wsimpso1
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Posts posted by wsimpso1
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How good do you need your ammo? What are the targets?
55 and 62 grain handloads from a benchrest will group 2-3 minutes from an excellent barrel, which is 6" to 9" at 300 yards. That is OK on full sized gong or flash targets at 300 yards, but you would have to be perfectly centered and with a perfect hold to still miss some of the shots on 8" plates or the alpha zone on the IPSC target.
69 and 77 grain BTHP handloads like are used in highpower are capable of more like 1/2 to 1 minute from a good barrel, and drift less in the wind than 55 and 62 grain ball bullets. Both bullets are good, but 77 grain has become favored because it moves less in a varying wind than the 69. My handload is Win cases, Rem 7 1/2 primers, RL15 powder, and moly 77 grain BTHP bullets, either Sierra or Nosler.
Calibration Time. The 300 yard Rapid Prone High Power 10 ring is 7 inches and the x ring is 3 inches. It is shot from standing to prone, with a mag change, ten shots in 70 seconds, and usually with two sighters and two strings. The best that has ever been done is two strings with 100-10x each, and a third with 100-8x or 9x.
I think that it is safe to say that we will have less stable positions and more time pressure, so your ammo and rifle need to be good to give you a chance if the targets are no full size gongs.
Billski
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I did the scotch tape trick, and recently removed it entirely. The big deal is just training the brain to not use the image of the front sight from the off side eye, and that takes time looking at the sights. I had tape on my glasses for my whole first season... Now I can do without the tape, and my speed on negotiating CoF and transitioning from target to target has noticiably improved.
Billski
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Rika,
Congrats. Very cool! As one who is just getting there himself, I know how big a moment it is when you see the whole shot and recoil.
Most of the time, I lose the sight part way through the lift and then pick it back up as the the gun returns, but sometimes I see the whole thing, and it does seem to be happening more often. Keep your awareness and it will get better...
Billski
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Cross Training Story:
Even in High Power, where we are working on really steady hold and squeeze techniques, the "approach method" has found favor in Offhand. David Tubb (something like eleven NRA High Power championships) writes about it in his books... To calibrate you, the MR target used at 200 yards for Offhand has a 7" ten ring. Shots are taken one at a time, with the target pulled and marked (about an eight second lag for the marking) between shots, and you are allowed 22 minutes for two sighters and 20 shots, so you are really allowed all of the time your really need for this stage.
Using the technique in High Power, you set up to have NPA that is ON, the gun comes in from whereever you get the best repeatablity (right handed High Power shooters usually build their position from above and to the right, and settle down and left toward their NPA on the target). As it settles toward the center, you start your squeeze so that as you get centered the trigger is near the break, and with just a moment of confirmation on center, it breaks. With a nice follow-through, it works great. It does take practice to get it figured out, and discipline to back off the trigger if it is not running right (wind changes, it is not tracking to the center, etc). Even I have fired at 96% or better the last few matches that I entered. 7" at 200 yards is tough - the best that has ever been done in a Regional or National Match on that target is 200-15x.
I think that it is applicable to the pistol in high speed shooting. Brian Enos talks about it in his book. You have read Brian's book, haven't you? Doing it with the Glock might be a bit tougher than with a 1911 derivative, but still doable.
Good luck with new techniques...
Billski
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A used Rem M1100 for cheap is the way to go if coin is short. I got one with a 21" rifle sighted smoothbore barrel for $225, added a DMW feed ramp and 3" shell carrier, Williams Fire front sight, ghost ring rear sight, side saddle shell holder, and then did some careful de-horning of the loading path. I now have a competitive shotgun that shoots where it is pointed and is completely reliable. Including the CCW shell trays for the belt, I have less than $500 in it.
A used M870 is also a really good choice, and you can slick up both the operation and loading path to speed it up too. I have seen them for $175.
Some things to check on any used M1100:
Spin off the magazine cap, remove the barrel, and replace the cap. Slide the piston and seal back and look for signs of rust on the mag tube. Lube is good, crunchy with rust requires a deeper look. If the o ring is beat up, that is OK, just buy a pack of 20 from Eric W (on this forum)... A little rust on the tube where the gas cylinder sits can be wire brushed off, but if the rust is bad or it has deep pitting, skip the gun. Check that the long shell latch is firmly in place - this can be staked to be fixed, and is a routine fix. On the opposite wall of the reciever, check that the intercepter latch is present and OK. This is a pivoting latch with a hair spring. A boss and c-clip hold it in place, and it costs money to fix if the boss is messed up. Trigger assemblies are usually loaded with powder residue, a bit of gun scrubber and then oil will fix all of that.
Other threads on this forum cover fixes for all of this, improving the loading path, and fixing the intercepter latch. Pat Sweeney's book is recommended too.
Once you get started with the M1100, you might find that is all that you need.
Billski
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It seems like you are working too hard at a glasses solution. If putting the images from both eyes together is so hard, just don't put them together.
I have had cataract syrgery, so my eyes are focused wherever the lenses take me. I also have some cross dominance problems. My compromise is aiming eye corrected for front sight, non-aiming eye corrected for distance, and then a tape spot on the non-aiming eye just where it should be to block the sights. You can still put in prism, but you will not need any bifocal or progressive if these are purely shooting glasses. That made for cheap lenses, so some iteration to get the correction just right for shooting was Ok too. It works great, even with the shotgun or rifle.
I have found that I have trained myself to not notice the image from the left eye (by learning to mentally focus on the shooting eye) and have omitted the tape.
I like shooting L-10 and CDP, so I am glad that this worked out.
Good Luck,
Billski
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686+,
I am a believer in "runwhatchagot" until you are ready to dedicate equipment to any game. You really do not need to spend money to do your first couple matches...
I like to have 50 rounds available (between gun and reloads) for rifle and pistol events, and 27 for shotgun. That is more than you need to cover contingincies.
If you have high cap mags for the pistol, one in the gun and two on the belt, plus the stripper mag in a pocket is plenty as a spare is plenty. Serious competitors go a couple more, but you are not there yet.
For an SKS, the correct milsurp ammo pouch with four or five full stripper clips plus a full magazine should work great.
Shotgun is about loading. A standard magazine plus any way to carry another dozen shells is fine.
Much more important than the equipment is to know your zero. If possible, the pistol and shotgun should shoot to the point of aim at 25 yards and the rifle should shoot there at 50 yards. The psitol and shotgun will be fine from zero to 50 yards that way. You will need to have some idea of your holdovers for further out for rifle. I see more wasted ammo and disappointed shooters for not knowing where the gun hits... Know that before the match.
After you try the game, then you can decide how much money and effort to spend.
Billski
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If you are only shooting short range courses (<100 yards) with lots of CQB and full size targets, it should work fine.
If, on the other hand, you see plate racks at 200+m, flash targets or hard cover, I would go for a more all-around rifle. 18" to 20" rifle, medium contour, 1.5-5x scope, and plain float tube fore-end will do everything.
If you want it light too, short pencil thin barrel - use a carbon fore-end and lower/buttstock to shave weight without losing the steadiness and repeat shot speed.
Billski
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Frankly, the ideal barrel depends on what the courses of fire are that you anticipate, and where you stand on weight slowing your target transitions versus weight helping your repeat shot times. Since most of us want our rifle to do everthing well, the trend looks like it is to medium weight barrels...
Here in SE Michigan, all COF's are short with only a few shots out to 100 yards, and no poppers or flash targets are used. For that, you would want a 16" or 18" barrel. Red dot or 1x to 1.5x sights on a rail are just about perfect. The shorter barrel gives quicker handling as you negotiate COF and faster target-to-target transitions, but slows down your shot-to-shot and degrades your steadiness on long stuff.
If your COF's regularly have shots out to 300 m, a longer, heavier barrel is a distinct plus for steadiness, ability to hold, and wind drift (being a High Power shooter until recently, I can attest to the truth in all of this). A scope is helpful. 18" to 20" HBAR or heavier profile and scope to 5x or 6x is great for all this. The rifle will hold steadier and shoot better than a short pencil barrel, but it will be slower on target-to-target transitions.
My belief is that if you are going to build (and train with) one upper, let it do everything. Flat top reciever, medium contour 18" or 20" barrel from a good maker, plain free float handgaurd, brake, rail to extend the scope platform forward for eye relief and to allow emegency irons. This way it will give up little on 300 m plates and still be pretty quick handling on close-in stuff. Mine looks like this with a 1.5-5x 20mm scope. If you want to shave weight, go with a carbon lower or a light buttstock assembly and a carbon float tube.
So, how about that, you still pays your money and takes your choices...
Billski
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If I remember it correctly, he had a GG&G Scout Rail. I recognized it because that is what I have. The Scout Rail lets you put the scope far enough forward for it to work in just about any position you can work out of. Add in my stock crawling tendencies, and it just plain works.
He had a set of high see-through rings on top of that and then what looked like a low power Leupold. I really do not understand the high see-through rings with that scope. A solid cheek weld, like he used in the cover shot puts him looking through the base - perhaps on a really close target. The drawback is that he then has to lift his head to use the glass... If the scope he had is the one that I think it is, it has a terrific wide field of view and at a low power setting can be used for everything, even arm's length shots. Perhaps Judd Whitfield will join in and tell us how he used this set up, how well it worked, and what, if anything, he would change about it.
I use mid hieght rings and the Pro Diamond, and for me, it is fantastic. Shoulder the rifle and it shoots where I am looking, all of the way out to 200 yards. If we had much out beyond 100 yards in matches around here, I could see spending the money on a Leupold that is parralax free at 200 yards and with 1/4 minutes clicks. We don't, so the Pro Diamond is great.
Billski
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I always try to counsel folks to run what ya got until you are are sure that you love the game, then you can spend money. In other words, shoot your pistol (whatever it is), shot gun (whatever it is, even a double), and any autoloading rifle or carbine (whatever it is, including M-1 Rifle, 30 Carbine, Kalishnakov, Mini14). Then there is the He-Man game, where .45 pistols, pump shotguns and .30 cal rifles are the rule. A shooter with decent action pistol, M870 with a long magazine, and issue grade AR15 has guns that give up a lot less time than their shooting will for awhile.
The big deal in the shotgun game is loading. Loading is what sets the time for most stages. You can shoot a M870 empty far faster than you can reload it, and everybody shooting an auto is doing the same thing you are. So, practice stuffing shells into the gun. An autoeject double is not terrible if you are fast about breaking it and popping another pair of shells into it. Think about that...
Your M870 with an extended mag and a side saddle will pretty well take care of things. In Michigan, we shoot shotgun stages at 25 yards and less, so the bead and long barrel really is not much of an issue. Maybe NC is different, check with some folks who shoot locally to be sure.
The big thing is to take some big pieces of paper to the pattern board and see where your gun puts its patterns at several distances. Same for slugs if they get used in your neck of the woods. I have seen more misses with bird shot on 10 yard targets because the shooter did not know where to put the bead and the pattern was small.
At LAMR, you can load from the box or a pocket, it is no big deal if you are slow. For loading during the stage, the side saddle works fine, but around here, you will frequently need a couple more rounds to finish each stage. Pockets work for a while. I bought a couple of belt mounted shell trays (they are talked about elsewhere on this forum) to speed my loading on the clock.
Loading from the side saddle (or belt) can be done several ways, which are also talked about elsewhere on this forum. All of them involve pulling the shells from the bottom of the sidesaddle. Then you can do the Cooley twist (maintain your weakhand grip and roll the gun towards you) for strong hand loading or high and tight for weakhand loading. Both work.
So, know where your gun hits, and practice your loading. If you love the game, you have lots of options. We'll all be here to talk about that too
Billski
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anttiman,
The rail you have there looks really close to the GG&G Scout that I have and should be excellent.
Which ring height you use is another matter, and is largely a matter of personal head/neck shoulder shape personal choice. I use medium rings - low rings caused me to really have to get down on the stock to see through the scope, and high rings required me to lift my head off of the comb, but medium rings were "just right". Some folks with a really slender neck and face could probably get away with low rings, and somebody with a wide face might need high rings.
Remember to play with fore and aft position of the sight while doing transitions, prone, and kneeling. You need a position and ring height that works on just about everything.
Hit the middle,
Billski
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Thanks for weighing in Pat (It has more authority when you say it). Sometime when I am at LGC, I will meet you and shake your hand.
Billski
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Cool.
The worst case of bolt short stroking I have ever seen was an absolutely beuatiful Space Gun built by one of the big 'smiths. Clean and oiled, it would work, and then during a couple Sitting Rapid strings, the empties would progress around from 4 o'clock to 1 o'clock, and falling closer with each shot too, until finally it just would not get back far enough to eject. A bunch of us looked over the rifle throughly, cleaned the carrier and bolt, checked gas tube and carrier fit, changed the gas tube, checked the carrier screws and the buffer, just could not figure out what would progressively stop the rifle in ten rounds. Finally and out of desperation, the owner swapped out the one piece ring for conventional rings, and it worked... A whole bunch of us learned that the GI parts are a pretty good idea right there. The only malf I ever had in one of my Service Rifles was while I had the spiral ring in it. It now wears standard rings.
Now onto what really appears to be your problem. It does sound like you may have a throat that is close and got fouled. If it fouls quickly enough that it sticks bullets again, and cleaning it fixes it again, you probably have either a tight spot in the throat or it is simply a short and tight throat. There are several remedies:
Different bullets;
Fire lap - Thoroughly clean the gun and then run a set of Tubb fire lapping bullets through it per the directions. That will slick up a chrome bore, smooth out any rough spots in the chrome, make cleaning easier, and make the throat accumulate less fouling. If you have a chrome chamber and bore, this is about all that you can do to the throat;
If it is not a chrome bore, the best solution may be to have a Wylde reamer put into the chamber. That reamer gives excellent accuracy and great function. The throat is not as long as the NATO reamer, but does have a 0.2240 cylindrical part. Following the reamer with Tubb bullets is a good idea too.
Talk to us...
Billski
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Has the rifle been used with neck sealed ammo? US GI type and many foriegn ammo use asphalt sealer on the neck, and it can gum up the throat a bit. If so, a couple patches with lacquer thinner will help a bunch.
I would bet on a fouled throat and/or bullets over 0.2240". Solvent and chamber brush, then solvent and bore brush, and then JB or similar mild abrasive should clear it up unless the bullets are bigger than the throat.
Report back when you know what fixed it so that we can know...
Billski
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Wow. Lots of cool info here. I should not be surprised that ported and brake equiped M1100's need that big a gas port.
My biggest worry had to do with guys I have seen with M1100's that are absolutely lousy with fouling from powder, shot, and wads. One guy had trouble functioning, and then on UASC, rounds would not exit the magazine tube. Another guy had big buildups of fouling, including wad shavings, showing down the ports in the foreend. We KNOW that these guys need to clean their guns first.
I had wondered what the purpose of multiple o-rings was... If the result really was a fractional locking of the locking lug into the barrel hood, it would scare me but good. What really happens is that the lug goes home, but you shorten the free travel of the action bars before unlock occurs. Now these guns are designed to have enough free travel to allow pressures from stout loads to drop before unlocking, so if you reduce the free travel and only shoot light loads, you are covered for lug engagement, just opening sooner than you would otherwise... You are messing with the finely tuned mechanism, but I suspect that it is not really messing with things too badly, so long as you only fire light loads in the gun while the free travel is reduced.
Billski
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George, your M1187 must indeed be a special case - what is non-standard on it? Short barrel? JP Brake? Porting? Extra power action spring? Something else? All of the above?
You guys that drill out your gas ports and then tell others about it scare me a bit... Drilling out the ports is talked about a bunch and it is not a solution to most functioning problems.
First things first. All M1100's need some rounds through them to smooth out the action, and then all shotguns can use some light stoning or lapping of rough spots. Reading Pat's book is a good idea.
If the gun has not been cleaned/lubed recently, the gas system drags on the fouling and drilling the ports is unlikely to fix it. In fact, the M1100 piston and seal bind up harder on any crud when you increase the port size, so you may make things worse by drilling when you have a crusty mag tube or cylinder...
Next, M1100's like to be clean and oiled. If it has been 400 rounds or a month or you do not know how long it has been since it was cleaned, it is time to detail clean the trigger group, wipe the gas system, clean the gas ports and remove any crust or crud. Plastic wads and lead shot and powder residues will foul the ports and cylinder. Find out what port size your gun has and include a number drill of that size in your cleaning kit. Hold it in a pin vise or a drill chuck and push it through the port, but do not spin it with the drill motor. Polish off any rust on the mag tube or cylinder. Oil the tube, piston, seal, and cylinder. Buy o-rings from Eric and replace them frequently. Eric would prefer that you replace them every cleaning, but some of us clean everytime out and if that is after only 40 rounds, well, you might wait another session.
If you have a Limited or Tactical M1100 made from a skeet or trap gun, your gas ports should be about right. My M1100 deer barrel works great with the factory drilling.
If you have cut your barrel, either taking length off of it or with ports and/or brakes, you may need to open the gas port. This is because the gas system was balanced for certain loads, their pressure curve and the time that the gas is on the port. When you take off pressure early (porting and brakes dump pressure), not enough impulse is put on the piston and it can give short recoil. Another path to malfunctions is a magnum gun with light loads. The gas port is sized for the heavy loads, and may need to be opened up.
Here is the tech issue - the flow rate will go roughly with the fourth power of diameter, so a little can go a long ways - go in small steps. Does your gun always choke or just once in a while? If your gun only chokes once in a while or only after a hundred rounds from clean, you are close. Bump the orifice only a few thousandths and go shoot. If it chokes on all shots, it might need a couple iterations of drill and shoot to be fixed, but you still want to stay with small steps.
Now if you are trying to make light skeet rounds work in a 3" gun, you will need to bump the orifice quite a bit, and once you do you can not go back to heavy waterfowling loads. Perhaps another barrel is a better idea.
Now what is wrong with just drilling the orifice bigger? Well, if you do just enlarge it a bunch, the bolt velocities will go way up, and that just beats up the gun and your shoulder. I do not know about you, but I am faster and have more fun when the gun does not hit me as hard. And the issue of the gun getting beat up matters only if you want the gun to last once you have it taking down targets quickly.
Now if you enlarge the port until the the gun functions without the o-ring, and then put in the o-ring, I do not know if you will over-drive the action a bunch or not. I do remember our people finding no o-ring on guns that were working fine and disassembled for routine cleaning, so perhaps the orifice difference between no o-ring and o-ring is small.
That's all the news that fits.
Billski
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Perspectives from two other shooting sports feeds into my tactical rifle approach: High Power for those precisely released tough shots and Skeet/Trap for the close in quick transition shots.
First, I am assuming that you are talking unsupported positions, because supported positions (prone, kneeling, sitting, barricades, etc) are a different deal.
Unsupported positions require you to do it all with your hands, arms, shoulders, and back. Oh, your head is in there too, but mostly to get your eye behind the sight. Some shooters do like to set up tension between the head and the hands, but I reserve that for supported positions and .30 caliber rifles.
Most tactical rifle is at relatively easy distances for a rifle, and I like the shotgunner's posture with the elbows out and down (roughly at a 30-45 degree angle from horizontal), with the front hand fairly far out on the forend and pulling back slightly. The pistol grip hand is pulling back more than the front hand, but not a huge pull, just enough to make it set in the shoulder. My body is facing somewhere between downrange and to the strong side. This combination speeds transitions and recoil recovery, but can lack some smoothness for tough shots. I try to set my NPA on the middle of the target array or if you have several targets spread out laterally, rotate position far enough around to the weak hand side to minumize moving the feet.
For the tougher shots whether they be long ones or partial coverage with hard cover or no-shoots, I like to bring the front hand back with the hand wrapped around the front of the mag well and the V between thumb and forefinger cradling the forend, and the elbow below the rifle. The pistol grip elbow comes up at a higher angle. If you are shooting an M-1A or similar rifle, the elbow may actually be above the shoulder, and the pistol grip hand is pulling pretty hard. The body and feet are facing pretty much towards the strong hand side, with the NPA pointed at the center of the target array unless they are really tough, in which case I move my feet for each target. This position is built to allow steadiness and looks a bunch like a High Power or Rifle Silhouette shooter. Since these fine rifle shooters have a three-minute pay value, they are good to emulate when you are trying hit tough targets offhand.
Just one guys take on it, borrowing from other games.
Billski
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Darn. I have already signed up for the Michigan IDPA match on the same weekend, and yes, we are shooting both days... Do you folks shoot a regular three gun match? I could find my way there easily enough (little airplane).
Billski
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Brian Enos: Thanks for the kind words. Now if I was actually watching the whole shot myself, I would go a long ways towards drivng the gun.
Mentioned in this thread was the issue of the shooter not noticing the gun locking open. Last night a friend and I were doing a short drills and we were loading each other's mags in order to have the guns lock open unexpectedly. What a surprise it was for each of us when we tried to shoot a gun at slide lock.
We talked about it for a while too. When I shot less and the recoil of my .45 bothered me, I was very aware of slide lock. I suspect that while I have gotten to the point where the recoil pulse from the .45 has become more comfortable - I am a recoil wimp - I have been learning to ignore the recoil pulse, and in the process, I have been ignoring the difference between loading feel and lock feel. It seems to be a reminder to be aware of what is going on...
My primary history in shooting is High Power, where the difference in feel when loading vs locking open is obvious to me. In the pistol, I believe that we do have to see AND feel the gun cycle. While I too am learning to watch the slide cycle, I am obviously not there yet.
Anybody with more thoughts on how to actually see or feel this?
Billski
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I recently built a Tactical (Scope) upper with a regular flat top reciever and a GG&G Scout rail, mid hieght rings and a 1.5-5x scope. The reason for a plain flat top and then the extended half inch riser rail is several:
The scopes with big field of view have to ride pretty well forward, and the front ring would be out in space not on the reciever, so an extension forward was needed;
I get a pretty good cheek weld at the same 2.6 inches above bore that the issue sisghts give, so that hieght is what I was working towards;
Folding iron sights can be installed behind the Scout Rib and on the gas block as emergency sights should the glass be out of action.
The extended high rail version could have worked except that they will not take the emergency sights.
It does make a rifle that is a gas to shoot.
Billski
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First off, my approach is the foam plugs followed by the same thin Peltors that Zak pointed out.
The reasons are several:
First and foremost, I too have found that molded plugs (three different sets of molded ear plugs plus a pair of custom ear inserts for an aviation communications headset) do not work for me. Apparently I have too much taper and not enough curve in my outer ear channels to make them stay in, so they back out. That too could be the problem for rtr and 300lbGorilla. They work fine when I press on them gently, but let go and the crashing noises jump right through...
The thin Peltors (Shot Gunner) are additive to the plugs and did not interfere with the stocks on my AR15's or my NRA Match Rifle. Works fine in tight spots (I don't knock them off) and with the rifle and shotgun.
I figure that moderate muffs on top of excellent plugs is better than good muffs that are perpetually out of position...
Billski
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Oh man, I just detected a couple of omissions and wish to correct them. The typos I will leave be.
First, you integrate the total force (gas pressure*bore area - ejecta drag) once to get velocity and twice to get travel. And you can check your calculation by seeing if you indeed get muzzle velocity at the muzzle, and you indeed get the travel down the barrel when you get the place where travel should end.
Next omission. Tanks and artillery pieces have skipped brakes for other reasons too. There are driving bands on conventional shells that are supposed to stay on the shell but that can come off as the shell clears the muzzle. If there is a brake on the muzzle, the shell's flight will be grossly disrupted by the band snagging the brake, and accuracy can be terrible, to the point of it falling on friendly forces. Then there a sabot rounds, where the sabot is discarded from the rest of the round in flight shortly after leaving the muzzle. It is important that the sabot come off of the round without disturbing it or, again, the accuracy will be none-existent. A brake will interfere with the sabot. Then there is danger to local personel if debris is residing on the brake when the gun is fired, launching the debris locally.
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Hatcher's Notebook is great.
Glad you like the responses...
Billski
Best Bullet Weight
in Rifle - Technical
Posted
Hey guys, M4Mike was talking ball bullets vs match bullets... so I was trying to address M4Mike. When you use GOOD 55 grain bullets, they can be made to shoot pretty easily. Since I was not specific enough, I will cover my Big Points (writing the summary now when earlier would have been better...):
55 and 62 grain BALL bullets are 3 minute bullets most of the time. Sometimes you can get a batch that shoots better, but do not count on it. They are probably not good enough for most of our serious targets;
Make the move from ball bullets to match or varmint bullets, like any of the other bullets mentioned, and 1/2 to 1 minute ammo is obtainable. It might take a bit of loading and shooting to find a recipe that your rifle likes, but group shooting is good for shooters' confidence;
NRA High Power shooters really put an accuracy premium on at 300 yards, and most 223 Rem shooters use 77's for 300 yards. Other people who do a chunk of work at that distance could learn from it.
End of Summary.
M4Mike, If you do a bunch of shooting at 300 yards on full size gong targets, the ball bullets might be OK. If you are working on racks of 8" plates and other similarly difficult targets, you probably should use better bullets. After that, it is just a matter of deciding if you will buy reduced wind drift with the heavier bullets and a different zero, or if using one lighter weight bullet for everything is better.
Does that clear everything up?
Billski