Rocky Patel

Thank you sir . Now to actually get good at it. Can talk the talk. Now gotta learn to walk the walk.... I'm hoping all my studying will speed up the walking thing to RUN the RUN.. BTW: But in 2 years your were top 5. I've figured this much out and it made me also top 5....................................If you flip the list upside down. R

Welcome! to your newest future addiction. I'm sorta in your same boat. I actually have never shot a real 3-gun match myself. That rifle match was just rifle. I've shot 2 gun matches with Pistol and Shotgun and a bunch of just pistol but not all 3 together YET. . I couldn't find a 3 gun match close by to get my feet wet with out driving 6 hours or so. However coming in Jan my good friend Paul is starting up Atlanta's first dedicated 3 gun monthly. Here's an excerpt from ATL3Gun on Facebook. Atlanta 3-Gun is an organization dedicated to the promotion of 3-Gun competition hosted at South River Gun Club in Conyers, GA on the 3rd Sunday of every month. Website http://www.atlanta3gun.com Their face book page is Atlanta 3 gun I'm very excited to to have a monthly match that's local. Great was to sharpen/learn your skills and not cost an arm and a leg taking days off, renting motels, etc, etc, etc... I am quite sure I can speak for Paul and say "Come out and shoot with us, we'd love to have you." Seems to be the mantra of most in the community. Don't worry too much about your gear. What you don't have, I'm sure there's someone that can/will share theirs with you or if you let us know ahead of time someone can bring a spare whatever.. I borrowed a shotgun the 2 times I shot a pistol/shotgun match. If you ask me the shotgun is the hardest everything. From which one to buy to how to load fast not to mention is the heaviest . It's probably best to not buy one till you get out there and shoot/borrow a few. TRUST ME! Also in NC I know there is: (Pulled from Atl 3 Gun Facebook) WHERE: Durham Pistol and Rifle Club, Mebane, NC LINK: http://tarheel3gun.com/ Keep in tough and I'll try to fill you in on matches as I hear about them. This coming year I'm planning to dive in head first. So I plan on going to as many as I can find within 10 hours of here or so. I'm also Rocky Patel on face book. Rocky

What's a mechanical offset? The sights or scope on an AR set about 2 9/16" above the center of the bore. Straight out the barrel there is no time to for the bullet to rise. I know you realize this, but just to bust your chops a little - "bullets NEVER rise". They start dropping the second they leave the barrel. Barrel has a slight angle up. Is that correct? so bullet is travelling straight out of the barrel but gaining altitude because of the initial angle of the barrel Almost. We're getting there. If the Barrel is parallel with the ground When The Gun Goes Off (thought I'd forego any discussion of the effect of recoil , the bullet comes out of the barrel parallel to the ground. The bullet Never rises. It continues parallel to the ground, and then starts to drop - it Never Rises, relative to the barrel. If you point the barrel up, the bullet will follow that line until it starts to drop. When we look thru a scope, we've mounted it and adjusted it so that we are elevating our bore so the bullet passes thru the point of aim twice, at two different distances. That's where the confusion lies - it appears that the bullet has "gone up", but it didn't - just passed thru the poa twice. I know we're Off Topic here, but you say you love a good discussion. I sure do love a good discussion. And yes. I now understand. Good way of taking everything out of the equation except the barrel and the bullet. It makes it more clear. Your point is very will taken. The bullet is just going straight relative to the barrel angle to the ground . Saying it rises is just misleading. It's not a plane with any wings to create lift. it's essentially a symmetrical rock sorta speak going in the direction it was launched..... For some time before falling to earth. Or hitting your target. And it's not too far off topic. These thought came from my first match. And you gracious people are helping me( and others) understand what it is I experienced that led me to these posts. R Call me sponge Bob. I'll soak it up as much as I can.

What's a mechanical offset? The sights or scope on an AR set about 2 9/16" above the center of the bore. Straight out the barrel there is no time to for the bullet to rise. I know you realize this, but just to bust your chops a little - "bullets NEVER rise". They start dropping the second they leave the barrel. I argued this for years with a (older) good friend who refused to understand this most basic concept. His only arguement was "that is not what the picture on the back of the box of cartridges shows". Thank you for the clarification. Barrel has a slight angle up. Is that correct? so bullet is travelling straight out of the barrel but gaining altitude because of the initial angle of the barrel. Only to lose velocity and start dropping because of gravity and such. Seems to rise but not on it's own. It's just going straight out (Happens to be upward) but up then down. If I seem a little to wordy it's only because I LOVE these conversations and restating helps me and may help others. I can talk shooting all day everyday. There's so much to learn and you guys seem to be the only people who want to hear it and entertain my thoughts. Girlfriend definitely doesn't. And no one else outside the community know anything of what I'm talking about.

Interesting reply. May I ask a beginner question? What's a mechanical offset? Hmmm..................... secondary iron sights? 45 degree offset? The sights or scope on an AR set about 2 9/16" above the center of the bore. On close targets, you must adjust your point of aim to compensate for the "mechanical offset" lest your rounds hit low. Dave Let me see if I understand..Aim approx 2 9/16 above where you normally would. Straight out the barrel there is no time to for the bullet to rise. So when it leaves the barrel it's approx 2 9/16 low from the start. If the bullet were to travel eventually at 100 yards it would make it up there but initially the mechanical offset, is what it is. The distance between the center of the bore and the sight. Thanks. Seems so logical to have eluded me till now. The buzzer has a tendency to initiate brain lock up. Love to hear if you liked the Old world reserve.. I re-posted this here because it started to veer off the accessories topic. Thought it would be more appropriate in this forum. R

Let me say again how much I appreciate everyone weighing in. Insight like this will help all new shooters move towards their potential faster than trial and error.. Thank you.

The edge is one of my favorites. Also his "olde world reserve" is towards the top of my list. Would be cool to see if MR. Rocky Patel would consider supporting the shooting community. I'd drag his banner around and some cigars to every match I go to and hand them out and hang the banner somewhere. Even if I had to wear it like a cape. Plus a RP logo would be so cool on my jersey.. or cape.

Interesting reply. May I ask a beginner question? What's a mechanical offset? Hmmm..................... secondary iron sights? 45 degree offset?

I paraphrased it a bit for you. You're fortunate in that you have at least figured this out early. It's great advice, and in my opinion, this isn't just advice for the new shooter either. I've seen a lot of shooters at both local and major matches that have the fanciest pieces of gear, the newest gadgets that can be bolted to picatinny, scopes with 15 different illumination settings, reticles w/ hold-overs, hold-unders, etc. But gear is no replacement for practice and just knowing how to shoot. Good luck w/ your second match! Thanks. I'm definitely in for the long haul. This is just the start. Can't wait to see my progress through this next year. Thanks for the luck. Will need it too...

Let me first start by telling you why i'm writing this. I spent months researching the AR. Never had any real experience with one but wanted to get into 3-gun. I started to get obsessed with the build and absolutely all the right parts. Weight, length, This part over that part. Front heavy, rear heavy. etc. You hear people say just get an AR and go shoot a few matches before worrying about exactly the right parts and what to buy etc... I'm one of those that analyzes everything to the infinite degree. (job hazard in IT)(Girlfriend hates it too)(She never wants to hear my analysis of what she did wrong)(go figure) Shot my first match at the Creekside Tactical Rifle Match this past Saturday. Use my 16" lightweight with 15" Midwest Industries SS gen2 free float,and A2 stock. Was trying to get some balance. Tried the Magpul CTR but it was front heavy. With the A2(I just happen to have) it was more balanced. I also learned or maybe its my opinion. The balance should be between the grip and my support hand. Doesn't really seem that the stock has as much to do with balance as I thought. When I got home I put the Magpul CTR stock back on and shouldered the rifle. Actually not bad if you are holding the gun properly. Not too much difference between the a2 and CTR. Slight difference. I now like the CTR better. (Just happen to also be what I had at home) What I realized: - The weight make little difference to me. Heavy or light. My problem is "That's was my first rifle match". LIghter or heavier would have made absolutely no difference. - So much to learn before little things like weight will make any difference. I'm assuming it's not so heavy that your arms and shoulders are not sore from just using it. Other than that any rifle is fine just about. Things to practice with any rifle:(Things I learned I need to work on from that match) - Learn proper shooting stances. Get good with several. Make sure you can hold zero in those stance as best you can. Get STEADY! be prepared for crazy shit. Shooting while the rifle is in a hanging noose. Shooting keeping the gun at a 90 degree to the ground. Beware of the 90 on a table and your bolt catch button. Had issues with my rifle turning into a bolt action after every shot on that table. Had to charge it every shot. Fellow shooters diagnosed it as, i had pressure on the button slowing the bolt carrier down. Thus not cycling like it should. I think a BAD lever could be even worse. - Learn the game and the method of scoring. 1 in A or 2 anywhere. Or B zone, C zone, D zone = added time. It makes a difference. Learn the game. - Get reloads under control with good form. - Figure out what to do with your support hand. Where to grip . How to grip, etc. Find what works best for YOUR follow up shots. - OH.... A BIG ONE FOR ME: Learn your hold overs. At all distances. You know how almost impossible it was for me to hit a small 3 inch by 3 inch square at like 2 feet?? While zeroed at 100. Holy shit almost impossible unless you were willing to take 10 shots to walk it in there.. 9 of which was in the no shoot zone.. that hurt. But I learned where to hold it right there in the match.. Obviously I wasn't in the running for the championship. So I used the match to further my research. Hurt my score but helped my game. I think the round count was like 130-150 or so. I went through over 250 rounds. Sometimes sending lead downrange just to FEEEL more. Lots of learning. And a few gracious Re-shoots from very cool ROs that knew this was my first match. And buying a mulligan for my worst stage. (Long distance) Bottom line, forget the gun. Get an AR. Learn the above stuff first(I'm sure there's a million more things but that was hit home for me on that first match). Worry about the gun later. I could have borrowed a top shooters rifle all decked out and it have made ZERO difference. Unless someone has smart bullets and the rifle came with a top shooter that looks like me. Thanks guys for care listening to my brain dumps... It also helps me remember if I can share what I learned. Please correct me if anything is off or you have another opinion. Love to hear anyones input. Rocky

Shot my first match at the Creekside Tactical Rifle Match this past Saturday. Use my 16" lightweight with 15" Midwest Industries SS gen2 free float,and A2 stock. Was trying to get some balance. Tried the Magpul CTR but it was front heavy. With the A2(I just happen to have) it was more balanced. What I realized: - The weight make little difference to me. Heavy or light. My problem is "That's was my first rifle match". LIghter or heavier would have made absolutely no difference. - So much to learn before little things like weight will make any difference. I'm assuming it's not so heavy that your arms and shoulders are not sore from just using it. Other than that any rifle is fine just about. Things to practice with any rifle:(Things I learned I need to work on from that match) - Learn proper shooting stances. Get good with several. Make sure you can hold zero in those stance as best you can. Get STEADY! be prepared for crazy shit. Shooting while the rilfe is in a hanging noose. Shooting keeping the gun at a 90 degree to the ground. Beware of the 90 on a table and your bolt catch button. Had issues with my rifle turning into a bolt action after every shot on that table. Had to charge it every shot. Fellow shooters diagnosed it as, i had pressure on the button slowing the bolt carrier down. Thus not cycling like it should. I think a BAD lever could be even worse. - Learn the game and the method of scoring. 1 in A or 2 anywhere. Or B zone, C zone, D zone = added time. It makes a difference. Learn the game. - Get reloads under control with good form. - Figure out what to do with your support hand. Where to grip . How to grip, etc. Find what works best for YOUR follow up shots. - OH.... A BIG ONE FOR ME: Learn your hold overs. At all distances. You know how almost impossible it was for me to hit a small 3 inch by 3 inch square at like 2 feet?? While zeroed at 100. Holy shit almost impossible unless you were willing to take 10 shots to walk it in there.. 9 of which was in the no shoot zone.. that hurt. But I learned where to hold it right there in the match.. Obviously I wasn't in the running for the championship. So I used the match to further my research. Hurt my score but helped my game. I think the round count was like 130-150 or so. I went through over 250 rounds. Sometimes sending lead downrange just to FEEEL more. Lots of learning. And a few gracious Re-shoots from very cool ROs that knew this was my first match. And buying a mulligan for my worst stage. (Long distance) Bottom line, forget the gun. Get an AR. Learn the above stuff first(I'm sure there's a million more things but that was hit home for me on that first match). Worry about the gun later. I could have borrowed a top shooters rifle all decked out and it have made ZERO difference. Unless someone has smart bullets. Thanks guys for all the advise and listening to my brain dumps... It also helps me remember if I can share what I learned. Rocky

My JP15 with an 18 inch Light Weight contour JP barrel is my favorite AR of all time. It shoots as good as my heavy barrel Krieger precision gun at a lot less weight. Pat Some difference in recoil i'm assuming right? Does it effect your time at all? Its a very soft kicking gun. Of course that is thanks to the great SJC titan comp. I had a very good stage last year in Texas on the long range stage so the lighter barrel is not hurting me at all. Pat Nice to know. Also, I've got a friend giving me a Titan to try. Looking forward to seeing how well it works. I've read sooooooo many good posts about the SJC. Excited to try one.

My JP15 with an 18 inch Light Weight contour JP barrel is my favorite AR of all time. It shoots as good as my heavy barrel Krieger precision gun at a lot less weight. Pat Some difference in recoil i'm assuming right? Does it effect your time at all?

The more I think about what you said, " if i remove my support hand nothing changes, the muzzle doesnt dip nor do i need to change anything in the way i support the gun." It make so much sense. Thanks.

Thank you for your insight.. It's good to hear this from a 5000+ post veteran. Also kinda validates a portion of my theory on the number of posts someone has.. I see a pattern..... High numbers are good. R R

It's amazing to see how many opinions we have here. Almost one of each! What I get out of this is: 1. Lots of opinions 2. but each has a PERSONAL REASON behind it. 3. Take in to account all opinions, weight out what seems right for you. 4. Try a few to make you own opinions. Because no one can give you, your own opinions. Which you will need for step 5. 5. Pick the one you like from number 4. Bada Bing! You got YOUR answer.. Or my answer, since I asked the question. Once again thanks everyone for all the great input..

You're the one that's going to make me kick myself in the ass for sending back the heavy one. May just end up with one of each till I figure it out. Honestly by the time the heavy one went back it wasn't so heavy anymore. For the week or 2 that I had the heavy barrel, I put it all together and ran dry fire drills quite a bit. Kinda got used to it. Then officially found out they sent me the wrong barrel and sent it back on principle alone. I did make the decision to buy a med contour at the time and thought it was my best choice. So I figure I should at least run what I intended to first, then try something different if that does not work out. But when I sent it back I did have that thought. Maybe I could get used to it......

That a good point. I had shoulder surgery last April.

Barrel is going back and the medium is coming. we'll see how it goes. Thanks for everyone's input.

Figured out they sent me their heavy barrel on accident.. I don't have to be He-Man after all.... R

That's good info. I can use 8 as a reference point for now, thanks..

Introducing the ICE Arms Medium weight 18 inch 416 Stainless Steel Rifle Length Gas Match Barrel. Barrel Specs: - 416R Steel with 1:8 twist - .750 at the gas block - Chambered 5.56 NATO - Rifle Gas Length - Medium Weight - Gas Port Size .100 - 2.1 lbs And here's the Heavy barrel: ICE Arms 18 inch 416R Stainless Steel Heavy Contour Barrel 1:8 Twist Description:Introducing the ICE Arms 18 inch 416R Stainless Steel Heavy Weight Match Barrel. Barrel Specs: - 416R Steel with 1:8 twist - .750 at the gas block - Chambered 5.56 NATO - Mid Length - Gas Port Size .082 - 2.4 lbs HOW can that be heavier than the medium? Is it made of tungsten?

Interesting how different everyone is. The reason I asked is that I just recently go into the world of rifles . Picked up a lightweight PSA 16 middy... That's very light.. Although not much to compare it to. Then I sorta pieced together another 16" Carbine length not lightweight. Medium I guess. It is heavier.. I like the lightweight PSA........ When I shot both the lighter one jumps more not much but more... So then I start researching 3 gun configs. That's where I ultimately want to end up. There's just much variance in preference but after hundreds of Google and YouTube university I see a theme(At least more google and youtube classes keep mentioning ). 18" Rifle length. Ah, I see, longer gas tube should be better for recoil and longer barrel = longer sight radius + heavier barrel (obviously it longer, more metal) is good for accuracy and recoil, I guess. So I decided to buy a 18" rifle length SS Match barrel Meduim weight 1x8. So excited to get the box in the mail. First thing I noticed was it was heavy. Hmm.. Took out the nice new barrel and did notice, this thing is MUCH heavier than my lightweight and other 16" So I decided I gotta go light on the freefloat.. Did my research and settled in Midwest Industries Gen2 SS....15" . I have long arms. It was metal and lighter than most and priced right. Slapped both barrel and free float on an existing upper pieced together the rest. Magpul CTR and grip, nothing special. But now the problem The whole thing seem so heavy. Or is it just me. Put a Comp on the end and Burris MTAC on and Hmmmmm..... Are they serious? Do all these guys who look to be running aroung the 3 gun stage like spider monkeys have these heavy monsters? Can't be! Or can it? So I decided to take my question to the masses. What is the weight and length of your 3 gun rifle? And maybe some comment on how you decided on your config. I'll weight my monster and post it too. Honestly I think I ordered the 18" SS R-Length medium barrel form ICE arms (Stop laughing, it was affordable and available). But look at the picture for both their medium 18" SS and Heavy 18" SS. Why does the Heavy barrel look to be contoured and thinner than the pic for the medium 18" barrel? Logic tells me that the meduim looks to be more metal, thicker and no contouring so it's gotta be heavier. did they get the pics and descriptions mixed up or is it just me? I bought and received the one they say is the medium weight. Does it look right to you? Just wondering. It's all a learning process for me. R

Just wondering if people prefer a little weight on the barrel or to handle recoil or try to get it as light as possible? Like does everyone run to get the lightest free float or do some like a free float with some kinda weight?? What are your thoughts on weight out front of the rifle... Sorry... Not even sure I asked this right..