I've been allowed to leave a position and leave the mag on the table what mags started. That was a gray area that was sometimes allowed sometimes not. I see they cleared that up in this rule book, but I bet it's still allowed sometimes.
Can you show me where that got cleared up in the rule book? I see the part that says you can drop a mag on the table if you are staying in that position, but I don't think I saw the part that cleared up whether or not you can leave mags behind if you never touched them and are leaving. What did I miss?
(I'll note that I think it is ridiculous to require people to pick up all mags, even if they aren't going to use them. They were on the table in the first place--shouldn't they automatically be able to be left there if you don't want them? It is certainly true that in the past, some matches made you pick them all up, and some matches said "they started there, they can stay there.")
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10 minutes ago, Racinready300ex said:
If you don't leave the position you can just drop the mag back on the table no need to catch it in your hand.
Yes, but that isn't the question.
You aren't staying at that position.
You've still got rounds in it, enough for the next array, so you head to the next array without reloading--you just bring a mag with you.
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On 5/12/2023 at 3:11 PM, rbx said:
Thomas,
I am looking for a reliable Gunsmith to assemble various available aftermarket parts to my specific liking. Someone who has done this before a few times specifically using a 10/22. I want to only shoot Steel Challenge with it.
That's all.
I break anything I touch...almost. Repairs/modifications that is.
If you already have the parts picked out that you want, you can probably just give it to any competent gunsmith and they can do it for you, though obviously one that has worked on competition guns before would probably be best. 10/22s are really easy to work with, and given how many parts are out there that have a ton of history, putting together a build isn't hard. (The hardest part is making sure the barrel is put in correctly. The rest is....surprisingly simple. I personally love 10/22s for that very reason.). With a 10/22, pick a barrel, stock, and trigger kit, and there's 90% of what will make the gun awesome, and any competent gunsmith can put those in for you. (If you want to add other stuff, VQ, TK, and TacCom makes literally drop-in parts for firing pins, better extractors, etc. And while a dedicated .22 'smith will do extras to smooth out areas and make it perfect, pretty much anyone can drop in those parts and make them work well. Again, to a really really surprising degree.)
If you are looking for someone who will pick OUT aftermarket parts to give you the feel and function you describe to them.....that's a lot harder. Contacting someone like Striplin will definitely give you the best results for something like that.
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My favorite version of this question is simple:
Unloaded start, magazines on the table.On the beep, you pick up a mag, load it into the gun, and shoot the first array. As you start moving to the second array, you pick up a magazine and hold it in your hand. You then shoot the second array (with the magazine in your hand), then reload using the magazine in your hand.
Given that you aren't starting the stage with magazines stowed, and there is no requirement during the stage to stow any magazine OTHER than if you drop one---is there anything about the described situation that is illegal?
Part II:
On a different stage, you shoot the first array and perform a tac reload, keeping the extra magazine (with ammo still in it) in your hand while you shoot the last three targets of the stage. As you have not dropped it, and have not left it behind, are you penalized for finishing the stage with it in your hand?
(In either case, if someone says there is a penalty, could you please point to the rule for said penalty?)
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On 5/11/2023 at 11:13 AM, rbx said:
Yes, I shoot the Challenge monthly. Again, I am looking for a builder with experience for a .22 custom rifle build.
I think the problem that people are having in terms of answering your question is "....for what?"
.22 custom rifle---for SC? Something else? Irons? Open? Are you looking for a 'smith to literally build something from scratch? Or are you wanting someone able to put together already-available parts to a coherent whole?
If it is the last, any average person can already do that on their own. (Aftermarket parts for 10/22s and such are readily available, and almost all of them are drop-in.)
And there are plenty of custom rifles are already available from places like ModShot, VQ, TacCom, etc in different configurations that you can order right away.
So it might help to clarify exactly what you want your custom builder to be able to do that you couldn't just directly get from any of the above sources, or that you couldn't do yourself easily. That way people will be able to give you more specific answers.
What do you need your custom rifle builder to be able to do for you?
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On 4/26/2023 at 12:11 PM, ysrracer said:
Thanks, can you share your load?
150gr FP Brass Monkey Bullets
3.7gr CFE Pistol
...not remembering my OAL at the moment, I'm not home so can't check (I'll come back and add it when I get home)...
Shot using two different 929s, 10 shots each, average V = 869.5 ft/s, Ave PF: 130.4
REALLY low recoil.
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8 hours ago, OSP737 said:
I shot at one club that says due to the recent rule changes, we can now reload once our magazine is empty but we still have a round in the chamber. We are dropping an empty magazine but we are not at slide lock. Another club said, nope, you have to be at slide lock with the magazine empty before you can reload. If the description of the scenario does not say "reload at slide lock, can we reload with a round in the chamber? I didn't think there was much difference, but after reloading a few times with a round in the chamber I really like doing it that way, where the situation fits. Opinions?
As someone has already said, the club that is telling you that the gun has to be completely empty is wrong.
In addition, with respect to the comment in bold: The WSB can't over-ride the rules. They can't tell you that you can only reload the gun at slide-lock. The rules say that the magazine must either be empty, or retained. That's it.
In addition, a WSB can't specifically require you to reload during a course of fire.
6.5.24 Reloads shall not be mandated in a Course of Fire. All mandated reloads, topping off, etc. must be performed off the clock.
The only way to make people reload at a certain point is to require them to start with a downloaded magazine. And they can't tell you what kind of reload to perform when you do so.
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13 hours ago, ysrracer said:
.38 Short Colt with a 160 grain Bayou Bullets 160gr RN. ??
What do you think?
I use CFE pistol with 150gr FP Brass Monkey Bullets in 9mm----really like it so far.
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1 hour ago, Joe4d said:
that just reinforces what I said,,, pass some bucks, use sub minor ammo,,, yet another turd in the $#!! show that is USPSA leadership... Special rules for special people been that way as long as I can remember. One set of rules for me, one for thee.
Anyone can use official match ammo. Buy some, and use it. You too can be special.
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On 4/22/2023 at 8:02 PM, BentAero said:
Works prefect, connects nearly instantly, and stays connected.
And that last part is really, really nice. (I've worked with some other tablets where it would drop connection periodically, which is annoying as heck, particularly if you are working a major match.)
The Fire tablets I've worked with, however---I don't think I've had more than a couple of dropped connections (mostly distance-related, from what I can tell) over many, many shooters.
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....never mind.
(Edited to remove post. Discussing factual situations with people who aren't basing their commentary on facts is a waste of time.)
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3 hours ago, trgt said:
CorrectPres has been RO/CRO/RM for almost 50 Level II or greater matches the last 10 years
Pres was RM prior two year Roadrunner matches as well as recent Grid Iron and Top gun match in areaPres kept commit to help Roadrunner and was a stage CRO and probably knows everyone at the match personally
Yee-min Lin was a certified USPSA RM?
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4 hours ago, broadside72 said:
AFAIK, both Pres and that AD in question were elected after the bylaw change. So selective enforcement
Ah, thank you. I couldn't remember when the bylaw change occurred, and I don't know if there was any "you have time to fix this" circumstances made.
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31 minutes ago, Rich406 said:
They’ve been emboldened by what they’ve gotten away with in the past 18 months. Sure, there is a short term uproar from a small portion of the membership, but they ignore it, and nothing comes of it. So the behavior continues to get worse.
hopefully, this might be the wake up call for the 80% of members that care about nothing other than their local match.
What exactly do you think the have been "emboldened" to do?
Disciplinary action for specific documented issues?
Following the bylaws for election positions? (Noting that if a board member doesn't have an RO cert and nothing has been done, that's an issue if the bylaw was in place when the board member was elected, or it has been long enough since the bylaw was enacted for the board member to gain their certification. I'm not sure what the situation is, though.)
I guess I'm not certain exactly what part of the situation at hand you are thinking is the issue.
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On 4/13/2023 at 6:00 PM, boudreux said:
Has anybody out there used a commander timer with an Amazon fire tablet? I am just checking to see if there are any issues. It would just be for practice so I don't really want to spend the money on an iPad.
Yup. No issues. Works perfectly well.
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On 3/5/2023 at 9:20 AM, Almo said:
If you're pointing the gun in a safe direction, does it really matter if your finger is in the trigger guard where the only movement is about three steps while aiming at the next target.
Yes. Because if they don't have the control to have their finger out of the trigger guard while moving, then it is unlikely that they are managing to also keep the gun pointed in a safe direction. I can't think of a single competition type (or firearms instructor, for that matter) that doesn't agree with "finger out of the trigger guard while moving unless you are actively shooting/aiming."
On 3/5/2023 at 1:31 PM, Dr. Phil said:Like I said prior, I think this "new rule" will be the cause of DQ for some shooters. Many have not trained to remove their finger and I don't believe they will be able to learn it on the run.
It should be a DQ. After all, under the old rule, it was ALSO a DQ.
Original rule: 10.3.7 (DQ offense): Moving (taking more than one step) with finger inside of trigger guard.
If someone was moving with their finger in the trigger guard, it should have been a DQ, period. That's always been true.
On 3/5/2023 at 8:56 PM, bigdawgbeav said:Once that foot hits the ground inside the center box then they are no longer moving. Doesn't matter about the other foot. As long as it's not touching the ground. So that is literally NOT a DQ. Foot in box = no longer moving. Foot about to hit the ground in the box = not MORE than one step, that A step.
That's not how that works. Literally, even once the first foot hits, there is still movement (unless you are claiming that people freeze once their foot hits). We don't define movement as "more than one step after the part we are calling movement." If they are taking more than one step, then the entire process after that until they halt (which is defined as "stop moving their feet") is called "movement."
Everyone can see it, everyone knows it. This, again, is why the rule was changed because of course people were starting to aim as they hit the new box, and were technically supposed to be DQed under the old rule.
The parts in bold, above, are incorrect.
And again, BECAUSE they are incorrect, the rule needed to be updated so that people weren't doing things that should have gotten them DQed under the old rules, though they weren't actual safety issues.
On 3/7/2023 at 3:36 PM, Hoops said:Rimfire Rifle. I seem to recall a past clarification (by SCSA) that stowing/securing carbines in 3-gun style carts (and/or modified strollers) or 4 wheeled carts, was to be considered "cased".
Not exactly, though close the same thing. The main difference between "in a cart" and "in a case" shows up in 8.3.8.7, where it ends with "The muzzle of the rifle must point in a safe direction while in the cart." In a case, we don't care about the direction, but in a cart, the safe direction is still important. So...carts that carry the rifle horizontally (and not in a case) aren't going to work, but ones that hold the rifle vertically down will work fine.
We get a lot of carts, too, especially in matches where they can shoot multiple guns on the same squad. All the ones that don't use cases use vertical carry carts, many of the ones that use cases have horizontal carry carts.
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On 4/4/2023 at 2:27 PM, BritinUSA said:
The amount of money spent on Nationals and Travel appear excessive. I think the spending from the org is disproportionate to the benefits that it provides to the members and clubs.
What do you think would not be excessive? By how much is it "excessive"?
Do you know how much is spent paying mileage for ROs to travel to Nats and such?
You always tend to phrase things really strongly, so I'm curious if you can actually be specific instead of generalizing using phrases that are meaningless such as "appear excessive" and "spending is disproportionate".
(And as people have pointed out, 2.3% CC fees is pretty much right in the middle of the standard for card-not-in-hand charges.)
Require Painting in Tier 1 Matches?
in Steel Challenge
Posted
I'm having difficulty with the concept that "painting once before each shooter" somehow means that "fun shooters aren't being accommodated." Those two things have pretty much nothing to do with each other.
There is no logically supported reason to not paint. Money isn't the problem (as people have shown), time isn't the problem (as people have shown), and it doesn't hurt the "fun" shooters who want to socialize in the slightest if they socialize while walking out to paint.
Literally, the only thing that not painting does, is make it not a Steel Challenge match with scores that can't possibly be justified because you can't verify them.
There IS a lot to be said for a low key competitive match for kids. Anyone who works with kids knows that friendly competition and scores where they can see their improvement are INCREDIBLE motivators for kids. Know what makes that happen? Following the rules every time so that their scores are actually a meaningful measurement of their improvement,where those scores are measured and called correctly, which requires painting.
Want to get kids excited? Let them participate in the actual sport, seeing their actual scores as opposed to "eh, we'll give it to you" or "I'm gonna call that a miss" or the worst ever "we don't call misses" rulesets.
Just like kids know that participation trophies don't matter and aren't worth anything, finding out that what they are doing isn't actually the REAL sport and their scores aren't actually a measure of their skill---that's going to be a strong negative.