[Browning Hi-Power Trigger Job]

Probably out of the question but something to consider,other than 9mm,is a 38 super.. Great gun in single stack 1911 that with reloads will go from the light 38 target loading to the flame throwing 357 mag..Feeds and functions with the best and with a decent barrel,Nowlin or equivalent,will be the most accurate non custom auto to be found..Same bullets as the 9mm and mostly the same powders,just trade some of your 9mm brass for 38 super..Easy caliber to reload and with moderate loads brass lasts almost forever..

Maybe not for you but something to think about anyway..

I have real small hands / fingers so 1911's are bulky to me and are 2 handed guns. Where most 9mm are single handed and fit well.

I did though do a something a year or so ago when I originally posted this...

http://www.samscustomgunworksusa.com/beret...customwork.html

My Beretta is now a 1.75 lb pull single action target gun. It will not out shoot my S&W 38 / 357's but at least the groups are not the size of my fist now.

If I had it to do all over again with my current knowledge, I would have bought 2 Taurus pistols, one 9, one 40 and convert one to single action and soften the trigger on the 40 frame but leave double action. Then add a .357 sig barrel into the mix. I would have had 2 target pistols or 3 self defense calibers. (40 is pretty worthless for Bullseye.)

[Browning Hi-Power Trigger Job]

I have on my list an EAA Witness Gold, CZ Champion & the STI 9mm. But in my area the chances of hold any of those in hand is like winning the state loto. So I am going to check when I visit mom in Akron OH for any specialize gun stores.

I just bought a S&W Model 52 in 38 wadcutter. The trigger is about nothing & 2.25lbs. The first day out I out did everything I ever did with my Beretta 92.

So like I figured trigger weight has a lot to do with "my accuracy" but I am not so sure not if 1.5 lbs. is all that necessary.

I started this tread because I have shot a Browning many times, these other guns I will be lucky to ever hold in hand.

I just know the 1911 & 45 ACP is not my "cup of tea" ... 1911 & 9mm unknown. I was offered a chance to shoot one in the spring so will take the guy up on his offer.

Thanks, Butch

[Browning Hi-Power Trigger Job]

People rag on the BHP but it's like anyother pistol. Shoot the damn thing and learn, yes learn, it's idiosyncrasies. Then maybe you will shoot it reasonably well enough to compete.

You have to get used to the way it handle, cycles, trigger feels etc.

I like my BHP and I shoot it quite well.

People just don't want to take the time to play with it.

My father did well with a 1972 Browning Hi Power. That is why I started with this tread. I figured I could get a clone or even a Hi Power and spend $100 or so on trigger work and have a nice toy for Bullseye shooting and not have 2 grand in the whole deal.

[Browning Hi-Power Trigger Job]

If you want a 9mm that has a good trigger and will last build an SV. I bought a used "beachface" gun in .40 and changed it to 9mm because of a good deal on 9mm ammo. I used a bushing barrel in case I thought of using it for non-USPSA events. It is a bullet hose!

I use my SV Super mags from my OPEN guns and they work fine.

Good trigger, high capacity and long service life. What else do you need?

Sorry don't know the lingo. What is an SV? Beachface? Good trigger & long life sounds great to me, high capacity is nice but not a must for paper killing.

The breakage you described easy to fix? Costly? or pitch gun?

[Browning Hi-Power Trigger Job]

Does anyone win without a 1911?

I see a pricey S&W is far cheaper than a built 1911 in 9mm. The cheapest quote I ever got was $1800.

Here's a quote: STI Trojan in 9mm, about $920 from dawson Precision.

Thanks. I really wasn't specific... I & my gunsmith was talking more like the $2300 model without the compensator.

But you helped in another way I now have an idea of what is meant by 2011.

[Browning Hi-Power Trigger Job]

OK, a single action 9mm it is. Since you won't go with a 1911, and the BHP trigger seems to be a real sticking point, you've pretty much taken the search to rarities.

That leaves the various CZs and clones, built (or re-built) to single action. Relatively rare or pricey S&Ws, then the Llamas, Stars, etc.

Let us know what works out.

Are any built like the 1911 with a direct connected trigger?

Are 1911's the only guns used in competitions (not cowboy action of course)? Does anyone win without a 1911?

I see a pricey S&W is far cheaper than a built 1911 in 9mm. The cheapest quote I ever got was $1800.

[Browning Hi-Power Trigger Job]

I would recommend a CZ 75SA - they are around $500, very accurate, and are well regarded. Perhaps a Sig P225 single stack 9mm will also float your boat. My friend has one and it is a VERY nice pistol.

Before you discount the 1911 style, you should try to find an shoot one - they work.

Jeff

I am keeping the CZ models on the burner for a while I just have no place around here to look & hold one especially not a match or target version. I live in an area of hunters and "blow out ammo" guys. Not many real target shooters other than shotgun. I destroy my targets so a couple "competitors" I know will never see them and get discouraged. Shooting is a God given privilege of good health. And just good clean fun. And about 10,000 rounds a year for me in relaxation.

I have shot many custom & Kimber 1911's in 45 ACP. 45 ACP just doesn't do anything for me. The gun is ok.

I have an Automag so the 1911 seems to be a downgrade (not really, just feels that way with a short barrel and no flame.) I could get my fathers off my brother to shoot if I really wanted it. It is about a $3000 gun by today's standards.

Sig 225??? Didn't see one on their web site. Sig 226 single stack (X5) is out for sure.

9mm has snap. The 30 carbine load as 32/20 and 38 special target have nothing. 357 or 30 carbine rifle in pistol is flame and thrill. 44 mag is too much. No stinking way on 454, 460 or 500, or 50 BMG either.

[Browning Hi-Power Trigger Job]

Butch, what kind of accuracy are you looking for?

Excellent (aka similar to what my 30 carbine Ruger & 686 do.)

Are you shooting groups, shooting bullseye targets

Yes. No competition. Shooting is fun, relaxation or once in while thrilling. Not much into pain other than 30-06. My calibers are 30 carbine, 380 / 9mm, 38 special & 357.

It looks like you want a single action autoloader in 9mm.

Absolutely.

[Browning Hi-Power Trigger Job]

I have 2 separate gunsmith who told me flat out don't ever thing about 9mm in 1911 unless I want an ammo grinder

I've no idea what is meant by an "ammo grinder" but, whether it cost them money or not, that kind of generic statement is just plain stupid. Some strongly held biases are based on limited experience and a stubborn resistance to being convinced by mere facts and copious evidence.

/Bryan

Will not eject properly, will not seat properly, jams constantly, dirtier - the worst it gets. Is that better? aka "ammo grinder" sorry you never heard that expression.

1911 is a low pressure gun! It was designed as a low pressure gun. It ejects and lines up low pressure ammo well. All the rest gets chewed up and once in a while even spit out properly. High pressure guns are ramped differently.

For every person who claims to have a good 9mm 1911 I have heard 10 horror stories. The only 2 gunsmiths I ever met I liked and trusted said "Don't buy one!!" Both sell custom match grade 1911's in 45 ACP. I had 2 gunsmiths (one in mentioned in this thread) say buy a Hi Power if you want 9mm that is why I started this tread to find out some fruitful opinions not sarcasm.

For you all who want to live and die with a 1911 45 in your hand that fine with me. I don't; I won't.

By the way I am not biased, I have my opinions and know what I like, sorry if you don't like that. If there is no such thing as a good target pistol in the world but a 1911 then I will hang up my semi-autos and shoot revolvers and high power rifle.

[Browning Hi-Power Trigger Job]

I just bought a S&W Model 52. Yet to get it here or play with one.

I would like to stay 9mm. I have 10,000 brass, 10,000 bullets, all the Dillon stuff. Every powder worth owning for 9mm. 40k small pistol primers.

45 just doesn't do anything for me and I have shot some of the best.

I have no way to rent a gun in 40 S&W in my area to see if that is an option or not. But I am talking $500 to get another caliber by the time it is over and done. Unless I load 38 +P, I have nothing to give a general idea of 40 and then not in semi-auto. I don't load +P anyway. I like target wadcutters or 13.8 grains 2400 JHP .357. One is relaxing, one if flame throwing fun.

For everyone who said they have a good 9mm 1911. I have heard 10 horror stories. 2 gunsmiths told me don't!! Which by the way actually cost them money to say that. 1911 also will not do the other calibers I know I would like well either 357 sig 10mm or 40 corbon.

So far these are all the possible models to consider once the 1911 is out of the picture.

Browning HP or clone (looking slim) $200-$700

CZ 75 TS $1050

S&W 952 $1500 but I would have to have long slide $1700

EAA Gold $500

EAA Match $1600 (I might have these backwards on price.)

Anyone have other considerations?

Make & Model with a single action only trigger?

Do any of the above have direct connect mechanism like the 1911's or a revolver?

P226 X5 is out! It is just a double action trigger with no cocking. I could not believe the slop.

(Something I heard of which sounded really good was a 1911 that used 38/45?? a wildcat cartridge. Necked down 45ACP with 38 SWC lead bullets. But I have never seen one and don't know if anybody could build one or not from existing hardware.)

Thanks everyone.

[Browning Hi-Power Trigger Job]

I have 2 separate gunsmith who told me flat out don't ever thing about 9mm in 1911 unless I want an ammo grinder. My father's 1911 could not do 9mm or 40 corbon or 10 mm, problem after problem but it could shoot 40 & 45 all day long. (His gun by today's standard is in the $3000 custom range.)

It looks like forget the Browning or clone from all that you all have said.

[Browning Hi-Power Trigger Job]

You want a good BHP trigger pull, send it to:

Wayne Novak

At the advise of a gunsmith I contacted Novak's originally and instantly pitched him. They said 4lbs. or so. (As in Parkersburg WV. unless there are two of them?)

[Browning Hi-Power Trigger Job]

You want a good BHP trigger pull, send it to:

Wayne Novak

Bill Laughridge

Ted Yost

Of the three, using the parts in the gun the Yost I have came out a bit better. If you have to have the best possible, get Bill to do the job with new parts, his hammer and sear. Tell them it is a competition gun, not a carry gun.

It will never be as good as the best 1911 (or some other models) trigger job, but that matters only if you're looking only for the 1.5 pound trigger pull. If three pounds and clean is good enough (and it should be, for all but GMs) those three guys can get you there.

I already have basically 3lbs in my Beretta. I need much lower. My 686 had a 3.3 lb trigger nice and crisp and I did many 2" patterns. After a drop to 1.5lb lots of 1" patterns.

[Browning Hi-Power Trigger Job]

Cylinder and Slide has drop in kits for brownings and berretas. It may get you want you want with the mag disconect deactivated.

https://shop.cylinder-slide.com/ccp51/cgi-b...atstr=HOME:6:20

Thanks. I will pass this along to my gunsmith to check out.

[Browning Hi-Power Trigger Job]

First off, I don't compete, never will. I don't like shooting 45 ACP and I have shot some of the best 1911's ever made.

What I am after is a target pistol in 9mm to kill paper for personal enjoyment and relaxation. I have a Beretta 92 with a trigger job of about 1.25 lbs. of slop and 3 pounds after that to pull the trigger.

I want better!!!! (My revolvers are in the less that 2 lb. range and crisp.)

I have seen many people shoot Brownings or clones in competitions.

Disabling the mag. safety cuts about 3lbs off a Browning. (And yes, some will have a problem with that, don't care, I always check my gun twice before pulling the trigger.)

Has anyone out there cut down the rest of the trigger assemble? What was your final result?

If I can't get a lot better than what I have in my Beretta, why spend money?

Thanks

[Lost my Dad tonight]

Sorry to here about your loss, I will add you & family to prayers.

[7.62 x 54 bullets]

The standard bullet for the M91/30 was a hollow based 148-grain, IIRC. The light machinegun bullet was a boat tail 182-grainer.

They are going to dismantle a bunch of this ammo and resize for 308 so I need to find some of the machine gun stuff.

Thanks.

[38 Special Loads]

I've used the following with good results:

2.8-3.1/Bullseye/148 or 158 (both are pleasant and accurate, neither are max)

3.6-4.1/Unique/148 or 158 (same notes as above)

3.0/WW231/158 (very accurate, probably below starting load)

3.3 - 3.5/PB/148-158 (clean, accurate, pleasant)

Unique might not burn very cleanly, and/or give you some serious muzzle flash, particularly in the snubby. I haven't experimented with 2400 in .38 Special, but I suspect that it won't burn completely at .38Spl pressures, even in the very long barrels you mentioned using. If you DO load some up, I would be very interested in what kind of results you obtain with it. I hope you find this information of help.

My cousin's cancer surgery was put on hold. So didn't go. I have had a chance to shoot a 357 7+ inch gun and loaded:

2.7 & 2.8 Bullseye with excellent results. Light, pop pop load. 148's (don't have very many 158 like I thought to play with.)

I loaded 3.5, 3.6, 3.8, 3.9 & 4.0 new WW231 and can't complain about the overall results with WW231. My best was 3/4" with the 4.0 and my worst of about 5". I think the 3.6, 3.7 will be the target load at least in 148's. A little more punch than the Bullseye and somewhat cleaner.

I just did some OLD Universal today, with great results overall at 3.0-3.1 (doesn't meter well for me) but I don't have a clue what NEWER Hodgdon Universal will do. This is light recoil like the Bullseye. (4.3 of the OLD was one of my father's target loads in his old Colt Python can't remember the gun barrel size though other than long. The gun has been gone for years. But that is rather hot. Plus P for Modern Universal. )

Please send me an email privately and I will let you know later what I find because it might be Nov. or Dec. before surgery.

(sales11 at iscnetwork dot com)

I will try the others when I get the chance.

Thanks. Butch

[ebay]

He agreed that people will just take their business elsewhere. [/color]

WHERE?

I can't tell anyone about free advertising for bullets & brass because that is advertising.

So why don't some of the rest of you "Step up to the plate" and set up free advertising and tell the rest of us about it.

The Ebay thing did a great blow to the gun people as a whole. It will run some pro-gun people out of business. Other hunting or weapons will be next, just a matter of time.

Butch

[ebay]

Assault Rock was good but why not put up "The most Dangerous Weapon -- A baseball bat because everyone knows how to use it"

All Pro-Gun people can also take the other approach too...

Do what I have done..

Look up items you normally buy in the bullets & brass world...

Ask seller a question?

In the question tell them where they can get free bullet & brass advertising. And ask them to pass it along. Many have already posted the question that gives other the opportunity to see.

Butch

[38 special loads - 2" barrel & 8" barrel]

I've used UNIQUE, WAP(WINCHESTER ACTION PISTOL) and now I use HODGENS TITEGROUP and I also think that N320 would work. I use N320 in my 40 s&w 180 precison bullets.

Larry

Do you have any descent low power target loads with Unique or Titegroup or N320?

I have 8+ lbs. of unique. I will be ordering 8lb of Titegroup and I may have a 1lb of 320 upstairs. Vih. powders in 9 always seem pretty hot and some are close to compressed load, so I don't think about having them around unless I am doing JHP expansion tests.

Butch

[Powder / Primer Dealer in Tennessee?]

I don't think either of these 2 unless they raised their prices a lot. The original place I found was a little higher and lower depending on you were looking to buy in powder & primers that Powdervalleyinc.com

I am going to be all over TN sometime soon and figured I would just pick up a bunch of stuff and bring back with me. But at the prices I saw I can just pay the hazmat and save money to my door at least on the $1000+ order I am trying to figure out.

Thanks.

Still looking....

Butch

[I often hear the argument for...]

First I thing a person should do what they want to do first...

It appears that I shoot about 5000 rounds of semi-auto per year.

5000 x .06 (lead bullets) = $300

40 would be $400.

9 mm is a little more common for brass, bullets and uses more ranges of powder even though this in 5 years will be a mute issue.

IN a perfect world as a self defense weapon, 40 is better than 9. But then 357 is best. So you are choosing about 5th place vs. 6th place (figuratively).

Another is 9mm light loads kick less than 40 light loads. (This is what I have heard. I never had the chance to use same make and model 9 vs. 40 to see for myself.)

I know from my father's targets he did much tighter patterns with his P35 than he ever did with his custom $2000 1911 shooting 40. (The $2000 is parts pricing not bought pre built.)

Another is what gun did you grow up with?

Me -- Blackhawk 357 with WC's & a P35.

Butch

[How to Completey Delete Memory]

In my computer business I have to remove all hard drives run some program as mentioned already and then physically destroy the hard drive for all my military sub-contractors.

But since you would like to give away the computer. Run defrag on your computer. Then use one of the programs above. If the hard drive is OVER 33 GB once swipe is all that is needed. Then use your restore CD if you have one and that will stop 99.999999999% of the best. If the hard drive is under 33 GB 3 times!

Most information I find on computers in 'child porn' court cases are in the clusters that are not 100% overwritten by new files.

Butch

[ebay]

I need to retract my statement about Ebay overcoming greed to do what they think is right.

They didn't. Notice the Dell advertisements? They exchanged greed for even more evil and sold out the gun owners in the process.

Butch