steve123

If you are watching the front sight while you transition between targets...that will be slow. You will want to see the front sight as you call your shot on your current target, once you see that...THEN snap your eyes to a SPOT on the next target. The eyes will get there quicker than the gun. Be sure to pick a SPOT on the target. Once the gun starts to show up, bring your vision back to a razor sharp focus on the front sight again. Next time I go out I'll try to identify exactly what I am doing. Things are different from 6 years ago when I used to compete a lot. I've had to start wearing reading glasses when I shoot pistol with irons. So now my eyes are focused on the front sight and everything else is blurry. Whats the solution to this problem? My solution to this problem was to get a new prescription from a fellow shooter (optometrist). New glasses for shooting that have the dominant eye focused on the front sight and the non dominant focused at 25 yards out (infinity). By the way, this is a very common fix for us folks over 50. I got my new glasses last December. It took a few days of dry fire and one match to get used to it. Now, I focus on the A zone of a target, the buzzer goes off, I draw and bring the gun up and the front sight is crystal clear in front of the A zone. Try it, you'll like it. Check it out in the equipment section of the forum and you'll find others who concur with this solution. Joe Thanks Joe! I'll go look.

Thanks for the advice Steve. Where do I buy your book?

If you are watching the front sight while you transition between targets...that will be slow. You will want to see the front sight as you call your shot on your current target, once you see that...THEN snap your eyes to a SPOT on the next target. The eyes will get there quicker than the gun. Be sure to pick a SPOT on the target. Once the gun starts to show up, bring your vision back to a razor sharp focus on the front sight again. Next time I go out I'll try to identify exactly what I am doing. Things are different from 6 years ago when I used to compete a lot. I've had to start wearing reading glasses when I shoot pistol with irons. So now my eyes are focused on the front sight and everything else is blurry. Whats the solution to this problem?

Yes I understand. There were days,(still are in other shooting disciplines) that I just packed up and went home. Sometimes things just aren't working out that day. No use in wasting ammo. Duly noted with the dry fire. Still no one has answered my question. When you guys are shooting fast and you happen to have a dud, do you pull the pistol down from recoil subconsciously or do you have perfect follow through? Meaning the pistol remains motionless. Thanks for all your help guys. Steve, What you see when you're shooting fast and the muzzle dips because the gun went "click" instead of "bang" is probably not a flinch response. It's more of a subconcious need translating to a concious effort to attempt to control the recoil and get back on target faster. Saul Kirsch (Thinking Practical Shooting) or Brian Enos talk about it in their book. I can't remember which author (maybe both). Either way, it's pretty normal and not something to be overly concerned with. When a shooter starts advancing in their skills set it happens. Fantastic! Phew,I'm not crazy then. Thanks !

It is perfectly fine, even normal, to be pushing the gun back on target after the bang. This isn't so much controlling recoil as it is getting the gun back on target quickly. Now, if the gun is pushed *prior* to the bang, then that is obviously a bad thing and will result typically in low shots. In other shooting disciplines (i.e. precision shooting) where the time limits are much more liberal, you tend not to see the push after the bang. Generally, there's no need for it. In fact, most shooters from this realm are completely perplexed when you try to explain to them the idea of pushing the gun back on target. Its just not something they do. Grunt Thanks Grunt. Ok I'm fine then. Yes, if I'm shooting slow then I follow through. I have some Olympic air pistols I shoot so with them it's different than how I shoot combat pistol at speed.

Yes I understand. There were days,(still are in other shooting disciplines) that I just packed up and went home. Sometimes things just aren't working out that day. No use in wasting ammo. Duly noted with the dry fire. Still no one has answered my question. When you guys are shooting fast and you happen to have a dud, do you pull the pistol down from recoil subconsciously or do you have perfect follow through? Meaning the pistol remains motionless. Thanks for all your help guys.

I imagine that if I had a official MGM plate rack to practice on and a bunch of other regulation steel at a local venue, like a real shooting range, I would have been able to improve more than I did. See, I think my first premise is 90% of what my problem was. 5000 rounds is not a large enough quantity of practice to achieve a master level. Given that I do have a certain amount of natural shooting ability I was able to go from C to A with relative ease. Going from A to master is another story. Mega practice and probably some mentoring.

Makes sense.

Actually for the present I have no goals. Last Sunday was the first pistol match I've shot in a year. Nothings changed. Still D and C shooters after all these years are going to our local match's. I still probably won the match,even with a procedural. Haven't got the results yet. My question to begin with was how did the pro's break through to the next level? Time for me to read a book on the subject. Maybe starting there would be best.

Thanks Mark, I see what you are saying. Being more efficient with time is a definite fault of mine too. Seems like I'm going fast but obviously not in comparison to more experienced shooters. The more I consider all this info I'm getting from everybody the more I realize I really need professional training to point out what I'm doing wrong and push me in the right direction. Oh and a boat load of ammo as well.

That's an excellent idea! Thanks

I use the modified Weaver stance. Like if one were to get into a fighting stance with knees slightly bent and leaning forward a tad. I use the standard IPSC type grip. It is a weak area for me. I find myself gripping more with my strong hand when I know it should be the opposite. Also I don't have as much range in my wrist as most folks. I can't cock my wrist down as far. It's uncomfortable for me. For the most part I'd be watching the front site. You know how it is when you start off a stage watching the front site and you're hitting stuff then you relax some, take things for granted and start screwing up.

Thanks Grunt for taking the time to write all that out. If I were to add up all the centerfire pistol rounds I've ever shot I doubt I've fired more than 60,000 all together. So I bet that's most of the problem. Not enough trigger time. For practicing, do you guys think getting one of those Tactical Solutions 22lr conversions for my STI would help make me faster or is the money better spent on components ? Also can someone please answer my question from a few posts up on recoil control and follow through? What classification are you so I can get some perspective here. Thanks

That's encouraging! Thanks for the quotes as well.

Steve, I'm only a B shooter so feel free to ignore these thoughts: 1. I don't see any mention of dry firing? 2. Seems like you shoot 5,000 rounds in three months before a match - don't see anything about practicing the other nine months? 3. You mention the STi Edge improved your game - other equipment improvements could possibly improve your level even more?? 4. You don't mention where you're losing your points - draw time? 2nd shot? accuracy? splits? reloads? You can self analyze which aspect of the sport you should concentrate on by comparing your scores/ times with those of Master level shooters. Just a thought - good luck with it. Wish I had that problem - I'll probably never make A level:(( Jack I better clarify that I preferred steel rather than USPSA. So I never shot any big USPSA match's. 1. At the time I was doing some dry fire but mostly at the beep trying to establish a faster and more consistent draw. It turned out to be a strong point for me. I won the fast draw stage where there was a single tombstone shaped steel on both sides crossing each other, 2-3 times over the years while in B and A. Yes the bulk of the practice was just prior to the AHWS but I was shooting combat pistol matches once a month the whole year. I had a Safariland race style holster. It worked well till the last year I went which was the same year those new holsters came out that didn't require the pistol to be lifted up clear of the muzzle cover. Can't remember the name of them. Definitely faster! I got my clock cleaned that year. I was equally good on the plate racks as the field stages where the plates were spread out. I just couldn't achieve that next level. The fastest I could do a plate rack with 6 plates from the holster was 3.5 seconds. More like 4 seconds on average. For reference the GM's were doing it in 2.5-3 seconds. I'm talking about with a limited gun too. In this particular type of match if you had a high cap and had to reload you had already lost,LOL. I need a pro to tell me how they broke through to the next level. What the defining factors were.

Can you expound a little more on your last sentence please. Thanks

I know exactly what you mean. Maybe I should word it a little differently. Can I achieve master level with practicing 10,000 rounds a year, 20,000 rounds.... or practicing twice a week,3 times a week, nearly every day ? What does it take?

Thanks for responding Flexmoney! I think I hit well? Meaning that one of my stronger points would be accuracy rather than being super speedy. I'm much better on steel than paper. Yes I primarily put my concentration on the front site. One of the things I just recently noticed I could be doing wrong is I unconsciously try to compensate for recoil by pushing the gun back down during recoil. I got one of those stainless steel tumbling set ups a while back and apparently didn't let a batch of the brass dry long enough. loaded a bunch of 40's and am having some duds which has brought attention to my habit of pushing the gun back down. Yes I would like to learn to do whatever it is the pro's do. If that means retraining my self then so be it. So do you pro's unconsciously try to compensate for recoil? Or do you have perfect follow through even when shooting your fastest?

Hi, This is my first post here in Brians forums. I'm glad I found this place! I've been mostly into rifle shooting for the last 7-8 years, although pistol shooting was a passion of mine for many years. Maybe I can get some long unanswered questions about pistol shooting resolved. Some background- I started combat style pistol shooting way back in the late 80's. Mostly at my local venues in Northern AZ. Within a few years of starting I began winning most of these matches. The problem at the time was that this group of shooters were D and C level shooters so I wasn't pressed to improve my abilities. So I stayed at what I'd consider a low B level shooter for a few more years. I was never officially classified that I can remember as I had only gone down to Phoenix occasionally. Then I decided,(mid 90's) it would be fun to try the American Handgunner World Shootoff. This was my first exposure to a world class event and the top GM shooters. I was impressed at the time how fast they were but was even more impressed as the years went by because I was gradually realizing how hard it is to achieve that top level of performance. The first year at the AHWS I got 2cnd in unclassified. I had started practicing a few months in advance and shot a total of maybe 1000 rounds on steel during this practice. 2cnd year I got put into B class but got DQ'd from an AD. I was shooting well and had practiced with around 2000 rounds. 3rd year I practiced with 3000 rounds, months previously and won B class. That new STI Edge helped a lot. 4th year I got put into A and was lucky to finish in the top 3/4's. It went on like this for another 3-4 years even though I practiced with 5000 or more rounds within 3 months previous to the match. I had hit a wall! It didn't seem to matter how many rounds I shot in practice I could not find any more improvement. If I tried to speed up I'd start missing. Can't miss fast enough to win,can you? LOL Being discouraged with pistol and wanting to try other things I got into trackdays with sport bikes and dune riding quads with my sons till a few years ago. I recently went to a local pistol match and introduced a new friend to the sport. My interest is rekindled again. So my question is to the Masters. Do I have to put 40-50 thousand rounds down the barrel a year to get in your realm of ability level or is there any short cuts? How do I get past this wall?