Garrett
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Posts posted by Garrett
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Interesting findings today. I went through all of my various bullets and loaded up a bunch of each and shot for groups using my Ruger PCC. I was shooting from the bench at a bullseye target on 8-1/2 x 11 paper placed at 50 yards. All groups were of 10 shots each. As long as I was going to the trouble, I shot them over the chronograph while I was at it. The Ruger is pretty new to me, and I didn't have any velocity data from this barrel. All were loaded in mixed range brass. I did not mess with my seating die, so OAL length varies a bit depending on bullet profile, with all between 1.070" and 1.125". All fed and functioned just fine using a Glock 26 magazine.
Bullets include:
115 Rainier plated RN
115 ACME coated RN
124 ACME coated RN
124 Berrys plated RN
124 Zero JHP
147 Zero JHP
147 Berrys plated RN
147 Xtreme plated RN
147 FMJ (pull downs)
I loaded them with an appropriate charge of Win 231, with the exception of the 147 gr. Berrys and 124 ACME, which I had loaded previously using WSF.
The worst performing load was with the 147 gr. pulled bullets. Only 3 of 10 bullets hit the paper. These were pretty inexpensive, and I bought them to blast through the machine guns. Probably won't use them for USPSA.
Next worst was the 115 ACME, with 8 of 10 on paper giving an 8" group, plus whatever the two misses would have added up to.
Best groups were from the 124 ACME (2.3"), 115 Rainier (2.8"), and 147 Zero (2.9"). The 124 Zero also performed very well. Overall group was 4.3", but with one flier. Removing the flier gave a 9-shot group of 2.3". The other bullets produced groups between 4.5" and 6.25".
So the gun did not seem to have a strong preference for any given bullet weight. I suspect it was more a matter of quality of construction. I was a little surprised that the best and second wrost groups were bullets from the same company (ACME). It may be those bullets prefer WSF to 231.
I had stopped buying Xtreme bullets a few years ago when they gave me some silencer baffle strikes. I understand about not over-crimping plated bullets, and my dies are set the same for those as how I have them for Berrys and Rainier, which have never given me any issues. The Xtremes performed in the middle of the pack with a 4.75" group.
I've only got a few hundred Xtremes left, which I'm loading up to get rid of eventually. Same with polymer coated bullets. I've had enough issues with both style that I'm going to finish these and be done with them. It will be jacketed and select brands of plated going forward, based on my past experiences. Just not worth it to me messing with the others.
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On September 3, 2018 at 11:37 AM, MemphisMechanic said:
Initially my gun got 2,000 rounds of coated. Until I cleaned the comp for the first time. Which required a grinding bit in a dremel. Never doing that again.
Had to chisel and then grind all of this out of the comp’s ports. It’s not an “oh, just hit it with a wire brush” kind of cleaning. It’s like chipping epoxy off the steel.
And how did the bore look?
Everyone claims the poly coated bullets don't lead the bore, but my experience through many barrels has been different.
I thought maybe it was because I was using a surplus SMG barrel that could have been a bit rough. But it's done this on commercial barrels as well.
So I took a new, unfired Ruger PC Carbine and cleaned the barrel. Then I borescopes the new barrel. Afterward, I shot 300+ rounds of Berry's plated bullets and re-scoped. Then I cleaned it and shot 245 rounds of coated bullets. Results are shown below.
Then I scrubbed for around 45 minutes using a bronze brush as well as copper mesh wrapped around a cleaning jag. There are still some chunks that refuse to dislodge.
And if anyone is really interested, video of all the borescoping can be seen here:
These were commercial bullets coated with Hi Tec poly coating, sized to .356". They were not over-crimped. Crimp is set to rust take out the bell in the case mouth, as seen below on the pulled bullets.
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I just picked up a Ruger carbine. I see there are a few aftermarket accessories out there for it. I'm wondering how much of it is actually needed for USPSA.
Comp effectiveness has been debated here already. I plan to play with a few that I already have vs. light loads.
There are magwells and big mag release buttons. But reloads are pretty infrequent in PCC. I plan to do some reload drills and try to get a feel for how much I really think one would help.
So aside from a trigger job, is there much more that one would need to add for one of these guns?
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24 minutes ago, Suburban Commando said:
Of course. SGM and Beta, to name two.
Sent from my LGLS755 using Tapatalk
Well, sort of. There are drum mags designed to work with a Glock. So these should function in an AR designed for Glock mags.
However, being designed for a Glock handgun means the feed tower is long enough to fit in a Glock grip. This is going to be a bit longer than an AR15 magwell. So you get a drum that hangs down much farther than is necessary for the carbine.
You don't get the optimal fit, such as the standard Colt-pattern Beta Mag in an AR15/9.
I am not aware of a drum with a Glock-style feed tower that is sized optimally for an AR15/9. But what is out there should feed and function.
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Like most things, they have their place. However, in a sport like USPSA where your largest stage should be 32 rounds, there may be limited utility vs. a big stick.
Drums are heavy and sometimes a bit clunky. But depending on the design, they can be significantly shorter than a stick mag of similar or smaller capacity. This could be a benefit if shooting through some really low ports.
On on the other hand, some subgun matches have stages that require 150 or 200 rounds to complete. Drums really come in handy there.
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Interesting. I built a few mag holders for grease gun and Reising mags around 15 years ago. They're ugly as sin, but they work. Now that I can buy BladeTech Tec Locks, it's even better. I built some Desert Eagle mag holders not long ago, because I couldn't find anything I liked.
I may may have to try some new GG mag holders and see how they work out.
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2 hours ago, SwedishMoose said:
What's the PF like on that cannon? And did they let you shoot any steel?
I was running around a 250 PF. Can't really download and keep the gun running.
And yes, it had no problem taking down steel, even with low hits.
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So the other day just for fun I ran a Desert Eagle L5 in Open Division at the local club match. This is the aluminum frame "lightweight" version of the Desert Eagle. Among other things, it has a comped barrel and the factory mags hold 10 rounds reloadable, even though they are only marked as holding 9 rounds. Besides being oversized and obnoxious, I thought it might be a viable option if I ever have the opportunity to shoot in a mag restricted state.
I think I would shoot an un-comped gun in Limited if the rules still allowed .357 mag for Major in that division. I don't recall which eddition of the rulebook last had that exemption, but I don't see it in there now.
The things working against the gun are the excessively powerful cartridge (I was running around 250 PF. It doesn't like it if you download any), a grip the size of a 2x4, and the safety that requires a double-jointed thumb to disengage. Once you get past that, you find there are no appropriate holsters that will work with an optic mounted on the barrel, and no good mag holders. I was able to make an appropriate shim for a Hogue Powerspeed holster. Kydex mag holders can be built at home, where I discovered the wife doesn't care for the smell of cooking kydex coming from the kitchen stove. They work pretty well, though.
Once you get past all of that, you find the dot doesn't track all that well. It's okay, but nothing like running a tuned STI with a CMore. Oh yeah, and those not-double-jointed thumbs need to be a couple inches longer to reach the mag release.
The gun runs great, except when it doesn't. In my case, that was 5 of the 7 stages where it didn't play nice. It looks like my barrel is scraping bullet jacket at the gas port. I was pulling the barrel between stages and cleaning out the little copper disks. I believe that was leading to most of my malfunctions. The two good runs are on the video. Nobody likes watching a bunch of surprise malfunction drills.
But in spite of all of that, it was a lot of fun. Everyone on the squad got a kick out of watching it. It's fun, but I think I'll go back to a more traditional gun next time.
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The Hogue is pretty customizable. It has a trigger guard lock, so the gun won't come out when you're moving. You can disable it at the "make ready"command, or it's pretty easy to disable as you draw.
It comes with a bunch of different shims so you can modify it to fit various size guns. And if that doesn't work, you just build your own shims out of wood or plastic. I just shot a match yesterday using one I had set up for a Desert Eagle. Just because I can.
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How about the 1944 OEM sights.
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Nice!
Now take that 60-round mag and Taccom a 40-rounder to it.
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On February 22, 2018 at 11:35 AM, Neil E. said:
No side-by-side magazine couplers allowed. Magazines must be carried on the belt or in apparel pockets. See rule 5.2.4. No restriction on location on the belt. No thigh rigs or tie down magazine holders. End-to-end coupling/extension is allowed.
Just to stir the pot, what exactly does "side-by-side" mean?
Is this mag coupled setup "side-by-side"?
And if so, how long until someone comes up with a coupler that puts the mags in this orientation? Definitely not "side-by-side".
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So just for fun I looked at yesterday's match where I shot 90% of the 1st place PCC shooter's score. Going back and re-figuring if I was scored Major and left everyone else Minor pushes me into 1st by a wide margin.
I would have have been shooting my same gun with a .40 cal barrel swapped in and 35-round mags. Recoil is not much different between the two calibers in this platform. So I don't see any major differences in how I would have shot, or what my times would have been.
Based on that, I'm guessing the trend would be for most everyone to go to Major PCC, throw accuracy out the window, and make it a real hose-fest.
Just an observation.
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On October 11, 2017 at 6:05 PM, atomicferret said:
...they could have made a minimum caliber for major, just like Limited. That would have made for some interesting gun choices.
I think this would be interesting as well. If nothing else, it would make for some interesting innovations in the industry. It would be interesting to see how the different guns would work out, and if Major scoring would prove to be much of an advantage after all.
For the record, yesterday's local match had 9 of 65 shooters in PCC, or almost 14%. Production Division had the most shooters at 19, with Single Stack and Limited at 14 each.
It seems many of the PCC shooters are the those who used to shoot Open most often. That division has dropped to only a handful.
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I sort of like the idea. However, I also think there are more than enough divisions already.
What at if we handled it like Single Stack? Still just keep one PCC division, but split it into Major and Minor.
Major shoots 165 PF ammo, no optic, with 20-round mag limits. Minor is like we have now with optics and no mag limits.
If if you want to get interesting, make it minimum .40 cal to score Major, like we do for limited.
Just a suggestion for discussion.
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Repo of the solid wood stock from Military Armament Corp. on my PCC
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I had to go with home made for the quad stack 50-round coffin mags.
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Watch the RO at the end of Stage 1.
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Your 3-lug barrel extension should take care of the issue.
As noted, suppressors are used without issue at subgun matches and other non-USPSA matches on a regular basis. The RO just needs to be aware of a couple of things.
Reading some one of the comments, people seem to think the timer needs to pick up the noise from the muzzle. While this does work, it's not necessarily the best way to go about RO-ing a suppressed shooter. There is plenty of "gas" and mechanical noise coming from the ejection port. It's usually not that difficult for the RO to reach and get the timer in proximity to the ejection port.
For an added measure, some will try to position the timer such that the brass from the last shot hits the timer.
And remember, you don't need to catch all shots - only the last shot.
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BTW, it's a little hard to see because it's so shiny, but here's what the can looked like before anything had been shot through it.
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37 minutes ago, PhotoRecon said:
I had the same problem with lead build up in the barrel and comp of my custom built 45. The bullets I was using then sure looked like they had only one coat instead of two or three.
On my 9mm 1911 the barrel looked clean but my Outers Foul Out proved that despite the polymer coating that leading still occurred but not as bad as traditional lead.
I've since switched to some other brands with better results and no leading in the compensator.
Care to share what brand you switched from and to?
PM if you don't want to publish it here. Thanks.
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23 minutes ago, Hi-Power Jack said:
I wonder if it's "leading", or a buildup of the coating on the bullets?
Possible that firing a dozen fmj bullets might clean it all out?
It sure looks like the same buildup as from shooting plain lead.
And I highly doubt shooting more ammo, jacketed or otherwise, would clean it out. That so etimes works to clean small amount ts of .22 LR crud out of a .223 can. But that's more from the extra heat and pressure of the centerfire round. Shooting more 9mm won't do anything. Nice thought, though.
If I can get a picture posted, it will be more obvious, I think.
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I've loaded and shot around 5000 124 and 147 gr. poly coated bullets in the past year or so. The majority of them have been shot through a couple of silencers.
While I previously hadn't seen any leading in the barrels to speak of, I have found I get a pretty good buildup in the silencers. Like as bad or worse than shooting bare lead. Crimp is only enough to take out the flare in the case mouth. And no, I haven't been shaving bullets as they seat.
This was especially noticeable today. I ran around 500 rounds through the Uzi & suppressor this morning. Mostly short bursts and fast singles/doubles. When I pulled the can and looked inside, I had a "cone" of crud built up on the blast baffle. Noticeably more than when I'd started.
Also, I've got some heavy leading in the barrel.
These are all commercially produced bullets using HiTek coating. They are loaded with a mid-range book load of WSF.
As noted, I'm not over-crimping.
Have other people experienced this?
Based on feedback I've gotten here and other forums, I might try a different brand of bullets and see if I get better results.
What kind of bullets are you feeding your PCC?
in Pistol Caliber Carbine
Posted
I have been using 231 for a lot of years. You sometimes get a bit of soot on the end of the slide with low pressured rounds like .45 ACP, but I haven't noticed it so much with 9mm or other higher pressure cartridges. Or maybe I just haven't looked. But that's literally just light "soot" that wipes right off.
As far as smoke, not so much. Any real smoking I've noticed comes from the bullet. Lubed lead will obviously smoke a fair amount. And despite what some will say, I tend to get a fair amount of smoke from poly coated bullets as well. They may smoke a bit less than plain lead, but it's still noticeably more smoke than you get from jacketed or copper plated bullets.