westczek
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Posts posted by westczek
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Still a little far out for the weather man I guess, no more snow in the forecast and temps up to 37! I won't be fumbling my reloads with that kind of warm up...
Westczek
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Forrest,
I saw the rules allowed me to throw in my 7-shot cylinder and I just wanted to know where that put me in the equipment race
Westczek
BTW -- The forecast says 35 degrees and snowing!
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Forrest,
Sounds fun. Do you know what the starting time is for the match? And you haven't gotten an 8 shot yet have you?
Westczek
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Forrest,
Sounds fun. Do you know what the starting time is for the match? And you haven't gotten an 8 shot yet have you?
Westczek
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Glad t hear you foud him a gun. I look forward to welcoming him to revolver division. I'm really going to have to practice now... And he'll probably be shooting MAJOR too!
Westczek
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Ahh, the throats. Yes that could have something to do with it too. I have to admit I forgot all about that issue. I wonder what would happen with .357 diameter bullets vs the .358I'm using now. Could be interesting... Just to see what it would do to the data.
Westczek
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Snertly, Forrest,
Great. I thought that was how it works. And Forrest hit the nail on the head, I need to increase my load a little to make power factor in the 4 inch gun. I might just leave the stainless cylinder (the faster, less gap) in the 4 inch gun. Basicaly split the differnce.
Westczek
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Maybe I don't understand what a crane stretcher does... I was under the impression it was to reduce front to back play, pushing the cyliner backward toward the firing pin for proper head space. I thought the only way to reduce the barrel cylinder gap was to setback the barrel.
I switched just the cylinders the yoke/cranes were left on the original guns. Wouldn't this point to the cylinders being of differnt demisions, rather than any issue with the crane?
BTW-- Snertly, you said that the velocity was the same in both guns after stretching. Did the velocity go up in the slower gun to match the faster gun or down in the faster gun to match the velcity of slower gun?
Thanks for the advice, any reason to buy some new tools
Westczek
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Here is one for the other cyliner switchers out there.
I was testing some 38 Short Colt loadings today to try and make minor reliabley out of a 4 inch S&W 686. I'm already getting good numbers out of my 6 inch 686 (130 pf). The loads were slower out of the 4 inch, but a little slowing than I had expected.
This 4 inch gun is using a replacement blue 6 shot cyliner, the original was a stainless 7 shot. For some reason, my father suggested swapping the cylinders between the 4 and 6 inchers.
With the same ammo, velocity dropped in the 6 incher and rose in the 4 incher when the cyliners were swapped. It is hard to say, but the barrel/cylineder gap looks like it may be a little greater on either gun when the slower cyliner is used. I'll have to measure that.
The increase in the 4 inch gun with the faster cyliner was getting it to averaging a little over 800 fps, almost enough to reliably get minor. With the slow cylinder it was averaging about 25 fps lower.
Westczek
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I've been using 4.5 grns of Unique for 38 special behind 158 grn poly-coated lead round nose bullet. I get about 850 fps out of a 6 inch barreled 686.
Westczek
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Dave,
So not reveal any proprietary information, am I right that its not just the thickness of your moonclips, but also the larger diameter which allows them to securely hold the Starline Brass?
Westczek
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Lee makes 38 Short Colt sets, so does RCBS I believe, but I think most folks are using a mix of 38 Special and 9 mm Lugar dies.
I use 38 Special decapper and sizer, and 9 mm belling, seating and taper crimp dies. I'm using moly-coated 158 grn 358 cal bullets, so I can only use a taper crimp. A roll crimp would cut thhe moly coating. Taper crimps don't wear out the case mouth as fast either.
Westczek
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Lone Star Hydro,
Glad to hear you found a load that works for you. Seams hot, I'm going for minor, using 9 mm luger loading data. I'm using Solo 1000 and going for a velocity closer to 850 fps.
Check your order on the moonclips. The 0.035 inch thickness clips are for 38 Super, which is just about Short Colt on Tom's website. Short Colt is 0.025 inch.
Westczek
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Lone Star Hydro,
I look forward to hearing about your results. The TK Custom 0.022 inch moonclips I have for Remington brass will hold the Starline brass. However, one or two rounds on each moonclip won't really click in and can get knock out easily. I wasn't satisfied that they would stay in place during competition. And I would suspect just as my Remington cases have gotten looser after many reloading, the Starline Brass will also wear and get looser.
Just as an aside and I don't know if this matters, I bought the Remington compatible moonclips from Brownell's about two years ago. I also bout the no-name 0.020 inch thick 7 shot clips Brownell's maybe three years ago. I'm not sure about the manufacture of the 7 shot clips, for some reason, but I think they might be Ranch Products. The new Hearthco moonclips I bought from TK Custom's website.
Westczek
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Ok, I used Short Colt for the first time in a USPSA match today. Since I was shooting minor anyway, I'm sold.
Westczek
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Rob,
I have both 6 and 7 shot cylinders cut for moonclips. However, the moonclips I have for the 7 shot are 0.020 inch thick and I use them with Rem or Federal brass, so kind of floppy. I have a couple of thicker 7 shot TK Custom moonclips 0.022 inch, they work pretty good, maybe better than the six-shot moonclips of the same thickness.
That being said, I have never done much of a head to head comparison between the six and seven shot setups. I only use my seven shot for Steel Challenge, with no on-the-clock reloads, and of course my rare attempt at USPSA open division classification.
My new six-shot moonclip setup, Hearthco 0.025 inch thick clips and Starline Short Colt works much better than my other setups. I got to try it out in a match today. As you know, I'm not so fast, but I believe it did help me reduce the fumble factor. The cartridges were all pointing nice and straight and, at least in my mind, the reloads appeared easier.
Westczek
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I went with the Hearthco moonclips because I got Starline 38 Short Colt brass and found out that the moonclips I already had did hold the Starline Brass.
Remington and Federal brass works well with the 0.022 inch thick moonclips of smaller than Hearthco diameter. Winchester brass works with 0.020 inch thick moonclips of the smaller diameter as well.
The Hearthco and Starline combination is the most ridged, which works best. However, the 0.022 inch and Remington or Federal is pretty good. The Winchester is more hit or miss. There are other headstamps that match Remington and Federal or match winchester. I even was given some 38 special brass the other day with no groove at all.
When it comes to rimmed cartridge brass and moonclips pick one or two compatible headstamps and stick with them.
Westczek
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I thought I would share some details about 38 Special/Short Colt Starline brass and Hearthco moonclips. The Starline brass has a taller groove above the rim than other brands of brass which accommodates thicker moonclips. The Hearthco moonclips are 0.025 inch thick, which help to reduce wobble. Other moonclips are 0.020 or 0.022 inch. I know everyone knows that already, it's come up more than a few times.
However, what I didn't realize before buying them was that that the groove on the brass is also deeper and the Hearthco moonclips also have a larger overall diameter, 1.254 inch. This means the opening for each cartridge on the clip can also be tighter. The Starline brass doesn't reliably stay in my smaller TK Custom 0.022 inch moonclips, those moonclips have a diameter of 1.215 inch.
The Starline brass and Hearthco moonclip combination is really nice. Each cartridge rotates easily, but wobbles very very little. Each cartridge is locked in securely.
One cautionary note. If you choose to go this route and your cylinder is already cut for a smaller diameter moonclip the Hearthco moonclips may not fit. In that case you will need to get the cylinder machined out a little more. Something to keep in mind before having a cylinder cut.
Westczek
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I'm finally making the switch to Short Colt from Specials. I think the main thing I'm looking for is a shorter stroke on the ejector rod and fewer hangups. It probably won't help me a huge amount, but I wanted to try it. I'm not sure how much the Short Colt will help in loading and I will unlikely be able to tell. I'm switching to Starline Brass and Hearthco clips which reduce the wobble, a lot. I was using thinner clips and Remington Brass in my 38 Special setup.
Westczek
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Jeff,
Glad you appreciated the revolver humor.
Westczek
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I use a four post version with the posts turned to a smaller diameter for the six-shot 686. I picked it because it is very simple and compact. It takes up less space on my belt than the two double mag pouches I use in my production division rig. It is also reasonably priced compared to other options out there. Bob makes a great product.
Westczek
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Is the model 58 already cut for moonclips? Most guns made for rimed cartridges need to be milled for the clips, at about $100.
Westczek
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It's hard to beat the nice holes cut into paper by wadcutters, but I wouldn't mess around with differnt bullet types.
Find an economical round nose, lead or coated. I've not had as much luck with plated. Moly coated or plated cannot be roll crimped, it cuts the coating. Lead can be roll crimped, but with USPSA and practice ammo recoil have never had a problem with bullets coming lose. The tapper crimp should be tight enough.
Get that basic setup and have diffent powder loads setup for sub-minor for teaching and minor for USPSA. For heavy 357 mag loads roll crimps will be more important.
For USPSA and other non-IDPA games you may want to consider a moonclip conversion, It is about $100, moonclips can be pricey, bu if you don't already have six speed loaders and carriers, it might be the way to go.
Westczek
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Yes congradulations to Josh for his win and to all the other revolver shooters for picking a lovely day to shoot. It was a pleasure shooting with two of the three Robs shooting revo in the match.
Westczek
REVO Squad at the Black Creek Steel shoot 1-8-11
in Revolver Match Announcements and Discussions
Posted
Forrest,
I'm all loaded and ready. Looks like a dusting at most on Friday. Saturday is looking good. And I'm leaving the 7-shot cylinder in safe. Sticking with the 6-shot.
Westczek