[It's Aaaaliiiiiiiive!]

Regarding the sights ... I thought I'd add ... for those who weren't already aware ... these Winchester fiber-optics simply fit right over the rib and have small screws along one sight that you simply tighten with an allen wrench to secure to the rib ... very simple installation.

[It's Aaaaliiiiiiiive!]

I don't think I'll be cuttin' 'er down to 21"

Fiber-optic turkey sights from Winchester (green rear, red front):

Spooky-gun:

I tried out the tube (SRM from Brownells) ... holds 9.

I have no clue if my sights are anywhere near "on" ... we'll see ... just as soon as I can figure out where to get some low-recoil slugs for a decent price.

Man that sucker's heavy!

She's goin' to the trap range this Thursday.

I know ... I know ... I probably look like a dumb-@$$ amateur ... I don't care ... for now, I think it's very cool.

[Which Shotgun for Open?]

I am bran new to all this 3-gun stuff ... but, I must say I'm surprised that the USPSA deemed box-mag shotguns as "speed-loading" and, therefore Open.

Doubtless, I don't know any of the details, but, if they were Limited, I have to believe at least one of the big four woulda built one. If for nothing else, the police and military ... or does all of the military use that USAS-12? Now that that's an Open-only deal, I would guess the market's a lot smaller and the possibility of one of the big four building one is lower.

The first time I saw the Siaga (sp?), I immediately thought it would be a neat "practical" shotgun ... I just don't know anything about the manufacturer and haven't seen anyone use it so I don't trust it.

I guess I'm a little surprised that such a gun isn't more popular ... even marketed to home-defense purchasers.

My one regret to my choice of SX2 (haven't even shot it yet) is that I coulda got a Benelli with that AR-style grip ... I think that'd've been neat.

[Freakin' out 'bout a SX2]

Thanks for the reassurance gentlemen!

My SX2 arrived, on schedule, Friday ... man what a nice stock on that thing! I really didn't expect it to look that nice.

The sights I ordered for it were there when I got home as well.

I expect the tube to arrive sometime this week so, in no time, it'll look like a "practical" shotgun ... sorta. I'll bring it to the trap shoot this Thursday to try it out so I expect a lot of looks and criticism (ex. "You gotta take them sights off there if you wanna hit anything"). Good thing I suck already or I'd never hear the end of it.

They're a good bunch of guys so, at some point, I might even be able to get 'em to pull a round as fast as I can shoot at 'em (note, I said "shoot at 'em" not simply "shoot 'em" )

[Freakin' out 'bout a SX2]

I'm already more than broke ... I'll be sending a check to Benny this week for a new AR. So, I planned on taking care of the shotgun myself.

Upon checking with my dealer, who couldn't find anyone with a SX2 Practical, I called Winchester and asked if they made any ... she said they shipped "a few" in December and the next shipment is due in October. After some figurin', I ordered the clamp-on turkey sights from Winchester and had my dealer order me a new SX2 3" Field (I'm a sucker for walnut) ... it'll be here tomorrow ... TOO LATE TO CHANGE.

So I'm lookin' around for my accessories. I think I need the, apparently, only SX2 mag-tube from Brownells ... the SRM Performance Products BRN-EXT (for the Browning, but it says it'll fit an SX2 ... that's one on me ... but, it makes sense know that I think of it).

I'm not worried about the arm-carrier ... it sounds like 3gungear is the way to go there. Although, I'm concerned about the velcro side-saddle ... is the velcro glued to the receiver ... or how does that attach ... I gotta believe that glue is worthless when it's warm. Or is it just a strap or something ... would that strap stay clear of the action ... I'm sure it's designed to ... but does it?

Anyhow, while lookin' around for what might be available for my new SX2, I check out Briley and I see this:

For shotguns used in IPSC matches, which have a specific barrel length, only flush mount chokes are used. The barrel is cut at 22 inches directly over the closest rib post. For extended chokes, the barrel will have to be much shorter than 22 inches.

WHAT?!

I just ordered a 26" SX2 and had no plans of cutting the bbl (although, at some point, it sounds like that might be a good idea ... when I can afford to have a 'smith do it right).

And what's with all this choke stuff and forcing cone work? The girl at Winchester said I could shoot slugs through the back-bored bbl using IC or M ... which is what I'd prefer to use for shot ... so I thought that'd work fine. But what's wrong with the stock forcing cone?

Anyhow, I did peek around and I realize that some of these topics are covered ... over and over again ... so why should I be any different?

Seriously, I'm figurin' that there's other 3-gun rulebooks which might restrict max bbl length to 22" ... but, it's my understanding that USPSA has no such restriction ... so what's with the Briley comment?

While I'm at it, how does anyone like the bandoleer? Looks like a good idea to me. And anyone try that Slide-Loc-2-Pac? What about the fore-end carriers?

Which size side-saddle should I get for a 3" SX2? Is the one from 3gungear the way to go for the SX2? Or is there a better option?

Anyone found a better arm-carrier than 3gungear?

I'm sure someone will tell me I shoulda just gone to Benny for the same or less money ... but, the last time I did that it ended up being almost 50% more than I was originally planning to spend ... worth it I'm sure ... but, I gotta stop the bleeding at some point.

Thanks.

[rethinking my iron sight zero for a 6 o'clock hold]

I don't mean to interject stupidity into this discussion.

But, I have seen a Glock with the JP Doublring sights (actually, it was supposed to belong to John, himself, prior to the current owner) ... and, as soon as I read about problems with where to hold and the details of that, I wondered if the Doublring wouldn't be a possible solution.

Two questions on this ...

First, upon reviewing JP's site, I don't see that he offers the front sight (or the pair) for an AR ... just handguns. Does he, in fact, offer them for a rifle ... or are you (kellyn) trying to work with the handgun sights ... and, if so, how'd you get 'em to go on your rifle?

Second, while the Doublring seemed very nice for a handgun, I guess I'm wondering what it'd be like on a rifle shooting at 100yds, 200yds, etc. I would expect that, at longer distances, you might lose the ability to accurately center the target in the front aperture. Then again, I'd expect a typical post-n-notch to be pretty big in front of a 200yds target as well. Any thoughts?

I'm looking to start-up in Tactical, but, if I'm gonna put any special iron sights on, or even not, I'd still be very interested in a resolution to this problem ... beyond adjusting elevation during a string.

[DPMS for 3-gun?]

Oh ya, what's a "gas block"? And why do I need one? Or a new one?

Thanks.

[DPMS for 3-gun?]

OK, I'll buy into the scope thing. I won't even bother with the 3.5-10x50 and I'll see what Benny recommends as far as make and model ... I'm presuming it'll be a 1-4x20 or so.

I'll also buy into the comped tapered bbl instead of the heavy-bbl ... makes sense to me. I'm also pretty sure DMPS offers a 20" tapered-bbl gun so I don't think it'd be "custom" yet.

Again, I'm figurin' I can always throw the JP trigger on at any time so it's just not a priority yet.

Now, keep in mind, I DO NOT want to be thrown into the Open aggregate ... I'm hoping to keep it in Tactical. So, I believe that limits me to a 1x3 comp? I'm thinking some of you may have referred to the big-@$$ comp JP has ... which looks impressive indeed ... but, I believe is only legal for Open. I'm guessing that even a 1x3 comp would probably keep the rifle on target better than a heavy-bbl, but, confirmation wouldn't hurt.

If Benny's listening, don't hold your breath ... I still gotta pay the other 50% when my SV comes so it'll be a while yet. But, I guess if you can offer me a 20" tapered-bbl DMPS with the JP trigger and a decent Tactical-legal comp for close to $1000, I'd be interested ... particularly if I can avoid sales-tax.

BTW, I wasn't trying bait anyone into anything ... I was just curious why "race" guns seemed to be offered at 24". As it is, everyone seems pretty agreeable to 20" and, if there were an issue, I'm sure I'd've heard about it by now. And I'm just too darn lazy to use the search.

Thanks for all the input ... this is great ... I'm feeling much better about where I'm going with this.

[DPMS for 3-gun?]

I'm getting the idea that some of you have had problems with stock AR's.

Anyone had a specific problem with a stock DMPS ... beyond a less-than-perfect trigger?

I don't mean to whine ... but the more I get involved in this sport, the more it seems like nothing but a complete custom gun will do ... and it makes me wonder why some of these so-called "premier" manufacturers can't do things right the first time. Even the SV I've ordered might be, supposedly, no good ... had I not ordered it through JP so they can "tune" it for me ... makes me wonder what the he11 Sandy's doing to it.

I don't mean to discount the advice to go with Benny. It's just when I hear "custom", I see $-signs flying away. Of course, if Benny wants to spell out exactly what's wrong with a stock DPMS, I'm all ears. As it is, I think, aside from the scope, he was pretty ok with what I've got in mind.

Bottom-line is, unless I hear a real bad story about a stock DPMS ... particularly, one DPMS didn't make good on ... that's probably the way I'll go. As it is, DMPS is hosting the MN Section match this year and they're sponsoring a new USPSA club ... not to mention 3-gun challenge and Lord knows what else. Unless I hear otherwise, I gotta believe they'll treat me right.

I appreciate the advice on the technicals ... but, unless I'm mistaken, the DMPS "Panther Bull Twenty" comes with a free-floating handguard. And, I'm presuming that, with a heavy-bbl (sorry, I guess I should have clarified that I was looking exclusively at the heavy-bbl'd models), I really don't need a comp ... DPMS doesn't even list that as an option ... although, other non-heavy-bbl models come with 'em. Also, thanks Erik, I figured if I didn't get the JP trigger right away, it might not be a big deal to get it later and put it on myself.

I guess, mostly, I was lookin' for insight into 20" vs. whatever else. I see a lot of "race" guns listed on websites at 24" and I'm not sure why. Also, if anyone had any, first-hand, bad experience with a stock DMPS. The .308 I shot impressed me greatly ... I saw no reason to look elsewhere ... and I appreciate that DMPS does have a good name in the sport. I also saw a friend's Bushy lock-up tight a few weeks ago ... granted, he didn't know enough to clean it before shooting (he just bought it) ... regardless, seeing that, for whatever reason, doesn't instill (sp?) a great deal of confidence.

As for the scope ... I really hate the idea of selling a VariX-III 3.5-10x50 ($550 new) for, likely, close to $300 just to buy (in effect, trade for) a 1-4x20 or the like. If it came to that, I'd just buy a new scope. Granted, I only saw one 3-gun match ... but, they only used the rifles at 200yds. From experience, on other rifles, I know that 3.5-10x50 will serve me well ... particularly with my eyesight ... or lack-thereof. I'm definately lookin' to get a flat-top and put glass on it. I suppose, if anything, I'm actually in a pretty good position ... I already own the 3.5-10x50 ... so it won't cost me any more (beyond rings) to put it on ... so I can try it and see how it goes. If 3.5 is just too much for any close stuff I might encounter, then I can always do something about it at that point ... I don't need to be A or M right out of the gate. However, if anyone knows of a good way to use iron sights on a flat-top while staying in Tactical, I'd like to hear about it. Maybe HoMeBoY has something for that.

So, any horror stories about DPMS? I'd also like to hear about various rifle stages you've enountered. I would've guessed most would be 100yds+. I'm gettin' the idea there might be some that are much closer to typical pistol stages?

Thanks for all the input!

[DPMS for 3-gun?]

Ok, keep in mind, I know little to nothing about AR's.

I'm thinking about getting into 3-gun.

I don't have squat for money but I'm not gonna buy a mini-14.

If I can get a decent DPMS for close to $1000, that might work.

I'd like to do Tactical. I'm thinking, for most matches, most of the rifle-work will be at longer ranges and I've got a spare 3.5-10x50 Leupold so unless someone's willing to contribute their own funds, that's my optic.

I saw the thing in Front Sight about the 16" and making minor. Knowing my luck, if I got a 16", I'd get chrony'd on a 20 degree day and would fall short. Also, I intend to shoot milsurp exclusively ... so, if anyone has any reason why that's a bad idea, I'd like to hear about it now. At this point, I don't even know about the availability of milsurp. In recent months, I've seen plenty of .308. Is the war making milsurp .223 non-existent?

I'm in MN and I've shot the DPMS .308 and, without trying any others, knowing what little I know, I think it'll definately be a DMPS.

What I'm unsure about is:

- how much more is the JP trigger?

- presuming more long-range-work, would a heavy-bbl be better than a comp'd bbl?

- while it doesn't look like it, does DPMS offer an 18"?

- I read the other "gas system" article ... I'm presuming those aren't heavy-bbl's and, if I got a 16", that's probably what I'd get ... so, I'm presuming recoil wouldn't be an issue?

At this point, I'm leaning towards the 20" heavy-bbl ... JP trigger depending solely on funds ... that .308 I shot had the standard trigger and my group @ 100yds was acceptable IMO. I figure the 20" heavy-bbl will take care of all my recoil issues and give me a little more "play" at longer ranges.

So, any thoughts (aside from "buy an Armalite" or "buy a Bushmaster" or "buy a JP")?

Thanks.

[Safariland & Ghost?]

I just ordered Safariland belt and mag-holders.

I'm intending to use my slide-on's ... Uncle Mikes Kydex for G20 and Hillsman plastic for SS 1911 ... for the time being.

I'm not nearly as worried about those working as I am that I can, someday, buy Ghost holsters for my various pistols (I've had an SV on order since January) that will fit on my Safariland belt ok.

I suppose it's pretty stupid to ask now ... but, even if the answer were "no", I guess I can't say as I'd've done anything differently. BTW, I couldn't bring myself to go Rescomp as they didn't seem to offer the adjustable mag-holders for the G20 and, truth be known, at this point, that was 99% of the reason for ordering this stuff ... Uncle Mikes Universal nylon mag-holders suck @$$.

So, anyone with a Ghost successfully mounted to a Safariland (normal) belt?

Thanks.

[I newbie question about .22]

It's nice to be able to gauge your own skills against others.

Why not post some flyers inviting people to come shoot .22's at your range once a week? You don't have to be a member, or associated with any organization to do that.

[2004 MN]

- April 3-4 @ DPMS (Yes, that DPMS) new shooter orientation and classification match

- August 28-29 @ DPMS MN Section match

[2004 Wisconsin Sectional Championships]

I think I found your application at http://www.uspsa-area5.org/contents.php?id=94.

I'm pretty sure our (MN) Section match is on the same weekend.

[New 646]

Thanks for all the help!

I'm still waitin' on my 646 ... my dealer had a death in the family so that's held things up. Probably be at least a couple more weeks yet.

I'm really not a big revolver guy. I've got a 686, 629, 60, and a Vaquero ... but, everyone's gotta have those ... right?

I understand your points about the 610 being better. I thought about a 610, but I really don't like shooting shorts in a long chamber ... mostly 'cause of the build-up. I think I'm getting a pretty good price in a brand new Ltd Ed 646 and I've been thinking about trying revolver for USPSA and IDPA ... it just seemed like the right thing to do. Even if I could, I don't think I'd change my order now.

When it finally arrives I'll be sure to put all the links and advice to good use.

Hey Dave, what are those "hangers" called? Any idea where I can find 'em? If they make 'em for the 610, I wonder if they'd fit?

For that matter, wouldn't any clip for the 610 fit the 646? I'm not up on the 610 so if it's a beefier cylinder, you only need to say so.

Thanks again.

[New 646]

My dealer is working on getting me one of these ... hopefully I'll get it within a couple weeks. The distributor said they had some in stock, but, my dealer has to go thru a bunch of BS to buy from them (he doesn't normally buy from them).

I'm not looking to go all-out here ... I just want a revo that, at some point, I can use for USPSA and, possibly, IDPA.

This 646 is a 4".

I'm thinkin' a Blade-tech or Hillsman drop-n-offset (if that's not legal for IDPA, I'll cross that bridge when I come to it).

I'm hopin' to get plenty of moon clips with it as I presume they're in short supply. But, anyone know of any combination that would work well ... if any. I've never done the moon thing so I have no clue. All I know is my buddy went through that recently with his 625 and pretty-much everything he bought the first time around was junk and he returned it all. I presume I'm gonna need a good mooner-de-mooner ... would that be special for .40sw?

I don't intend to reload until my 4mo-old is at least 16yrs-old.

Now, presuming I've got the DOH, what can I do about carrying loaded moon clips on my belt for USPSA? I've seen a guy use a Cabela's-type belt with cartridge loops, but, I don't know that .40 belts are plentiful. I've also seen those kinda tin and white-plastic hangers where I think the clips can just ride on 'em ... do they have any kind of retention or is it just gravity? Or am I way off?

I'm in no rush. I intend to send the thing into the PC for a trigger-job and a fiber front sight so I figure that'll eat up a couple months. If all works out, I might give 'er a run sometime this summer.

Thanks for the help.

[Uspsa's Shortcomings]

Greetings Gentlemen!

I'm pretty new to this game, but, this is the sort of discussion I was having with some other folks recently and, as someone new, perhaps I can provide a different perspective.

As I've indicated in the "newbie" area, I've been shooting for a little of 2yrs now and I run an indoor club this winter.

I've shot both IDPA and USPSA.

For whatever reason, I see a lot more "smaller" guns used for IDPA (one guy was using a 3" XD and not for BUG). The IDPA club I've shot at recently uses the same range (in fact, we alternate weeks). They usually allow 2 guns per match. At first, a few of us only shot our BUG for the 2nd gun ... but, as this was limited to 5rds/string, and, for the same money, we could shoot our "big" gun again, many people have now seemed to opt for that.

So long as IPSC has the stigma of NOT being THE self-defense sport and IDPA does, the only reason any current IDPA shooter could have to "move" to USPSA is because they believe they can compete. Also, many IDPA shooters enjoy IDPA as they believe it helps them "train" for a real scenario and that "moving" to USPSA might take away from that.

Aside from a couple equipment rules, using hardcover, and magazine retention, there's just not a whole lot of difference between IDPA and USPSA ... at least, not at the local level.

So, I think the real question is "what does USPSA offer that IDPA doesn't?"

Equipment rules stability? Not hardly. But, then again, what about the 5" 625 for IDPA?

Lower fees? Nope.

More easy-going atmosphere? Uh-uh.

Less expensive factory ammo to compete equally? Except for CDP, nope.

About the only thing I can think of is, with less of a "fun" atmosphere, you're pretty-well guaranteed that your classification is accurate in USPSA ... if that matters to ya. Also, without the 18rds limitation, at least outdoors, bigger stages are more fun. But, I think that's a tough sell considering everything else.

I think the real bottom-line though is, when a newbie shows up to an IDPA match, it just doesn't seem as "intense". Go to a USPSA match and watch a couple STI/SV's perform and you might just pack up your Beretta and go home. Even in the Production division (here we go), with some "tuned" Glocks and XD's performing at a level close to some 1911's, it can be pretty intimidating (although, we don't have a lot of that in my area). If you went to a bowling alley and most everyone was throwing strikes for every frame and you had a hard time breaking 100, how much would you want to "compete"?

We always seem to have trouble getting our weeknight matches done with by "closing time". But, I sure would like to see something where BUG's can compete. I agree that while some guys have no problem carrying a 5" 1911, there's a reason that S&W continues to develop all kinds of 2" lightweight revo's. You shouldn't have to look far to find a debate over the "perfect ccw gun". It wouldn't take much to develop some criteria for 2 or three divisions of BUG so apples can compete against apples. Something like that could be the inroad into USPSA that might bulk-up the membership. But, as I said, the logistics could be a problem.

Anyhow, so long as USPSA could have a division where those at the various "beginner" levels could compete equally (and no, classifications just don't cut it ... dead-last in Ltd-10 is still dead-last ... not first for "D"), there'd be a spot for newbies to come into. As it is, trying to convince all those S&W, Ruger, Beretta, and Sig 9mm owners to come join us is tiring, at best ... getting them to stick with it for a few matches seems even tougher sometimes. "Well, ya know, that gun is fine ... but what you really need is an STI/SV ... or at least a Para".

Ya, anyone can shoot just about any gun in the appropriate division and not care about how competitive they are ... but, I don't see that message being conveyed, convincingly, to newbies. Maybe if we had the "Don't Care" division, that might do it.

YMMV, but, in my area, that's the way I see it.

[No Guns In Madison, Wi?]

I was just perusing my latest Gander Mtn ad and noticed a little blurb about how "due to ordinances no guns are available in Madison, WI".

Anyone in or near Madison (formerly known as Madtown, but, obviously, no more)?

What's the deal there? Did they actually pass a law banning all guns? Or just sales of guns?

Please tell me I'm off my rocker. Or, at least, Gander Mtn is.

[Gun Purchase Advice Sought - Ipsc & Idpa Legal]

Wow!

Do you handload/reload .45acp? Factory ammo for .45acp is significantly more expensive than .40sw.

I don't know for sure, but, I don't know why not ... I think the Para Ord P16.40 is legal for CDP (at least if you only load 10rds).

IDPA doesn't have major/minor, but, it sounds like you're pretty serious about this and so you'll probably want to be major in USPSA so you'll want, at least, .40sw.

Many shooters get the Para P16.40 if they don't care to spend $2000+ for an STI/SV. I've recently seen a blued, brand new P16.40 for $800. There are lots of aftermarket parts for it in case you want to ditch IDPA ... at least for the P16.40.

For a single-stack 1911, I'd say "save your pennies". Search around and you'll probably find plenty of "external extractor" (one way or the other) threads. I've owned several 1911's. IMO, there's two points for problems. The extractor and the feed ramp. STI and SVI solve the feed-ramp problem with a ramped bbl. I'm not sure what models they have with external extractors, but, I'd look at either of them before a Wilson or Baer. And, get it in a .40sw. Otherwise, Para's coming out, supposedly, this February, with their PXT which is single-stack .45 with a ramped bbl AND an external extractor. If you don't buy the feed-ramp thing, Sig's coming out with their GSR with an external extractor. S&W also has a nice 1911 with an external extractor ... I think the Para's the same price though ... and you might have to replace the front sight.

As you're not considering just getting 2 guns, I'm presuming you'd like to keep things a little reasonable and the gun is intended to last you a while.

I think, for the money, the Para P16.40 is tough to beat.

Does IDPA CDP only allow single-stack 1911's? Otherwise, why are you considering only single-stacks?

Good luck.

[Which Ar?]

Supporting Erik's comment, DPMS has purchased a range near St. Cloud, MN and will be hosting our MN Section match this summer.

FWIW, I shot a DPMS .308 last Fall and it was AWESOME! As soon as I recover from my SV investment, that's next.

[Big League Exposure For Practical Shooting?]

I just had a discussion ... sorta ... about this yesterday.

If I have any goal with respect to guns, it's to do my part in making handgun shooting about as popular, feared, and ignored as bowling.

The way I see it, our guns are under constant attack. I know there's a lot of people who think that's just NRA propoganda. But, the Klinton '94 hi-cap ban still exists.

And, with public hunting land disappearing and shooting ranges getting forced out by suburbanites, there's simply going to be less and less shooters every year.

Not that it'll solve all our problems, but, maybe if people thought of shooting the way they do of bowling, maybe all the fence-sitters would think twice before voting for an anti-2nd candidate.

Anyhow, what else ya gonna do?

Granted, making shooting more popular WILL draw unwanted participants as well as unwanted attention (in some cases). Not to mention, the more shooters there are, the higher the odds are of having an accident. But, as it is, there's nothing preventing ANYONE, whether we like their kind or not, from joining us. Chances are, you can look around at your next match and find one or two you could do without.

The bottom line is, if a guy's lucky enough to own a couple thousand acres of prime hunting land, he can either keep it to himself and enjoy ... or, see to it that it always remains hunting land and not "resorts" ... maybe by creating a club ... maybe by leaving it to DU or the like.

I'm pretty confident I'll be able to shoot until I'm physically unable. But, I intend to introduce my boy to the sport and I'm not so sure he'll be able to do it as long as he'd like.

[Just Curious]

For a small amount of money you can have plugs custom molded on your ear canal.

Mine are transparent resin, and you'd never tell I'm wearing them, if not for a small rope connecting them behind my neck.

How much money is a "small amount"?

I might be interested.

[What Do You Shoot???]

Ltd-10 - SA 1911-A1 .45; Glock 20 .40; waiting on SV Ltd (pls, no more pics PistolPete ... at least until I get mine )

Prod/SSP - Sig P226

Ltd - same SV as Ltd-10 once I figure out how to pull the trigger only when my sights are on the target

[Which Would You Rather? Svi Or Sti?]

I just recently went through that process ... Para (Dawson), STI (Dawson), or SV (JP).

I got to shoot another guy's SV ... very similar to what I wanted (ext dust cover Ltd).

The prices I was lookin' at was like:

$1100 (stainless Para)

$2100 (stainless STI Edge)

$2000 (stainless SV Ltd)

The Para and STI were priced over the phone with Dawson ... they might not be right on the money (no pun intended) as I'm going from memory, but, basically I was very interested in the STI for around $1600 until I found out it was blued and when I heard the price for the stainless STI my jaw dropped 'cause I thought the STI's were supposed to be significanlty less expensive than the SV's.

Anyhow, as I live about 10mi from JP, considering the price difference, the fact that I can go knock on JP's door if anything goes wrong, and everything else, I decided to go with the SV. If JP sold STI's, I might've put more thought into an STI.

But, for a while there, I was very close to gettin' the Para and a few cases of ammo.

As it is, I'm supposed to get the SV sometime in mid-February.

In the end, I'd recommend to anyone to actually call a dealer and price 'em out ... apples-to-apples. Once you know the EXACT prices for your options, then you can worry about if one's REALLY worth more. Not that I'm any expert, but, that's what I seen.

If I had the money, I'd like to buy one of each.

[Intro]

Hi, Deuce. If you are who I think you are, I've got almost all of the matches Eric and I used in the Burnsville Winter League (about 6 years!). No charge!

Interested?

Thanks for the offer but BV's bays are significantly wider than AF. Last Friday we had a classifier CM99-4 with 8 targets in a row with 9" between and we really didn't have any room to spare. I've probably got a measurement somewhere, but, without going to too much effort, based on CM99-4, I'd say we've got about 20ft wide to work with ... maybe an extra couple feet on both sides ... but we need that to keep from shooting the walls.

If you've got some real skinny ones, ya, I'm interested. But, like me, I'm guessing you've used all the real estate you've got.

I'd like to shoot BV but my wife's working 7-7 every Wed & Thu into the foreseeable future ... that's why AF is Fridays. Anyhow, BV a heckuva drive for me too. Thanksgiving worked out ... apparently for quite a few people.

So, have you shot at AF with us yet? Eric was there last Friday.

We only had 15 the first match and 27 last Friday ... we got done by around 8:00 last Friday. We've got plenty of room ... despite the width of the bays.