BSComp
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On 11/21/2017 at 11:20 AM, Waldokill said:
WST - 3.9gr - 135 TC Blue bullets - 1.100 - 132 pf - Stock 2
The data below goes to show why it's important to work up a load. This data is out of a Shadow 2, which has had no modifications and using a stock barrel.
Created: 01/07/18 03:06 PM
Description: 3.5 Titegroup 124g BBI
Notes 1: 9mm. Shadow 2. 3.5 Titegroup. 1.10 OAL. 124g BBI
Distance to Chrono (FT): 15.00
Bullet Weight (gr): 125.00
Temp: 53 °F
BP: 30.12 in Hg# FPS FT-LBS PF
10 1066 315.46 133.25
9 1040 300.26 130.00
8 1048 304.89 131.00
7 1066 315.46 133.25
6 1037 298.53 129.62
5 1041 300.83 130.12
4 1028 293.37 128.50
3 1048 304.89 131.00
2 1042 301.41 130.25
1 1053 307.81 131.62Average: 1046.9 FPS
SD: 12.2 FPS
Min: 1028 FPS
Max: 1066 FPS
Spread: 38 FPS
Created: 01/07/18 03:08 PM
Description: 3.5 WST 135g BBI
Notes 1: 9mm Shadow 2 1.10 OAL
Distance to Chrono (FT): 15.00
Bullet Weight (gr): 135.00
Temp: 53 °F
BP: 30.12 in Hg# FPS FT-LBS PF
10 926 257.08 125.01
9 956 274.01 129.06
8 961 276.88 129.74
7 993 295.63 134.05
6 973 283.84 131.35
5 992 295.03 133.92
4 956 274.01 129.06
3 949 270.01 128.12
2 939 264.35 126.76
1 969 281.51 130.82Average: 961.4 FPS
SD: 21.3 FPS
Min: 926 FPS
Max: 993 FPS
Spread: 67 FPS
Created: 01/07/18 03:10 PM
Description: 3.6 WST 135g BBI
Notes 1: 9mm. Shadow 2. 3.6 WST. 1.10. 135g BBI
Distance to Chrono (FT): 15.00
Bullet Weight (gr): 135.00
Temp: 54 °F
BP: 30.12 in Hg# FPS FT-LBS PF
10 977 286.18 131.90
9 976 285.59 131.76
8 986 291.48 133.11
7 946 268.31 127.71
6 976 285.59 131.76
5 985 290.89 132.98
4 985 290.89 132.98
3 945 267.74 127.57
2 954 272.86 128.79
1 959 275.73 129.46Average: 968.9 FPS
SD: 16.3 FPS
Min: 945 FPS
Max: 986 FPS
Spread: 41 FPS
Created: 01/07/18 03:12 PM
Description: 3.7 WST 135g BBI
Notes 1: 9mm. Shadow 2. 3.7 WST. 1.10. 135g BBI
Distance to Chrono (FT): 15.00
Bullet Weight (gr): 135.00
Temp: 54 °F
BP: 30.12 in Hg# FPS FT-LBS PF
10 949 270.01 128.12
9 1015 308.87 137.02
8 1033 319.93 139.46
7 1029 317.45 138.91
6 973 283.84 131.35
5 1006 303.42 135.81
4 968 280.93 130.68
3 1000 299.81 135.00
2 979 287.35 132.16
1 973 283.84 131.35Average: 992.5 FPS
SD: 28.2 FPS
Min: 949 FPS
Max: 1033 FPS
Spread: 84 FPS
Created: 01/07/18 03:15 PM
Description: 3.8 WST 135g BBI
Notes 1: 9mm. Shadow 2. 3.8 WST. 1.10. 135g BBI
Distance to Chrono (FT): 15.00
Bullet Weight (gr): 135.00
Temp: 54 °F
BP: 30.12 in Hg# FPS FT-LBS PF
10 1000 299.81 135.00
9 999 299.21 134.87
8 987 292.07 133.24
7 1013 307.66 136.76
6 1013 307.66 136.76
5 1017 310.09 137.29
4 989 293.25 133.51
3 978 286.77 132.03
2 975 285.01 131.62
1 994 296.23 134.19Average: 996.5 FPS
SD: 14.7 FPS
Min: 975 FPS
Max: 1017 FPS
Spread: 42 FPS
Created: 01/07/18 03:18 PM
Description: 3.9 WST 135g BBI
Notes 1: 9mm. Shadow 2. 3.8 WST. 1.10. 135g BBI
Distance to Chrono (FT): 15.00
Bullet Weight (gr): 135.00
Temp: 54 °F
BP: 30.12 in Hg# FPS FT-LBS PF
10 1018 310.70 137.43
9 1025 314.99 138.38
8 1044 326.78 140.94
7 1007 304.02 135.95
6 1002 301.01 135.27
5 1021 312.54 137.84
4 964 278.61 130.14
3 985 290.89 132.98
2 980 287.94 132.30
1 1019 311.31 137.57Average: 1006.5 FPS
SD: 24.1 FPS
Min: 964 FPS
Max: 1044 FPS
Spread: 80 FPS -
we can agree to disagree if you like. If the shooter is walking away he either a) didn't understand what you were trying to communicate by simply repeating the range command over and over, or b ) is consciously refusing to cooperate.
b seems pretty unlikely, so it makes sense to me to just make life easier on everyone, and make it clear what you want. Note that I wasn't trying to imply that you were dickish, so I apologize if it came across that way. I have just observed people who simply repeated the same command over and over, and I have observed people who said 'can you show me clear again please', and the 2nd one gets better and more consistent results and everyone is happier.
I apologize for my lack of clarity of what I was trying to say in my original post.
What I don't do (and wouldn't want to see done to me or any other shooter, new or experienced) is say literally, "unload and show clear" until the shooter complies.
What I do, an hope others do as well, is repeat once the literal range command, "unload and show clear". Then say, "show clear" and that most always gets it done.
Because we always try our best to give the shooter the full benefit of the doubt, I assume 'A' in your scenarios and not 'B'. Also more often than not, another shooter will discuss this with the shooter after scoring is complete. But if not, I will privately discuss it with the shooter after scoring is complete. In that conversation, I try to communicate to the shooter a couple points: 1) shooter is not on the clock at this point; 2) it is in everyone's best interest that two people confirm that the gun is clear; 3) a significant amount of accidents that occur do so in the unload, show clear, and holstering process.
I hope this sheds a little better and clearer light on my initial post.
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It comes across as a lot less dickish and will get a much quicker response if you just say, 'show clear again please, I didn't see that' or something similar explaining *why* you keep repeating yourself. Yeah, I know that's not an official range command. I've used it and I've had it used on me by some *very* experienced certified RMs and it worked just fine and no kittens died.
*Please explain to me why repeating a standard range command is "dickish" when there are others in this same thread that think it is appropriate to DQ a shooter under not following the reasonable directions of a much official. Sounds like you should save your dickish comment for someone else.*
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I would repeat the RO command, "if you are finished, unload and show clear" until the shooter followed the command. Once that command was followed I would commence with the remainder of the range commands.
As an RO/CRO, I believe it is my duty to maintain a safe range. A major part (not the only) imho it's the RO and shooter properly executing and following the prescribed range commands. And they are just that, commands, not suggestions, not if you feel like its, not 'i did crappy on this stage and want to go's; they are commands prescribed by our rulebook as a measure to keep EVERYONE safe(r).
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David,
It appears that your slide is not cut correctly. In the picture below, the area in the RED circle doesn't appear to be cut the same as the area in the BLUE circle.
The extra material that appears to be there in the RED circle coincides with the location of the "denting" or "marking" on your plug.
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On 9mm, when I load longer than 1.160 and have my mags setup with a arrendondo, TT or Hardy spacer I am having issues with the bullet nose dragging on the front inside of the mag tube and preventing positive feeding in the magazine. Is anyone else having these issues?
The first step, I obviously shortened my load to 1.15-1.155, at this point I have started showing pressure signs.
Not sure were to go from here. Any thoughts?
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This is what I used. A moderate amount and stuff a rag in the tube to keep the spacer seated really well. I pulled part of the rag up through the feed lips.
Did you only apply this at the base and at the feed ramps?
Or did you somehow apply it down the entire spine of the tube?
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My 140 mags have the stock plastic spacer loose in the mag. The 170's have metal spacers glued in place.
What glue are you using?
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Stock STI 170mm mag holds 26, Grams spring and follower will give you 27. Beven told me I could use his 2.5 mm basepad and get 28 reloadable, guaranteed to fit the gage. This is what I found to be true with my mags with the stock spacer loose or metal spacers glued into place. You may get 29 if you use a Grams 4mm or Dawson SNL basepad but you may have to work on the mag to get it to go in the gage.
What glue are you using?
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HI. I have 3 140 and 1 170 mag with Grams springs and followers. I had issues with the stock mags. I had a lot of nosedives, and the follower flipped over 1 time. I spoke on the phone with Gram and he gave me some tips. Since then all my mags have been trouble free. My mags are using the Dawson Tool-less base pads.
He told me to glue the spacer in place in the mag, and to use a very light oil on the inside of the tube (run a rag through it with a little oil on it).
For me, the Grams springs and followers, and gluing the spacer in place is what helped the most.
What glue are you using?
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what glue are you using?
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JJ,
Thanks for the words of caution. My plan is to take some suggestions from this and other threads, back off them a bit and work up to "my gun's load" with a chrono.
I just figure that guys with experience in these matters are a lot better starting point than extrapolating a load from published load data. As stated in the original thread, "I accept all load data at my own risk".
Jack,
Thanks for the numbers, I'd like to get my hands on some more WAC, and I hear CFE-Pistol is awesome. I have mostly HS-6 for right now.
Thanks to both you guys!
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What are your guys OAL on the ~8.0 grn HS-6 on a 124 JHP?
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Need Load Data: 9 major, 124 jhp, 5" bbl w/ comp & no pop-holes. bbl is reamed for 1.170"
I have HS-6, Auto Comp, Silhouette, CFE Pistol.
Thanks for any load data,
I accept all load data at my own risk.
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Are all Xtreme HP's heavy plated?If you buy Xtremes in bulk you can get them for $0.067, $0.076 for heavy plate.
The accuracy of the heavy plate is pretty close to MG.
No, the regular plated bullets shoot acceptable groups at 10-15 yards, but look like a shotgun at 25. I can feel pretty confident at 25 yard headshots with the heavy plate, MG JHP blows my mind though
From Xtreme's website:
Why have competition shooters used our SPB plated bullets for years?
Because our bullets are always consistently accurate, and the plating remains attached from muzzle to target. Our Hollow Points (HP) and Heavy Plate Concave Base (HPCB) are designed for competive shooters shooting major loads. The thicker plating and base design have enhanced the accuracy on velocities from 1250fps to 1500fps.
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If you buy 2K or more of the Precision Delta - 9 mm, 124g HP they are only $89/1000 or $0.089/ea
What are peoples experience as far as accuracy compared to MG 124g HP
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If you buy Xtremes in bulk you can get them for $0.067, $0.076 for heavy plate.
The accuracy of the heavy plate is pretty close to MG.
Are all Xtreme HP's heavy plated?
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Man! People so bent out of shape over a simple reminder re fundamentals.
Didn't mean to cause such a stir. Whew!
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Can you share more details about bulk purchasing with Xtreme
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For about $1,000 skip the stipple job and get a lone wolf barrel, Sjc 11 port comp and c-more mount, cmore, ZEV ultimate trigger and magwell. Take an hour to assemble. Done.
HUGE -1 on the Lonewolf barrel, spend the $ and get at least a KKM. I have owned several Lonewolf barrels and now they are paper weights. They are okay barrels, just not for competition use. KKM, Barsto, Storm Lake, etc....
+1: SJC 11 port come, C-More, ZEV Trigger.
I use a SJC mount and heavy brass Dawson magwell.
With this setup the gun is well balanced and a blast to play with (puns intended ... lol)
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I like my 6. It's a great compromise, on long (40-50 yd) shoots on steel it doesn't "hide" the 'center' plate of the popper.
Also, It seems that you get used to what you train, play, and compete with .... so in that vein, to each there own.
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Brighter kind of = bigger. Basically the dot flares up a bit as they get really bright.
Agreed
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Aren't the Montana Gold super expensive? I shoot about 500 rounds a week and am not sure I can afford them in that quantity
About 10 cents ea. Next step down would be the Precision Delta, very close in quality, about 1 cent less. These two are pretty much interchangeable.
From there you go to plated or coated, both of which I don't like as much.
From the Manufacurer's:
Montana Gold - 9 mm, 124g HP: http://montanagoldbullet.com/index.php/9mm-124gr-jhp-152.html
3,750 bullets @ $360/case = $0.096 per bullet
Precision Delta - 9 mm, 124g HP: http://precisiondelta.com/index.php/products/bullet/9mm/bullets-9mm-124-jhp.html
1,000 bullets/case @ $117/case = $0.117 per bullet
Xtreme Bullets - 9 mm, 124g HP: http://www.xtremebullets.com/9mm-124-HP-p/xc9mm-124hp-b0500.htm
500 bullets/case @ $46.48/case = $0.093 per bullet
It seems for three tenths of a cent ( $0.003 = 0.096 - 0.093) that MG HP are the way to go.
Just my $0.02.
Winchester 244
in 9mm/38 Caliber
Posted
superdude
rowdyb
Have you continued to use 244 for the season? report back any results, thoughts, opinions?
I'm interested in getting some and figured I'd get some more feedback from you all first. I'm looking to use for 9 minor through a Shadow 2.
Thanks