[DLC/Hard Chrome on Frame Rails?]

21 minutes ago, tomjerry1 said:

Sorry, I had their name wrong, here is the correct web site

 

https://apwcogan.com/

Ah perfect, thanks. 

[DLC/Hard Chrome on Frame Rails?]

1 hour ago, tomjerry1 said:

The HC stays put, even on the rails. I used Advanced Weapons Plating, great work.

Great news. It doesn't start coming off the rails after a certain amount of rounds? Do you happen to have the link/contact info for AWP?

[DLC/Hard Chrome on Frame Rails?]

45 minutes ago, tomjerry1 said:

No experience with DLC but have years on open pistols with Hard Chrome. Am very happy with the HC, wear is very minimal and is easy to clean. If the HD gets a small scratch, it can be buffed and removed, I've gotten over the scratches. I'm building a Limited pistol and am toying around with a DLC finish, because I want a black pistol? Have heard nothing but good about it.

Thanks for sharing your experience with HC. Does HC also work in the frame rails, or the minute the slide cycles the HC is gone?

 

[DLC/Hard Chrome on Frame Rails?]

I've heard that DLC and hard chrome are excellent finishes, but I'm wondering if I have these applied to a frame's rails will it stop the wear from the slide or will the coating come off a soon as the slide begins to cycle? 

[Pistol's Life]

13 minutes ago, Racinready300ex said:

 

Let's back up a little, how much does 9mm ammo cost out in Cali?

 

How many rounds do you plan to shoot a year?

 

 

I get 1,500 rounds for $300. But a lot of competition shooters out here have sponsors and they burn through like 10k - 20k rounds per month. So if you get a sponsor the sky is the limit as far as round counts. That's why I was wondering around how many rounds a Sig P320 FCU lasts, because that would come out of my pocket, lol. And $3k every year if they last around 150k rounds, that's kind of high for a production handgun. 

[Pistol's Life]

Now, onto revolver frames stretching, lol. Is it true that everytime you fire a revolver the frame stretches just a tiny bit? Or does this have to do only with the aluminum revolvers more so, or what if I but a 357 mag revolver but only shoot 38 special. Will it still stretch eventually, just much slower than with full power 357 mag loads?

[Pistol's Life]

1 hour ago, Racinready300ex said:

 

Eventually all things fail. 

 

You can have two and half SP01's for the price of just a FCU. I'd go CZ all day. Then you can have a beater practice gun and a low round count match gun. And if some how you ever get to the point you wear out one of the CZ's, you can again buy two more for less than a new FCU would of been. 

 

To me it seems crazy to spend 2.5k on just a fcu. You'll easily have over 3k once you finish the gun out and its' still just a 320 that in the real world is worth less than that SP-01.

Very true. The modularity of the P320 is very intriguing to me, but at that price yes, the P320's real market value is significantly less than a CZ. 

I wonder ehat would fail from the actual metal part of the FCU. Would it be the slide rail tabs thinning down to unusable, cracking, or another part of the FCU cracking? Because those 3 possibilities are the only ways I see the actual FCU cracking. 

[Pistol's Life]

5 minutes ago, Racinready300ex said:

 

Are SP-01's reasonable priced at least?

 

People go over board on guns. You don't really need a Shadow. You don't really even need to cajunize guns like everyone seems to do. Drop in a $7 hammer spring and learn to shoot the gun. So your trigger is going to have a little longer reset and more pretravel for the firing pin block. It's really not a big deal at all. 

 

I'm currently shooting a P-01, I could buy 4 of theses setup the same for the price of just one of your 320 FCU's. 

For the non-shadow I guess it's MSRP, $900 - $1k. But I really like the modularity of the P320. It's a real bummer I can't buy form an FFL here in CA. I spoke to Sig Sauer yesterday and one of their lead CS guys said eventually the FCU would fail, it would just be a matter of when, not if.

[Pistol's Life]

2 hours ago, DenC said:

I am not sure if aluminum handgun frames or even stainless steel frames can be rewelded. 

I have been through the rabbit hole of looking for a "forever" gun that can do all the other things I wanted.

Was looking for a double stack 9mm, carbon or stainless steel framed handgun or handgun family with a drop/firing pin safety that I can someday give to my kids, use to shoot ipsc with and use as a defensive weapon. Would also prefer for the gun have the least amount of plastic or rubber for its parts. 

I only had 3 options when I started this search: CZ B series, Tanfoglio (and the rebranded Armscor MAP steel frame series), and IWI Jericho 941. (Didnt know about Sarsilmaz then)

I chose to go with Tanfoglio/Armscor. They have carbon steel frames, have drop safeties (including in their competition models), are very nice for IPSC production division or even carry optics, a better design with regards to the firing pin safety (vs CZ B series) IMO, no plastic parts to replace (eg plastic guide rod in the CZ B series) and more models to choose from vs the IWI Jericho steel frame which only has 2 variants.

I have 2 of them already and plan on getting more. One will be used for competition and another will be for competition backup. Another 2 will be kept to give to the kids later on and to shoot occasionally and another 2 will be kept for defensive use (in case they will be used I expect these to be surrendered to police, hopefully never have to use them!) This is also a good justification to have more guns 

But if I do get really deep into IPSC and am able wear out my main competition gun, I am ready to replace it. If Im feeling stingy might have it rewelded and rebuilt. Of course if I feel the main competition gun is worn out I  also can swap it with the back up competition gun and relegate the first gun to backup.

Just dont know if the Tanfoglios (or derivatives like the Armscor steel framed MAP1, Jericho or Sarsilmaz) are approved in California.

 

Nice plan for eight guns, Lol. Unfortunately the Tangfolio isn't sold here in CA, or any of the other ones you mentioned for that matter. The only one sold here in CA is the CZ Sp 01 75, but not the shadow version. I've been thinking about getting one of these but since it's not the shadow version I looked at having the slide milled for optics but couldn't find replacement slides amd have heard that CZ won't replace just the slide? 

[Pistol's Life]

24 minutes ago, GigG said:

 

In USPSA Production you are going to be shooting minor power factor.  So you are safe with pretty much any gun on the list as far as longevity. 

I don't really like to reload though so so far I go with factory ammo. Still pretty safe as far as longevity? 

[Pistol's Life]

56 minutes ago, GigG said:

I don't think you've mentioned what sort of competition shooting you are doing.  That might help us get you into the proper pistol with the best longevity.

You're right! I haven't. I'm trying to get into competitive USPSA production. 

[Pistol's Life]

2 hours ago, Racinready300ex said:

 

Even at 10k rounds a year, he's going to need to shoot for 5 or 10 years with the same FCU to risk killing it. 

 

How much does a FCU cost in cali? Has anyone out there tried to challenge your silly law in court yet?

About $2,500 here in Cali, but the problem is that there's not many of them since they can only be obtained through ppt from someone coming into CA, and since most people are leaving CA, Lol. Yes, it's been challenged many times, the two most relevant ones one ended in the CA Supreme Court where the biased liberal court upheld the ridiculous law, and the other ended with an en blanc review in the 9th Circus Court of Appeals which also upheld the ridiculous. There's a new one, but unless SCOTUS intervenes I don't see it going anywhere either.

[Pistol's Life]

13 minutes ago, Johnny_Chimpo said:

 

Then move out of that state and move on from this weird obsession of yours.

Been thinking about it for years now.

[Pistol's Life]

16 minutes ago, Southpaw said:

CA banned all handguns? This is news to me. 

 

320 FCU isn't indestructible. Over insert 1 mag and bend ejector and then it could be toast.

 

If you can't buy stripped frames then buy a few complete Glocks and sells the uppers. Then you'll have spare frames for $100-200 each. 

Almost. Can only get pre 2012 models, and those are becoming few. For Glocks, for example, still on Gen 3 9mm when everyone has the Gen 5.

[Pistol's Life]

11 minutes ago, Southpaw said:

Your obsession with this is odd. Just buy a dozen Glock 17 frames and you'll never have to worry about this again. You can get them for around $100 each. 

I wouldn't worry about it if it were not for California banning the sale of everything. Can't buy just the receiver and anything P320 or P365 can only be bought from someone else and expect to pay about $2,500-$3,000 for each. Hence, for a Sig FCU it would only be worth it for me if it's pretty much indestructible. Any other part of the gun I can get, but the FCU because it's the serialized portion I can't replace here in California. 

[Pistol's Life]

12 minutes ago, DenC said:

I think carbon steel frame handgun frames can also be welded up and rebuilt if ever they wear out if you want to get the most life out of the pistol frame.

So with something like a Sig P226 or a Beretta 92 with aluminum frames re-welding isn't really an option? 

On that note, I know revolvers eventually stretch, especially if shooting hot and heavy magnum loads, or if the revolver is lightweight aluminum. However, if it's a. 357 magnum revolver and you only shoot 38 special through it, will it also eventually stretch, it'll just take much longer, or the 38 special won't have enough energy to ever stretch that revolver? 

[Pistol's Life]

7 minutes ago, DenC said:

I  thought the same before...that firearms were indestructible. Well I guess they still are if not a lot of rounds are fired through them and they are maintained.

For quality semi auto pistols that one uses for competition I think it would be reasonable to expect them to last tens of thousands of rounds, if not a hundred or even a couple hundred thousand rounds. Of course, small parts will have to be replaced along the way.

If I am not mistaken I think a properly done hard chrome finish may somewhat help in the longevity of  high round count semi autos in that it will take much more to wear out the hard chrome before you get to bare metal.

Of course there are other things that may help longevity like shock buffers...

I think carbon steel frame handgun frames can also be welded up and rebuilt if ever they wear out if you want to get the most life out of the pistol frame.

I was shocked when I learned that they're not indestructible, Lol. But yeah, most of them crack into the 150k+ rounds. I was curious to know about the Sig FCU because there's really no frame to crack that can't be replaced for $50, but since the slide rails and ejector and built into the FCU I was curious to see if these two things also wear out until the FCU is no longer usable? There's a member here who posted photos of pne of his FCU with over 100k rounds and it definitely looks worn, kind of flat grinded rather than round edges, but I'm wondering if those develop and then stop or if they keep going. If they keep going I'm wondering how long until all the metal runs out of the slide tabs.

[Wear on P320/365 FCU?]

37 minutes ago, MikeBurgess said:

Pretty much anything is reparable its just a matter of money. I know there are guys with transferable full auto guns that go great lengths to repair the serialized parts, but with those we are looking at lowers worth $30,000 so spending many thousand dollars to rebuild one from scratch makes sense.

I know California is a bitch but  unless there is zero possibility of getting a replacement its probably better to just plan on paying the premium to get a replacement when that time comes.

Yeah, I'm just planning ahead, worst case scenario with a zero possibility of replacement. So, for example, a CZ that cracks the actual frame or slide rails, I would be able to have it repaired? And would aluminum framed guns like the Sig P226 or Beretta 92fs also be candidates to get repaired?

[Wear on P320/365 FCU?]

24 minutes ago, Rich406 said:

It’s a nothing. There is nothing there, mostly likely it’s a strand of grease.

Yeah, now that you mention it it does kind of look like grease, thanks for telling me. I was just curious because it looked more like a casting line from the factory. 

So I can't really tell that well from the photos, but the edges, particularly the front edges, are definitely more rounded and a bit "sanded down" so to speak compared with an unused FCU, correct? 

[Wear on P320/365 FCU?]

19 minutes ago, Rich406 said:

That’s not a crack

Is it a deep scratch or it was just cast that way since new? I was just curious because the other side appears to be smoothly rounded.

[Wear on P320/365 FCU?]

6 hours ago, Rich406 said:

Here is a pic of the rail tab on a fcu with 97k live rounds and probably another 50k+ dry fire cycles. 
 

I don’t see anyone really wearing out a FCU. 
 

 

I'm curious, I just noticed what looks like a crack on the right slide tab. Is that from the casting or a deep scratch?

[Wear on P320/365 FCU?]

4 hours ago, MikeBurgess said:

that makes some sense. 

then I would NOT recommend a 320, having the ejector part of the FCU means a damaged ejector is a junk gun. 

get a all steel gun, 19/2011, CZ, Tanfoglio on these all the parts that could break are replicable, and if the rails wear out you can weld them up and re machine them.

one serial number could last you millions and millions of rounds.

That's been a major concern of mine. I did think about a CZ or Beretta 92 instead, but heard that the actual frame cracks. Would that be repairable as well if it does?

[Wear on P320/365 FCU?]

4 hours ago, Rich406 said:

Here is a pic of the rail tab on a fcu with 97k live rounds and probably another 50k+ dry fire cycles. 
 

I don’t see anyone really wearing out a FCU. 
 

 

Thanks for sharing! Wow, that's impressive. It just looks kond of rounded on the edges compared to a new one, I would guess like 5k rounds through it, not 97k. So probably in the millions of rounds to wear one out right? Now I'm more at ease about getting one.

[Wear on P320/365 FCU?]

14 minutes ago, MikeBurgess said:

just curious why the concern if a $300 part will wear out after eating $20,000 worth of ammo

Because they're not available for sale here in California, so it's extremely difficult to find one.

[Pistol's Life]

Prior to getting into competition I always thought that firearms were indestructible and lasted indefinitely. However, I was recently told that, for a semi-auto, each time the slide cycles it scrapes off a miniscule amount of metal from the slide rails. Eventually, the slide rails will get so thin that the frame will need to be replaced, or the rails will outright crack because they're so thin.
On that note, do revolvers also suffer from something similar to this, or revolvers last longer? For revolvers I've heard that frame stretching can be a problem. 
So, if I do something like cerakote on the slide rails, will that stop the wearing done on the slide rails, or can that not be done, or it won't stop the wearing down of the slide rails?

Thanks